QB or not QB

I listened to it today John, and you're not wrong, the guy who covered USC was very complimentary of Williams and his mentality. He even pointed out that he was as excited, if not more excited, that the QB that took his place in the bowl game threw 6 TDs and set a school record.

I still am drawn to athletes that just shut up and work, and I think the old school members of this fanbase think along the same lines. We've never been overly drawn to the boisterous and outgoing guys. That said, when there is one of them on the team that is successful, we're drawn to it... ie Clinton Ports, John Riggins, Chris Cooley.

If he's successful, they will be attributed to his unique style, if he's not successful, they'll be personality hurdles he couldn't overcome.
 
SilentThreat said:
I listened to it today John, and you're not wrong, the guy who covered USC was very complimentary of Williams and his mentality. He even pointed out that he was as excited, if not more excited, that the QB that took his place in the bowl game threw 6 TDs and set a school record.
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Yeah, the same QB who never would have played, and won 42-28, if the selfish starter had not chosen to sit out the game.
 
I spent the better part of the evening and this morning watching a ton of Air Raid offenses as a friend of mine wants to install it with his new team. I knew a fair amount already but it gave me a chance to lean into the adaptation of it in the pros and at certain colleges.

I would tell you, the one thing I walk away from after watching a ton of Kingsbury with the Cardinals and how he grew from beginning to end there and then, while not as much, watching USC with Williams. I am almost completely convinced that if your QB is over 6'3" and has reasonable feet, your chances for success grows dramatically IMHO. Again, let me say I have watched a ton of film from numerous Air Raid offenses both successful and not so much. It was a nice reason to watch Kingsbury to gain info.

The quick answer as to why I say this....the Air Raid has always been about throwing to space. The time needed for that to happen is the crucial part of the equation whether its QB driven or WR driven. The QB who can stay in pocket longer and basically see over the line, appeared to have the most success consistently. Mind you, I am being very simple with this statement as there is a lot more detail to study, but you always take a bird eye view of situations and break it down accordingly.

My thought right now if you made me choose....Drake Maye.

One thing to add. You do as a coach, ask the question with any player what do I have to teach this one to be successful. Its very nice when the height and speed boxes are checked as you really can't do anything about that.
 
Boone said:
I wish more would listen to that Galdi episode I posted a week or so ago with a media guy who covered USC. Per that guy the diva stuff is all way overblown, said Williams is well-respected by teammates and coaches and has a solid work ethic. I think we are buying into a lot of the negative media hype that is not completely accurate. And I say that as someone who doesn’t want us to trade up for him.
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Love to heat that.
 
Utah said:
I spent the better part of the evening and this morning watching a ton of Air Raid offenses as a friend of mine wants to install it with his new team. I knew a fair amount already but it gave me a chance to lean into the adaptation of it in the pros and at certain colleges.

I would tell you, the one thing I walk away from after watching a ton of Kingsbury with the Cardinals and how he grew from beginning to end there and then, while not as much, watching USC with Williams. I am almost completely convinced that if your QB is over 6'3" and has reasonable feet, your chances for success grows dramatically IMHO. Again, let me say I have watched a ton of film from numerous Air Raid offenses both successful and not so much. It was a nice reason to watch Kingsbury to gain info.

The quick answer as to why I say this....the Air Raid has always been about throwing to space. The time needed for that to happen is the crucial part of the equation whether its QB driven or WR driven. The QB who can stay in pocket longer and basically see over the line, appeared to have the most success consistently. Mind you, I am being very simple with this statement as there is a lot more detail to study, but you always take a bird eye view of situations and break it down accordingly.

My thought right now if you made me choose....Drake Maye.

One thing to add. You do as a coach, ask the question with any player what do I have to teach this one to be successful. Its very nice when the height and speed boxes are checked as you really can't do anything about that.
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Would Williams have benefited overtly if he were 6’3 or taller? Does his athletic ability offset that?
 
I would say yes but it would make him a bit of different QB that we see. Williams, through quick study, has massive confidence in his ability to make off-schedule plays. His arm and feet have been a blessing to him and, rightfully so, he has had a ton of success making these plays happen and becoming the possible generational QB people hope he can be. I just don't think that he is a player worth trading 2-4 possible impact players for him. I would tell you Kyler Murray is a damn good QB with all the same traits that Williams has but he is forced so many times to bail on good plays because he simply can not see down the field long enough to allow something to develop. I realize he is 5'10" ...maybe. But the concept still flows. Also, I am inclined to want to run an offense that has an athlete at the helm, not someone who has to BE an athlete at the helm for consistent success. Plus, IF, he goes down, can my offensive production be reasonably duplicated by the back up. Just thoughts.

I would also further answer that question, IMHO, that Drake Maye is not 2-4 possible impact players behind Williams in possible production.
 
Key in on that part of what was said about next year's quarterbacks class. I think we need to draft a quarterback, whether at #2 or via a trade down.

