QB or not QB

I think there's less than a 1% chance the Bears aren't drafting a QB at #1, and <5% chance it won't be Caleb Williams.
 
If the Bears don't take Caleb, I would 100% expect the Commanders to take him. I highly doubt Kliff dislikes Caleb, and I think that would more than assuage any concerns they may have about him. Add to that the hometown aspect, I am pretty sure it would be impossible to pass on. However I agree with Boone, likelihood is really high the Bears take Caleb.
 
Kevin Durant is a Washington fan. In the event the team drafts Jayden Daniels, do you think he would mind if I called him The Slim Reaper?
 
It's amazing. A couple of months ago I thought the pick was going to be Maye 100%.

Then a couple of weeks ago I thought it would be Daniels.

Now, McCarthy is part of the discussion in the top 5-10.

Must say that Peters has managed to control leaks - there is precious little information coming out of the team about the pick.
 
Bulldog said:
It's amazing. A couple of months ago I thought the pick was going to be Maye 100%.

Then a couple of weeks ago I thought it would be Daniels.

Now, McCarthy is part of the discussion in the top 5-10.

Must say that Peters has managed to control leaks - there is precious little information coming out of the team about the pick.
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Both Bram and Keim have said out loud they've heard absolutely nothing in any way which would have them believe the team is leaning in any direction.

I personally still think the pick is Maye, I think it's always been Maye, and I think literally 100% of the swirl is media driven because they have to talk about something. But I guarantee you Peters is not listening to Mel Kiper or Thor Freaking Idiotic Moronic "MaliK Willis is the best QB and the league messed up not drafting him" Nystrom.

They're doing their diligence, going through the process. They're saying nothing to anybody. The media is running with whatever they want to, and it's all meaningless.

I'm expecting them to pick Maye.
I'll raise an eyebrow if they pick Daniels, because I really don't think he fits what they want to do. It's only one eyebrow because I will easily concede Daniels is a heck of a prospect and my gut on what they want to do offensively was wrong. I think he's a heck of a talent.
I'll raise both eyebrows if they pick McCarthy at #2.
I'll have a look of deep intrigue if they trade out of #2, with an assumption they will pick a QB a few picks later.
If they pick anybody other than Maye, Daniels or McCarthy at 2, I'm going to have a toddler style tantrum. (I doubt this happens.)

FWIW, I actually could see them checking out McCarthy to see if he's a better pocket passer than Maye. My personal opinion: I don't think Daniels is one of their options. I could be 100% dead stinking wrong about that. But based on what I've seen from Daniels and what Kingsbury likes to do, I think the order is probably 1. Williams, 2. Maye. And go through the process to make sure McCarthy isn't some super talent which they hadn't noticed. There's no reason for a #3 on the list because they are picking #2.

I think they're going to pick a QB who can win from the pocket first, and create explosive plays with his arm. That's the foundation of the offenses Kingsbury grew e up in. I get they aren't going to run the Air Raid offense, but I think they are going to want to be able to throw the ball down field first. That's Maye. It might be McCarthy. It's not Daniels. He doesn't have the arm talent to drive the ball into tight windows down field.

So, until I'm proven wrong, and if we're being honest, I'm wrong more than I'm right, so it's highly likely I'm wrong, I still think it's 100% Maye at 2, my mind hasn't been swayed by the media swirl during lying season.

And if I'm 100% wrong, then so be it. :p
 
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I’m anxiously awaiting Bob from my local pizza shop to chime in with his take on what everyone is thinking and what their evaluations are.

Gawd this is going to be a long 4 weeks. 😐
 
I think one thing that Redskins fact share in common with Kingsbury may be a fair of small slight QBs.

RGIII has made a number of us gun shy of mobile QBs who don't know how to protect themselves. RGIII injured himself out of the league.

Kyle Murray has missed a lot of games due to injury. Murray also never lived up to his number one draft status.

Will Kingsbury see Daniels and see Murray the way we see RGIII? I don't know, but I think he might.
 
burgold said:
I think one thing that Redskins fact share in common with Kingsbury may be a fair of small slight QBs.

RGIII has made a number of us gun shy of mobile QBs who don't know how to protect themselves. RGIII injured himself out of the league.

Kyle Murray has missed a lot of games due to injury. Murray also never lived up to his number one draft status.

Will Kingsbury see Daniels and see Murray the way we see RGIII? I don't know, but I think he might.
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Hell, Lamar has missed quite a bit of time, and he's built like a tank comparatively to either Griffin or Daniels.

