MMQ - Jay Gruden: "I would be foolish to try to turn RG3 into a pocket passer."

Fight on... Fight on...

tshile

The Legend
Joined
Sep 20, 2011
Messages
17,829
Points
0

George Mason


MMQ - Jay Gruden: "I would be foolish to try to turn RG3 into a pocket passer."

Peyton Manning, Broncos vs. Richard Sherman, Seahawks in Super Bowl 48 | The MMQB with Peter King
Jay Gruden, Washington: Getting the most out of Robert Griffin III.

For the St. Louis Rams, the 2012 trade of the second pick in the draft—which Washington used to select Griffin—is the gift that keeps on giving. Four starting Rams have come from the deal, and there’s still the second pick in the draft this year remaining. For Griffin, who never formed the bond there should have been with coaches Mike and Kyle Shanahan, the Gruden addition is vital. Gruden will be judged by wins and losses, to be sure, but also by whether he can coach and teach Griffin into becoming the franchise quarterback he was drafted to be.

“I worked with Andy Dalton for three years in Cincinnati, and built a foundation of concepts and protections that I think worked well with him,” Gruden said. “With Robert, we’ll obviously use his skill set differently. When it comes to the quarterback position, my job is to make him comfortable and productive. I’m not going to try to turn RG3 into Andy Dalton or Drew Brees. He isn’t them. They’re not him. I would be foolish to try to turn RG3 into a pocket passer. It would be foolish. The way he is as a runner, we have to take advantage of that. He strikes fear into defensive coordinators when he runs outside. I’m going to let him be himself.

It sounds good. But Griffin, as himself, averaged 132 rushes per year in his four Baylor seasons. He ran it 120 times as an NFL rookie in 2012, when he was the Offensive Rookie of the Year. He’ll be 24 when next season starts, and has already had two ACL surgeries. Do you really want Griffin to “be himself” if that self wants to get out of the pocket and run so much? I understand Gruden, but I also would want to limit my young franchise quarterback’s exposure to danger in the open field—unless he was committed to sliding at the first sign of trouble, which Griffin hasn’t shown a willingness to do consistently.

Hrm...
 

Miles Monroe

Coaching Staff
Staff member
Joined
Jul 15, 2009
Messages
5,631
Points
116


That's what I wanted to hear from Gruden.... No square peg in a round hole. Time to play some ball !
 

Jimbo

The Franchise Player
Joined
Jul 15, 2009
Messages
4,264
Points
66


And that statement certainly doesn't say he's NOT going to improve Griff's pocket passing ability, it just means Griff's not going to be like Drew Brees and always throw from the pocket. I envision more rollouts and things of that nature with a few designed runs in his back pocket to be used at key times in the game. Not sure if the O-Line can be totally fixed this offseason so making him a pocket passer would probably get him killed anyway.
 

Elephant

The Commissioner
Joe Gibbs Club Member
Joined
Aug 1, 2009
Messages
24,267
Points
1,068

Florida State

I gotta disagree Pete. That is exactly not what I wanted to hear from him, unless what he means is he willing swing Griffin out on the edge to give him time to pass the ball. I am not saying mold him into a pocket passer at all costs, but I think we need to realize the most successful QB's win by throwing the ball...not running it. The life expectancy of a running QB is not long in the NFL.

I think the performances by Newton, Krappernick and Wilson in this playoffs are evidence enough that the read-option is a great tool to have in your arsenal, but it's not the stuff an offense should be built upon.
 

SilentThreat

The Franchise Player
Joe Gibbs Club Member
Joined
Oct 8, 2009
Messages
4,659
Points
68


I think he's going into it knowing that Griffin has something that very few Qbs have. An additional threat. He doesn't really NEED to run on a regular basis... the Defense just needs to believe he might do it.

In addition to that, he doesn't say he's going to be a runner... he just said pocket passer. Bootlegs, roll outs, screens... none of which are 'pocket passing' situations. Just because he's not primarily a pocket passer, doesn't mean he's a runner either.
 

Kel Varnsen

NFL Pickem Champion 2017 BGO Ballers Ch
Joe Gibbs Club Member
Joined
Oct 5, 2010
Messages
2,095
Points
36

High Point

You have to use your players skills, no matter what they are. He was drafted not just for his arms, but also his legs. I don't think this comment means he's only going to be a runner. I expect Gruden to help develop his passing ability first and foremost. He's the QB and his number one job is to throw. But when you add that extra dimension, "He strikes fear into defensive coordinators...". A good coach will use all the weapons available and that's what I want to see.
 

McD5

The Hall of Famer
Joined
Mar 30, 2010
Messages
14,920
Points
0

Florida State

I don't think anyone would expect him to say or do anything different. rg is not a pocket passer. the league knows it.

--John Keim

RG3 is no pocket passer.

--McD5
 

Miles Monroe

Coaching Staff
Staff member
Joined
Jul 15, 2009
Messages
5,631
Points
116


The one thing that gets me with this subject at this point, fans fear hasn't changed when it comes to Roberts welfare.

