QB or not QB

[tomwvr]

Why would that be awful. And he has one year plus the 5th year option, It would be a two year thing. And it would give us a shot a top Tackle in the draft. What would make it not awful - chicago adding a 3rd or 4th this year?

 

[Boone]

How about this idea
Trade the number 2 pick to chicago for the number 9 pick and Justin Fields?

It's an idea

Again, if Justin Fields were capable of being a true NFL franchise QB Chicago wouldn't be drafting his replacement. He's not it.

 

[tomwvr]

And how many QBs lately have failed at their first team and gone elsewhere and done so much better?

 

[Primus Porcus]

I keep finding myself coming back to my concern for pretty much any QB coming into this current situation. The trajectory of these QBs is not already set. A QB that comes here could fail, while being successful elsewhere.. the career path is not a parallel line no matter where they are.

Brady is not Brady for all 31 other teams
Mahomes
Allen…

It’s obviously not the end all, be all, but I think it needs to be accounted for when these decisions are being made. Peters and co need to be thinking about contending for the foreseeable future, and have the honest conversation about what creates the most wins, not only over the next 2 seasons, but the next 2 decades. Is there enough here that it’s not going to affect the trajectory of the career of a QB we take at no 2? Is the QB we consider taking there good enough to overcome, and continue to develop in the right direction as this roster is rebuilt?

I don’t have the absolute answer, I just hope these things are being considered... which is why (though I’m not against a QB at no. 2), that I’m not saying it’s “QB or Bust”

 

[tomwvr]

What worries me is we get a rookie QB at 2 we are then unable to get a solid Left Tackle in the draft and we reach for a tackle in the 2nd round and then we start down a path where we have a rookie that can't get protected well and he gets clobbered at a level like Sam did and we are right back here again, and then the fans loose confidence in the new owners and coaches and we rinse and repeat in 3 years. I really do not think we have the foundation to throw in a rookie QB and be successful.

 

[Chris]

We really have no idea what foundation the team currently has because we have yet to see any moves beyond 3 developmental pieces signed. Surely there will more before the draft.

The roster as currently stocked wouldn’t really support any QB outside of a relative very few. I personally believe that it will be in a much better position come training camp and that the coaching will be much better than fans have been accustomed to.

I pretty much have to, right?

 

[tomwvr]

I am so used to it being crap I wont believe it is better until them do things that JKC, Gibbs and Beathard would have done. Drafting A QB and hoping he can survive with this line - which free agency can't fix because the FA linemen this year are not any better then what we have and then hoping 2nd round and later picks do the job wont cut it. But if they go QB and move to 1 - that would be a Danny move not something smart, and if they draft a QB at two and don't take MayE then we will have a broken QB in less than 2 seasons. Hell even with Maye that may happen. I truly believe the way to go is trade back to 5-7 take one of the top 3 tackles and then take a QB in round 2 along with a Guard. And then go edge and LB with other picks,

 

[Boone]

And how many QBs lately have failed at their first team and gone elsewhere and done so much better?

Is it that many though? I can think of a handful but doesn’t seem like it’s that common a thing? I think what’s far more common is teams recycling the same mid-tier QBs because they’ve failed to draft their own starter repeatedly. The Sam Darnold/Mitch Trubisky effect.

I guess my thought is ‘don’t over think this’. We have the 2nd pick in a draft many feel is the strongest QB class in awhile. We have lots of other picks and a lot of cash to add talent. Draft the best QB available.

 

[burgold]

I think a lot of us have staked out our position. For me, it’s a fairly simple plan.

1) Analyze the quarterbacks. If you fall in love with Maye, Daniel’s, or Williams and they are there at 2 you run to the podium and take them.

2) if you don’t love any of the QBs at two then you trade down for a Herschel Walker or at least an RGIII level deal. After that, you build the team, starting with a tackle with the new first rounder and the idea that you’re sticking Howell as your starter. Maybe you draft a QB in the second round, but primarily you are building the line, finding a tight end, edge rushers, etc.

 

[Boone]

I think that’s the most important point. It doesn’t matter what the fan assessment of a player is. It matters what Adam Peters and company think. If they think ANYONE available is a future franchise QB, the idea of trading down is insanity. If they don’t then all options should be on the table.

 

[tomwvr]

I think that’s the most important point. It doesn’t matter what the fan assessment of a player is. It matters what Adam Peters and company think. If they think ANYONE available is a future franchise QB, the idea of trading down is insanity. If they don’t then all options should be on the table.

No argument there - but I will loose confidence in the staff if they trade a ton of picks to move one spot,

 

[Primus Porcus]

A lot of 'experts' were chirping about Howell and how pressure to sack ratio is a fatal flaw... one that DOES in fact translate from College to pros. If you believe this table... Daniels is doomed

 

[SkinsNumberOne]

A lot of 'experts' were chirping about Howell and how pressure to sack ratio is a fatal flaw... one that DOES in fact translate from College to pros. If you believe this table... Daniels is doomed

That is INTERESTING STUFF! Nice find!