Lamar, for what it's worth, played 16 games and had 9.5 carries per game in 2023. He only played in 12 games in both the 2021 and 2022 seasons.

Hurts had 157 rushing attempts in 2023, 9.2 a game. He played all 17 games.

Add to that the hits any QB takes in the pocket, that's a lot of getting knocked around.

If you're 6-4 and 200lbs, even if you get down when you're supposed to, it just takes one bad hit, and you're done for a while. And the more you run the QB, the more you're exposing the QB to that possibility.

I personally think the dual threat QB is going to become less of a thing because of the injury risk.
 
Voice_of_Reason said:
Both Bram and Keim have said out loud they've heard absolutely nothing in any way which would have them believe the team is leaning in any direction.

I personally still think the pick is Maye, I think it's always been Maye, and I think literally 100% of the swirl is media driven because they have to talk about something. But I guarantee you Peters is not listening to Mel Kiper or Thor Freaking Idiotic Moronic "MaliK Willis is the best QB and the league messed up not drafting him" Nystrom.

They're doing their diligence, going through the process. They're saying nothing to anybody. The media is running with whatever they want to, and it's all meaningless.

I'm expecting them to pick Maye.
I'll raise an eyebrow if they pick Daniels, because I really don't think he fits what they want to do. It's only one eyebrow because I will easily concede Daniels is a heck of a prospect and my gut on what they want to do offensively was wrong. I think he's a heck of a talent.
I'll raise both eyebrows if they pick McCarthy at #2.
I'll have a look of deep intrigue if they trade out of #2, with an assumption they will pick a QB a few picks later.
If they pick anybody other than Maye, Daniels or McCarthy at 2, I'm going to have a toddler style tantrum. (I doubt this happens.)

FWIW, I actually could see them checking out McCarthy to see if he's a better pocket passer than Maye. My personal opinion: I don't think Daniels is one of their options. I could be 100% dead stinking wrong about that. But based on what I've seen from Daniels and what Kingsbury likes to do, I think the order is probably 1. Williams, 2. Maye. And go through the process to make sure McCarthy isn't some super talent which they hadn't noticed. There's no reason for a #3 on the list because they are picking #2.

I think they're going to pick a QB who can win from the pocket first, and create explosive plays with his arm. That's the foundation of the offenses Kingsbury grew e up in. I get they aren't going to run the Air Raid offense, but I think they are going to want to be able to throw the ball down field first. That's Maye. It might be McCarthy. It's not Daniels. He doesn't have the arm talent to drive the ball into tight windows down field.

So, until I'm proven wrong, and if we're being honest, I'm wrong more than I'm right, so it's highly likely I'm wrong, I still think it's 100% Maye at 2, my mind hasn't been swayed by the media swirl during lying season.

And if I'm 100% wrong, then so be it. :p
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Pretty much nails my take as well. Tantrum levels negotiable.
 
I think we have to separate the quarterback who runs and the running quarterback :)

Mahomes is one of the best improvisational talents I have ever seen in the NFL and he is athletic and can move, but his #1 goal is to be a passer and get the job done through the air.

When that breaks down after going through progressions OR it's a critical time in the game where an opportunity presents itself Mahomes then becomes a runner and uses open field ability to kill teams on the run while their defensive back seven has been pulled down the field in coverage.

Over the years he's also been a back breaker for defense running that naked bootleg and beating the defense to the corner in the red zone, although he's done a bit less of that over the past season or so.

That kind of athletic ability and off schedule playmaking is never going out of style. If you can get that type of quarterback over a strictly pocket passer it's a no brainer that you try and do so.

I don't know that any of the 2024 quarterbacks remind me of Mahomes. Caleb Williams seems to come the closest based on what I saw on the field.

The problem I have is with prospects that MAY, and I say MAY because you don't 100% know until you see them in the NFL, be quarterbacks that have to feature that running component of their games to be successful. They are not able to pass their teams to a Super Bowl if the threat of the dual option in a particular game because of the defense or weather is not there.

And to go with that would be any concerns that the player in question is slight of build leading to durability issues. As Joe Bugel used to say when asked about the size factor with the Redskins in the 1980's 'its quite simple, the NFL is a tough league and a team with bigger skilled players over time tends to defeat teams with smaller skilled players.'