Shanny was done last year from all indications, and let his young QB get killed forcing him to be something he's not, behind one of, if not the worst pass protecting line in the league. Shanny had nothing to loose.

Now Gruden comes in. A first time head coach in the NFL, with everything to loose. Does anybody honestly think he's going to put his bread in jeopardy. He's gonna put a line in front of him to begin with that can protect, and he's going to let Robert play the game the way he has always played. He put the team on his back his rookie season, and ran his ass off to make things happen. With a guy who eats, sleeps, and craps Quarter Back as his coach, and a line, he can go back to being the kid from Baylor..... kickin ass, and takin names.

I can't enjoy the game if I have to worry about my QB getting injured. I'm not worried, Grudens success is dependent on Roberts, and expect this to be a lot of fun to watch. I expect Gruden to do a far better job in keeping Robert on the field then Shanny did.

Said it before, and I'll say it again.... ya don't hitch a plow to a thoroughbred horse.
 

Lanky Livingston

The Commissioner
Joined
Jul 15, 2009
Messages
27,017
Points
0

Florida Atlantic

I gotta disagree Pete. That is exactly not what I wanted to hear from him, unless what he means is he willing swing Griffin out on the edge to give him time to pass the ball. I am not saying mold him into a pocket passer at all costs, but I think we need to realize the most successful QB's win by throwing the ball...not running it. The life expectancy of a running QB is not long in the NFL.

I think the performances by Newton, Krappernick and Wilson in this playoffs are evidence enough that the read-option is a great tool to have in your arsenal, but it's not the stuff an offense should be built upon.
You answered your own post... Newton, Wilson, and Krappernick have shown you don't need a pocket passer. That's 50% of the NFC field! If Griffin gets back on track, that's 66% (assuming the others make it again).

And with Bridgewater and Manziel coming out next year and presumably starting, there could be even more non-pocket passer led teams in the post season.

Sent from my XT1060 using Tapatalk
 

fansince62

The All-Time Great
Joined
Jul 22, 2009
Messages
16,005
Points
316


are they sizing up the stretcher?

- the price gets higher then since that sort of wear will eventually reduce his longevity

- RG wants to be a pocket passer. this ought to get interesting. another conflict in the wings waiting before this even gets started?

- is Gruden intimating that RGIII does not have the athletic ability or smarts to be a pure pocket passer? has he watched film and decided "man...the mechanics really suck....best get one more season and then find the next guy? I can't fix this."

- RG is no threat if he's standing on the side-lines on crutches

Is Gruden in over his head? In my mind...it's incredibly f'ing STUPID to be talking about your starting QB, whom you haven't worked out on the field or established a relationship with...and passing judgments on him - thru the media no less. is this cat Gruden really this jejune? does he prioritize working the press over the players? does he like to be heard? somebody feed me!!!

it appears, more and more, that what the brain trust/front office really wanted was someone to run the offense and "leave the driving to us".
 
Last edited:

Ax

2016 BGO FF ChampionUgly American
Joined
Jul 22, 2009
Messages
14,756
Points
0


You get a job at ESPN?

Whatever Robert can do to help the team win, do it. If his career ends tomorrow, we'll find another QB.
 

fansince62

The All-Time Great
Joined
Jul 22, 2009
Messages
16,005
Points
316


You get a job at ESPN?

Whatever Robert can do to help the team win, do it. If his career ends tomorrow, we'll find another QB.
Glad you're not running my business! there is the notion of ROI. the investment in RGIII was HUGE. you really saying that...drive RG into the ground even if it ends his career next season....we can still stand proud that we enabled St Louis to reach the SB in a couple years?

don't tell anyone....it was by running that he has been seriously injured...twice!!! if he doesn't have the skills to be a pocket passer..then he never, ever, ever should have been drafted. Kapernick lost, wilson is average, even newton is running less. what you want, IMO, is a pocket passer who, when pressed can run. but in today's NFL, at these speeds and masses, prioritizing the run over the pocket is a long-run prescription for disaster.
 
Last edited:

Ax

2016 BGO FF ChampionUgly American
Joined
Jul 22, 2009
Messages
14,756
Points
0


People get hurt playing football. They are replaced by new people. How many teams that had all their picks the last two years haven't won a Super Bowl?

Robert could rupture his Achilles dropping back to pass, without getting touched.

Fate, will be what it is.
 

SilentThreat

The Franchise Player
Joe Gibbs Club Member
Joined
Oct 8, 2009
Messages
4,659
Points
68


Glad you're not running my business! there is the notion of ROI. the investment in RGIII was HUGE. you really saying that...drive RG into the ground even if it ends his career next season....we can still stand proud that we enabled St Louis to reach the SB in a couple years?
I don't think he was implying to run Griff into the ground.


I think the more important thing to do here is to trust that Gruden is going to do what's he feels is best for the Redskins, and use the talent to his advantage. Gruden called a spade a spade, and he's correct about it. Griffin isn't CURRENTLY a pocket passing qb, therefore EXPECTING him to be a Peyton Manning type with his current skillset is unfair to him and to the franchise. I don't think I saw him once say that they aren't going to develop his pocket passing skills, or that he's going to be primarily a running quarterback...
 