The way I interpret the full contents of that table, I would say Bo Nix looks the best - factoring in some of the rating stats along with the highlighted portion. Penix doesn't have nearly as good a passer rating and only holds a slight advantage in the highlighted portion on Bo Nix.
Also interesting is that the scramble rate seems to have influenced the sack numbers; probably the tendency to scramble leads to a higher percentage of sacks as well.

 

[Neophyte]

 

[Chris]

 

[SkinsNumberOne]

This is why the "hope they will figure it out" policy we constantly have as fans rarely works out.

They went after Peters; he was a clear target, and they got him. That was great, but it is clear that they knew who they wanted from the start.

In the HC case, they didn't know, so they went through a big process. There is now enough evidence to show their process was very diligent, but there were lots of voices in the room. I think Peters was allowed to be a significant voice, if not the loudest, but there were still so many voices that the process was clearly slower than ideal. That - again we'll say it - could be OK, if at least things will settle for the next step, and Peters will be more fully given the reins.

This isn't a good sign. Harris interviewing QBs? This has a shiny toy feeling again. I'm not sure why there isn't more trust for Peters. Don't hire him if you are going to treat him like this.

 

[Neophyte]

I think we need to be careful about making assumptions around motive.

I doubt this is about a lack of trust in Peters. He was their target from the off after all.

Knowing what we know about everything that has happened since Harris and team took over in July, I think it more likely that Harris is trying to educate himself in a new sport.

I know Shefter says "taken part" but that can mean a lot of things.

There has also been a massive emphasis on the idea of collaboration. What if Peters invited Harris to sit in, thereby giving Harris a measure of the man the team maybe drafting?

I don't think this is a red flag...yet. It does bear watching though.

 

[burgold]

The thought I had is much more innocent.

When my first play was being produced in New York I wanted to be part of everything. I sat in on auditions, production meetings, walked through prop warehouses, and was there for most of the rehearsals. Now, I was there to answer questions and provide fixes, but I wasn't there to tell the director how to direct, the actors how to act, or design the lights and sound effects. I wasn't really all that hands on as much as I was eyes on.

This is Harris' first year to be a part of the NFL. If I were him I'd want to be in the room too. It's cool to see how the sausage is made. Wanting to experience all the cool stuff doesn't necsessarily make you a pest or meddlesome, but it does show enthusiasm... which ain't a bad thing. I think we are lucky in that this is not Harris' first rodeo. With his stints in the NBA and NHL, he's already learned what he doesn't know and the difference between fan knowledge and pro knowledge.

Since, we haven't really ever read stories about Harris being a Snyder with those other teams, I think we're safe.

 

[Boone]

This is why the "hope they will figure it out" policy we constantly have as fans rarely works out.

They went after Peters; he was a clear target, and they got him. That was great, but it is clear that they knew who they wanted from the start.

In the HC case, they didn't know, so they went through a big process. There is now enough evidence to show their process was very diligent, but there were lots of voices in the room. I think Peters was allowed to be a significant voice, if not the loudest, but there were still so many voices that the process was clearly slower than ideal. That - again we'll say it - could be OK, if at least things will settle for the next step, and Peters will be more fully given the reins.

This isn't a good sign. Harris interviewing QBs? This has a shiny toy feeling again. I'm not sure why there isn't more trust for Peters. Don't hire him if you are going to treat him like this.

100% agree. Get the fuck out of the room Josh. Seriously - what does he possibly have to offer those conversations/assessments that brings any real value. I don’t want Peters selecting g a QB with ANY influence from an owner. Period.

 

[Boone]

The thought I had is much more innocent.

When my first play was being produced in New York I wanted to be part of everything. I sat in on auditions, production meetings, walked through prop warehouses, and was there for most of the rehearsals. Now, I was there to answer questions and provide fixes, but I wasn't there to tell the director how to direct, the actors how to act, or design the lights and sound effects. I wasn't really all that hands on as much as I was eyes on.

This is Harris' first year to be a part of the NFL. If I were him I'd want to be in the room too. It's cool to see how the sausage is made. Wanting to experience all the cool stuff doesn't necsessarily make you a pest or meddlesome, but it does show enthusiasm... which ain't a bad thing. I think we are lucky in that this is not Harris' first rodeo. With his stints in the NBA and NHL, he's already learned what he doesn't know and the difference between fan knowledge and pro knowledge.

Since, we haven't really ever read stories about Harris being a Snyder with those other teams, I think we're safe.

He hasn’t been an NFL owner before and clearly it’s a much bigger deal to him than those other sports franchises could ever be. It doesn’t matter what his intent is. Everyone on those meetings will feel his presence and it’s not possible for Harris not to provide some reactions any more than it is not possible that his reactions won’t have some effect on decision-makers.

Harris should be asked directly why he is attending football-related meetings and if he isn’t concerned about influencing future decisions.