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MMQ - Jay Gruden: "I would be foolish to try to turn RG3 into a pocket passer."
Ax
Guest
No more hyperbole than anyone else's.
Robert will progress. But the "must be a pocket passer first or be damned" approach will get him killed as quick as anything else will. If not faster. It might take him 5 years to develop top notch pocket skills. It's the most foreign to him, right now. Better to fine tune his best abilities first, while integrating the new. He can, and already has begun, learning how to better protect himself when he runs. I would pound that into his head more than anything.
Cycleans
The Starter
I hope that his issues with staying in the pocket with eyes downfield are correctable with a better pass blocking unit. They don't have to be the best unit in the league but anything is better than what he had last season. I don't see how he could trust what he had last season.
Lanky Livingston
Guest
I'm not sure if this was rhetorical or not, but currently he doesn't seem to. That needs to change, and I think Gruden coming out and blatantly ignoring RGII & III's requests for no more read-option is a start. Gruden needs to assert himself as the one in charge from the beginning, and nip all that other nonsense in the bud. IMO.
tshile
Guest
No, not rhetorical at all. It's actually the main thing that I think makes these quotes... worth paying attention to.
We have his father that came out last year and said: Show me a running quarterback and I'll show you a loser.
We now have the coach saying: Griffin will use his legs to threaten defenses.
Obviously we have no idea what Gruden's plans are. Is he blowing smoke to mess with other coaches? Is he talking about growing Griffin so that he uses his legs just enough that other teams have to account for it, but not so much that it becomes a part of his 'reputation' as a quarterback? Is he talking about running it on a regular basis (read: ~10 designed runs a game)? Maybe he's just talking about using him in the redzone as a threat? Will he consider sending him out into a WR position as some sort of trick play like we saw year one?
Who the hell knows. We'll find out come September and into the year.
But given the media tour The Griffins went on last year and how much they talked about Griffin being a pocket passer.... and how much Griffin 3 obviously cares about Griffin 2... and Griffin 2 literally said show me a running QB and I'll show you a loser...
Feuding with the QB is the #1 reason we have a new coaching staff this year in my opinion. Gruden hasn't had a practice yet and he came out and said this?
I don't agree with fansince62 100% on this issue, more like 95%... seriously, what the **** is this guy thinking? Is he stupid? Is he just naive to whole situation? Is this a tough guy, I'm going to be the boss sort of thing?
I suppose an option is that I'm completely blowing it out of proportion, but I didn't make up the media tour of last off season and I'm not making up these quotes. I also didn't make up the drama that led to our coaching staff being fired.
That shit is real. It happened. Right in front of all of our eyes. Now this?
Like I said in the OP.
Hrm....
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Lanky Livingston
Guest
There's a stark difference between "running QB" and utilizing Griffin's skill set, as I think has been aptly covered when he was originally compared to Vick. Its a bit silly to speculate on that now, but at the moment, Gruden is 100% correct. He'd be an idiot not to utilize Griffin's total skill set.
tshile
Guest
I agree with you and based on the reactions i've read/heard I think most redskins fans agree with you.
We'll find out if The Griffins agree with you.
We'll find out if The Griffins agree with you.
Lanky Livingston
Guest
Ax
Guest
IMO, you, and lots of others as well, are completely blowing EVERYTHING out of proportion. You're reading too much into what you read, and buying into too much you hear from the media.
And BTW, a handful of quotes, over analyzed, and repeated by them, ad nauseum, does not a tour make. The media has successfully convinced way too many people that every little thing points to the sky falling.
It is not. Turn off the sportstalk radio, ESPN, and step away from the innerwebz. Even if it's all true, you'll live longer if you don't let it consume you.
Cycleans
The Starter
I think the statement was a measured response to the continuous badgering from the media Gruden is certain to face. The obvious off season storyline is going to be how Gruden will use Griffin? I'm fairly certain the FO had a discussion about how he would answer certain questions...Can we agree there? Honestly the most likely answer to that question can't be answered that quick? Gruden will want to look at game tapes maybe extract info from the remaining staff on what went wrong and how to fix it. You think he's had the time to make an accurate assesment. What is the right answer? Any answer that is made with any sort of info will be twisted by the media in hopes of breaking a story.
tshile
Guest
I'm not buying into anything from the media - these quotes are directly form Griffin 3, Griffin 2, and Gruden. The media delivers the quotes, but these are straight from their mouths.
They did multiple interviews. If you don't consider the last offseason a tour so be it.