Ax

2016 BGO FF ChampionUgly American
Joined
Jul 22, 2009
Messages
14,756
Points
0


you really saying that...drive RG into the ground even if it ends his career next season....we can still stand proud that we enabled St Louis to reach the SB in a couple years?
Yes, run him into the ground. That's exactly what I said. 1st 15 plays of every game, QB draw. With no helmet. And, he should be a gunner on special teams. And play safety.
 

Boone

GM
Staff member
Joined
Apr 11, 2009
Messages
38,807
Points
1,829

Marine Corps Virginia

Griffin also said repeatedly at the end of this season 'im just going to be me' and 'im going to do what i do best', so you're quoting selectively Al.

There is nothing wrong or inherently 'stupid' about using your QB's talents. Griffin didn't suffer his last knee injury as a result of taking off out of the pocket. Lots of current QB's take off and use their feet when they need to. Its part of todays game and its not a bad thing. Doing it wisely and with leas risk taking, sure, thats a goal. But playing QB in the NFL is risk-taking by its very nature. Lets try and stop parsing every word our new coach says for God's sake.
 

fansince62

The All-Time Great
Joined
Jul 22, 2009
Messages
16,005
Points
316


Griffin also said repeatedly at the end of this season 'im just going to be me' and 'im going to do what i do best', so you're quoting selectively Al.

There is nothing wrong or inherently 'stupid' about using your QB's talents. Griffin didn't suffer his last knee injury as a result of taking off out of the pocket. Lots of current QB's take off and use their feet when they need to. Its part of todays game and its not a bad thing. Doing it wisely and with leas risk taking, sure, thats a goal. But playing QB in the NFL is risk-taking by its very nature. Lets try and stop parsing every word our new coach says for God's sake.
oh yes he did. the whole chain of events started with the hit by Ngata.

yes..use the talents. and we have had two seasons to come to a reasonable conclusion: this guy gets hurt when he runs. the saving grace, so far, is that he is tough as nails. polish him into a pocket passer - and then use the run selectively. but make sure he has those pocket skills - he clearly does't at this point. and I, for one,, find Gruden's comments lacking in judgement.

one of the major search criteria for a friggin coach in the first place was to find someone who could fix RG's passing mechanics and who could groom him into the complete package. o-line notwithstanding, anyone who watched or attended those games knows RG hurt his team by not being able to use the pocket and work its dynamics. there is another matter, once you start running, while that does complicate matters for the defense, it also reduces the QB's vision as well as throw timing....it downsizes the field, as it were, for both the offense AND the defense. one strategy DCs came up with this season for the read option was obvious: beat the crap out of the QB regardless. that's how they're going to deal with this. in my mind, use his talents as a strategic asset - but get him to master the fundamentals of the pocket.

what the heck is Gruden saying here?

- there is no need to teach RG how to run a timing offense?

- there is no need to teach RG how to scan the field and work thru options?

- there is no need to teach RG how to sidestep pressure in the pocket?

- there is no need teach the other players how to roll to pressure in pocket formations?

- we don't need to build a roster w/o-linemen that are strong in pocket pass-pro? stick with the Shanahan vision but with different areas of emphasis?

- we don't need to spend bucks on a cadre of outstanding receivers since a running QB is going to be the strategic focus?

It's not at all clear what he is thinking. No doubt he has some plan. I don't know what it is. I think he'd be better served to keep his piehole shut for the moment until he figures out, on the field, which of his concepts will fit this team as constituted post-draft/OTAs.
 
Last edited:

Ax

2016 BGO FF ChampionUgly American
Joined
Jul 22, 2009
Messages
14,756
Points
0


The Ngata hit wasn't on a run play. It was a scramble.
 

Boone

GM
Staff member
Joined
Apr 11, 2009
Messages
38,807
Points
1,829

Marine Corps Virginia

MMQ - Jay Gruden: "I would be foolish to try to turn RG3 into a pocket passer."

He got hurt this year? I must have missed that? And he played the whole season less than a year removed from knee surgery and still survived without injury. I don't want him taking unnecessary hits but just as many QBs get hurt in the pocket as when running - where's the laundry list of read option QBs who've been sidelines with traumatic injury?

Thats right - there is no list because its not happening. Griffin can be a read option QB, use his talents, and have a long career. He just needs to be smarter and know when to protect himself. He's smart and is already learning.
 

Boone

GM
Staff member
Joined
Apr 11, 2009
Messages
38,807
Points
1,829

Marine Corps Virginia

MMQ - Jay Gruden: "I would be foolish to try to turn RG3 into a pocket passer."

And you know what, we constantly hear how Griffin is this prima donna who gets special treatment and attention - and how negative the impact of that is. So stop treating him like he is exactly that. He's a football player and we should use his talents in whatever way it takes to win. I don't hear anyone saying how horrible and stupid the coaches are because they plan on rushing Alfred Morris head first into hostile defenders over and over again. Fans need to stop wringing their hands over all the horrible things that may happen. I swear we sound like rape victims at times.
 
Private conversations
Help Users
    You haven't joined any rooms.
    Chat 0
    Top