I am not sure that Kingsbury has learned any 'lessons' in regards to the size of his quarterbacks and the durability issues he had with Murray, etc. but I bet Adam Peters and Andrew Newmark have that as one of the big check boxes going into the draft to mark up.
 
Bulldog said:
I think we have to separate the quarterback who runs and the running quarterback :)
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I agreeI could be missing one, but I can only think of 3 true "dual threat" QBs: Lamar Jackson, Jalen Hurts and Kyler Murray. Fields was, but he isn't going to be a starter any more.

All QBs will be put in a situations to be a runner from time to time. Hell, even Kirk ran a QB draw from time to time. But those are the three I can think of who are legitimately used as part of the run game.

The one I was on the fence with is Josh Allen. They really do use him He actually averaged the same number of rush attempts per game as Hurts and Jackson. So, if we want to toss him into that category, I'm cool with it. Even with him, that's 4.

All of the best QBs in the league are win from the pocket first QBs and then extend the play if necessary and run occasionally. Mahomes is the best at it. But just about all the best QBs apart from Jackson and Hurts are pass-first guys.

The other thing to note about Hurts, Jackson and Murray: they've all missed significant time already.

This is one of the reasons I prefer Maye over Daniels. The most consistent way to find a good QB is to find a guy who can win from the pocket.
 
Just listened to galdi’s pod. After hearing his guest comp Daniels to Fields just made me think dont touch him. Advance stats all point to maye or mccarthy as so much better.

On non scramble pass plays Daniels sack to pressure percent was over 30 percent…
 
More grist for the mill:

PFF put out a rating on the supporting cast in terms of OL, WR, RB the top quarterback prospects enjoyed in college last season.

Bo Nix rated the highest at 3.6 - he received the most support for his performance from the other players on his offensive unit - wins above replacement.

McCarthy was next at 2.6.

Jayden Daniels came in at 2.4 (he was third).

What the numbers showed overall was that DRAKE MAYE was the quarterback who did the most with the least in 2023.

The PFF value of the UNC offensive unit playing with Maye was -0.23.

That's right. He was playing with a unit that overall graded out to be slightly below replacement level.

This jives with what I saw in the games I watched with Maye, he was often left in a position where he threw the ball where there was no receiver at the spot or went back to throw and had a guy on him before he could set his feet and get rid of the ball.

When I looked at Daniels especially, he had a clean pocket and great wide receivers. Brian Thomas was WIDE open on several of those highlight reel throws and a capable quarterback should not miss those passes even if they are labeled as a mid round pick.

I didn't watch any Nix games in their entirety but he seemed to have forever to throw, he could pad the ball and move to his second or third progression while not having to move off his spot. It reminded me more of a 7 on 7 drill in the offseason work.

Maye's pro day will be interesting.

All we have heard recently is how superior Daniels is. From reviews it appears his pro day showed good throws and some bad ones as well. So a mixed picture.
 
I expect that Maye will have a very good day today (it’s very hard not to) and will regain the attention that waned a bit due to being the only one in the top 4 at his position not to have had their pro day.

The questions that need to be answered about him though will not be answered today-

Are his flaws inherent (short throw inaccuracy, sloppy footwork, long throwing motion) or are they improvable with professional coaching?

He clearly possesses the arm talent to make every throw. He also seems to be bright, to have leadership traits, and to be well liked by his coaches and teammates.

He has all the characteristics to be a top flight NFL QB if those concerns are viewed as correctable by NFL evaluators.
 
Well, you know if Peters looks at Kingsbury and Johnson and says 'well, boys, there is an arm we can work with and great size - can you help him with his dropback footwork, etc' you know they aren't going to say no :rotflmao:

Maye has some bust potential but Daniels does as well. When I look at Maye on the upside I see a Josh Allen type passer who gets to the top IF he puts in the work.

All of these quarterbacks need some work - I think it really does come down to the interviews and the evaluation these teams make on the maturity and focus of the players.

You could see with Dwayne Haskins that starting off his new clothing line and Instagram marketing was way too important for a guy that had yet to prove he was a starting quarterback in the NFL.
 
Bulldog said:
Well, you know if Peters looks at Kingsbury and Johnson and says 'well, boys, there is an arm we can work with and great size - can you help him with his dropback footwork, etc' you know they aren't going to say no :rotflmao:
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If that were indeed the case, and those coaches were holding back on serious concerns, they would be doing a major disservice to the organization, to the players, and to the fanbase.
 
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