Sorry if you don't like pointing things out that are current. Likewise, if you don't like it, feel free ignore my posts going forward. I wont miss constantly being told this is all a bunch of made up bullshit. The last coaching staff was fired because of this nonsense. It's not made up. It wasn't made up last offseason despite the overwhelming opinion among redskins fans that it was. It wasn't made up last season. And it wasn't made up when Shanahan and staff was fired to start this off season.
But it's made up now? Guess we'll see.
Lanky Livingston
Guest
You think Shanahan was fired because of Griffin's media tour? I don't think that was the reason, I think he lost the team and a whole lot of games, which is why he was fired.
tshile
Guest
No not because of his media tour, because of the toxic relationship and environment he created around him, kyle, and griffin (and griffin's father?)
He was fired because the team was 3-13 and he created that environment. I don't know how anyone who's followed the team closely (like most here) could look at everything from the Seattle game last year to the firing press conference and not attribute majority of the firing to that environment/relationship Shanahan created.
But hey, maybe I'm just making it all up.
I realize it may seem like I go looking for this shit, but I promise you I don't. I've had more than enough bullshit drama revolving around a completely leaderless and dysfunctional organization to last me the rest of my ****ing lifetime. I'd prefer to have moved on past it.
Cycleans
The Starter
Which quotes are you referring to? Can we add the Shanahan's quotes as well? There were numerous things that went wrong last season with lots of blame to go around...I honestly believe Robert's dad hasn't been all that much of a story when you think about it. That injury to Robert against the Ravens should have resulted in keeping him on the bench until he could play without a brace...History would have certainly been altered enough with Cousins finishing out the season and an entire off season focused on "integrating" Griffin's skill set into a more conventional pass offense over what he did in college.
I got caught up in the moment and wanted Griffin to play if he was healthy....evidently Griffin wasn't honest with himself or anyone else on that matter. It had catastrophic circumstances and put the spotlight on the coaches Griffin and his father or any player anyone that cared to make a commentary on what went wrong. Were all of the quotes and comments made with thought and conscience? Were any of the quotes taken out of context? Did Griffin's fathers comment about "how the Redskin's should find a way to reduce the reliance of the offense on RG3's running..." cause the defense and special teams to play so horrid? For the most part I thought Griffin handled himself well with the media through a very dismal situation. Was he spot on perfect? No but he's still a guy barely old enough to buy a pack of smokes. If there ever was a player in need of coaching and guidance through the messy and volatile times, it was last season. Fast forward to present.
I got caught up in the moment and wanted Griffin to play if he was healthy....evidently Griffin wasn't honest with himself or anyone else on that matter. It had catastrophic circumstances and put the spotlight on the coaches Griffin and his father or any player anyone that cared to make a commentary on what went wrong. Were all of the quotes and comments made with thought and conscience? Were any of the quotes taken out of context? Did Griffin's fathers comment about "how the Redskin's should find a way to reduce the reliance of the offense on RG3's running..." cause the defense and special teams to play so horrid? For the most part I thought Griffin handled himself well with the media through a very dismal situation. Was he spot on perfect? No but he's still a guy barely old enough to buy a pack of smokes. If there ever was a player in need of coaching and guidance through the messy and volatile times, it was last season. Fast forward to present.
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You need to stop personalizing it every time someone disagrees with you tshile. We all do it sometimes, but its not necessary or helpful. You aren't 'always' disagreed with or mocked - lots of folks agree with your general premise and lots don't. But its not personal and all of us need to stop making things personal.
tshile
Guest
That's true and I'll work on it, but there's a lot of 'you's being used in these conversations and this kind of crap was going on last offseason as well - when I and a few others were apparently reading too much into media-drummed-up controversy, not thinking for ourselves, etc. We see how that turned out...
I'll work on it. It's just really annoying to have a group of people immediately discount everything you say as if you didn't even bother to put any thought into it, you're just repeating what was said on the news/radio/internet/tv.
For what it's worth, every single beat reporting and host that I listen to has said this isn't a big deal. No idea what 1067, wapo, or the national media are doing with it.
At this point I really don't give a shit what's being said. What is said for public consumption by coaches, players and media, and the actual underlying facts/circumstances, are two entirely different realities. I think we all know that, message-board culture aside.