I don't think kicking the can down the road until the absolutely PERFECT situation comes along where we are 100% guaranteed of getting a no fail passer is a practical strategy.

It certainly didn't work for Ron Rivera.

OK, true people took me to task that Ron drafted Chase Young in part because Snyder wanted Haskins to get a shot - which he did for what 4 games? :rotflmao:

But there was 2021. There was 2022. There was 2023.

And the porridge was never quite right for Father Ron, it was either too warm or too cold.

Meantime, Jahan Dotson and Jamin Davis are good athletes and have been OK to this point of their careers, but right now is anyone ready to hand out a second contract to either of them?

And Emmanuel Forbes? He still has to prove he can be a consistent NFL player who deserves a roster spot.
 
Bulldog said:
Key in on that part of what was said about next year's quarterbacks class. I think we need to draft a quarterback, whether at #2 or via a trade down.

I don't think kicking the can down the road until the absolutely PERFECT situation comes along where we are 100% guaranteed of getting a no fail passer is a practical strategy.

It certainly didn't work for Ron Rivera.

OK, true people took me to task that Ron drafted Chase Young in part because Snyder wanted Haskins to get a shot - which he did for what 4 games? :rotflmao:

But there was 2021. There was 2022. There was 2023.

And the porridge was never quite right for Father Ron, it was either too warm or too cold.

Meantime, Jahan Dotson and Jamin Davis are good athletes and have been OK to this point of their careers, but right now is anyone ready to hand out a second contract to either of them?

And Emmanuel Forbes? He still has to prove he can be a consistent NFL player who deserves a roster spot.
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Team Ron's inability to find talent in the first round doesn't really mean this group should draft a QB, those are two separate issues.

I think we should probably get a QB, but I don't think it should be at #2. I am personally for trading down. With the right conversations and connections, you can find a trading partner who feels that #2 has value; that is at least possible.

In years past, either:
- WAS *was* that trading partner
- or: WAS was too incompetent to find one

I think both of those things happened over the years. I think there are ways to get deals done in the league, and we have not had an FO that understood much about that aspect of things. I hope Peters will create the structure needed to make good on it. I am not overly thrilled about Hurney and Mayhew staying on. They were spearheading the Ron regime's mentality that "all players must come to US" for negotiations at the end of the contracts. It led to a lot of bad and unnecessary situations. It was stupid on multiple levels. People who have that level of incompetence should not be rewarded. That said, they can potentially blame Ron for it, but since it would be unclear how much Ron should shoulder there individually, if I were the new FO, I would have probably been leaning towards cutting the Marties loose. Or at least Hurney (since he seemed to be slightly more in charge of these decisions).
 
Of course there is the Steelers or Giants approach through the years of staying put at the pick and just taking the best player available.

That isn't too popular of a strategy these days for clubs used to losing, though.
 
One way or the other, we have to solve the QB problem. For the first time in so long, we're organized how most of us agree is a correct NFL team structure. Getting QB right is so hard, but I think we're in a place to be able to do that for the first time in several decades.
 
I think there is a lot of media driven momentum, most likely driven by Daniels' agent to push the agenda Daniels is the either #1 or #2 prospect on the board.

I'm not sure that's true. I think a lot of people are connecting dots. I'm not sure the dots they are connecting are the right dots.

If you look at the mocks and the reporting, I think Daniels is being projected most often to Washington at #2.

I'm not so sure all the dots which are being connected are actually leading people to the right answer. I wouldn't be remotely shocked if the pick was Maye. Long way to go. But I get this feeling Daniels has the momentum in the media, and fans are going to glob on to that. And if the pick is Maye, there might be some disappointment. Which will be disappointing.
 
Personally, I am getting the feeling I usually do with overhyped stocks :LOL:

Is it Maye or Daniels? Daniels or Maye? Trade up for Williams?

Meanwhile, my guess is that either JJ McCarthy or Michael Penix is going to turn out to be a better NFL quarterback than at least one if not two of these more heralded players.

The odds are there IS a Zack Wilson or Bryce Young in one of those top 3 picks - a guy that is going to be challenged to make it in the NFL despite the college pedigree.
 
Bulldog said:
The odds are there IS a Zack Wilson or Bryce Young in one of those top 3 picks - a guy that is going to be challenged to make it in the NFL despite the college pedigree.
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Even the best of the bunch will be challenged if there isn't enough talent around them.

I'm not convinced Young is a bust in Carolina but I am convinced he just doesn't have the supporting cast there for anyone to know for sure.
 
tomwvr said:
How about this idea
Trade the number 2 pick to chicago for the number 9 pick and Justin Fields?
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Considering Chicago is asking for a second rounder that would be an awful trade. Besides, Justin Fields is fool's gold. What reason has he given anyone to think that he'll be great?

More, considering he's on the last year of his rookie deal it'd also be a very expensive trade unless we want to give away the second overall draft pick for the ninth pick and a one year rental.
 
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