Insofar as Robert's and the overall offensive development, what I HOPE is being discussed, considered and formuated behind the scences, are
1) How Robert it going to learn to protect himself--fall down sooner and less awkwardly, avoid cutting back into the field of play instead of getting out of bounds--on those occasions he DOES run, be it on scrambles or called running plays
2) How the new offensive brain trust is going to adjust the schemes to limit Robert's exposure when they DO occasionally call the read option--which they would be foolish NOT to force teams to prepare for week in and week out
The two plays that Bob got hurt on his rookie season were when he didn't get down or out of bounds quickly enough against Cincy, and took a helmet to the head that concussed him ... and then when he didn't get out of bounds or on the ground quickly and/or gracefully enough to avoid having his right leg flopping up in the air as a fat DE plowed into it. Neither of those hits were necessary, and neither was not the fault of the scheme. They both happened because Robert didn't protect himself. By the Seattle game, the knee was week from the Ngota hit and gave out--no surprise. But also not an injury from the play call--the man rolled out, threw off his weakened leg, and aggravated the existing injury.
It's up to Bob (with the help of his coaches) to make protecting himself from unecessary hits a top priority.
It's up to the coaches to help him do that, and also find creative ways to let him use his legs as an advantage, while also developing his 'pocket passing' skills the way you would any QB, regardless of his level of mobility.
Insofar as Robert's and the overall offensive development, what I HOPE is being discussed, considered and formuated behind the scences, are
1) How Robert it going to learn to protect himself--fall down sooner and less awkwardly, avoid cutting back into the field of play instead of getting out of bounds--on those occasions he DOES run, be it on scrambles or called running plays
2) How the new offensive brain trust is going to adjust the schemes to limit Robert's exposure when they DO occasionally call the read option--which they would be foolish NOT to force teams to prepare for week in and week out
The two plays that Bob got hurt on his rookie season were when he didn't get down or out of bounds quickly enough against Cincy, and took a helmet to the head that concussed him ... and then when he didn't get out of bounds or on the ground quickly and/or gracefully enough to avoid having his right leg flopping up in the air as a fat DE plowed into it. Neither of those hits were necessary, and neither was not the fault of the scheme. They both happened because Robert didn't protect himself. By the Seattle game, the knee was week from the Ngota hit and gave out--no surprise. But also not an injury from the play call--the man rolled out, threw off his weakened leg, and aggravated the existing injury.
It's up to Bob (with the help of his coaches) to make protecting himself from unecessary hits a top priority.
It's up to the coaches to help him do that, and also find creative ways to let him use his legs as an advantage, while also developing his 'pocket passing' skills the way you would any QB, regardless of his level of mobility.
tshile
Guest
All of the quotes. There are tons of them, by both him and his father, and it'd be a pain in the ass to go back and grab them all. If I were to try to list them all I'd probably get one (or more) wrong and that wouldn't help the conversation. There were quotes from Griffin 2 about how the offense should/shouldn't be run, and specifically that a running QB is a loser. There were quotes from Griffin 3 about how the organization better start him, how he didn't want to play in preseason (before he wanted to play in preseason), about how he wants to be a pocket qb, how he doesn't want to run, then towards the end comments about not listening coaches and instead being himself (whatever that means), etc.
As for the rest of your post I agree. The whole thing snowballed. Lots of things were taken out of context, exaggerated, etc. They were only made worse by everyone on every side feeling the need to clarify - which turned into more out of context quotes and exaggeration. It literally snowballed. That's why a team that went 10-6 and seemed on a path to being a solid team went 3-13 - after so many weeks you can't even really look at the games anymore, the whole team fell apart. The environment became completely toxic.
It went from - do you write this year off and give Shanahan his final year? - to - there's absolutely no way you can bring back Shanahan because of the situation with the quarterback and his father, you have to go get someone else, it's not really an option at this point.
So it's really easy to say 3-13 is why he's fired, but if you paid attention over the last year there was a whole crap ton of other stuff going on that contributed to the end result.
If they were 3-13 with just bad play and no drama, I think Shanahan would have gotten his final chance (though I think if there was no drama they would have been more like 5-11 or 6-12, which would have definitely meant he came back)
Ax
Guest
Breath in, breath out.
I find nothing extraordinary about any of the quotes in question. And the media might not always invent the quotes, but they make damn sure to suggest that they hold the most dire meanings. Because they've created the notion that everything matters. It dosen't.
There was no tour. No matter how you slice it.
And calling conclusions/interpretations to situations, bullshit, is not saying they didn't happen. Just that the conclusions/interpretation/analysis is. There are sure to be disagreements.
I would never ignore your posts. I am interested in yours, and most everyone else's around here. That doesn't mean I have to agree with them.
There was no personal ridicule intended.
Shanahan was fired because he got lousy results. He was overrated coming in, and it's good that he's gone. Robert, or his family had nothing to do with it. If they did, then Shanny was even more gutless as a head coach than I already believe.
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