Dopey May Strike Again?

[Ax]

Davis' contract is a 'prove yourself' contract - both the organization and davis have publicly admitted that. It's anything but a reward.

If it was for league minimum, I'd agree. Average of top 5 salaries? Not so much.

 

[tshile]

Thats the rule for franchising a player...
you don't have a choice. thats what you pay for having the ability to keep a player who you otherwise cannot negotiate a contract with...

The other option was to let him walk. Which I don't think was a good option, although it's better than a long term deal.

edit: no player wants a 1 year deal... 'prove yourself' means 1 year deal. they want long term guaranteed money. he didn't get that...

landry also got a prove yourself deal. the catch is it was with the jets, not us, because we let him walk. i don't think we're in a position to let davis walk...

 

[Ax]

Thats the rule for franchising a player...
you don't have a choice. thats what you pay for having the ability to keep a player who you otherwise cannot negotiate a contract with...

The other option was to let him walk. Which I don't think was a good option, although it's better than a long term deal.

I understand that. I'd let him walk.

Even though he brought us a Championship.

Oh wait, that wasn't him.

 

[tshile]

Yeah, good idea. We're so well stocked with play makers and all, just let him walk.
We'll let the injured and not quite sure he can every play a full season again chris cooley take over

or we can use that Niles Paul guy who's never played TE before

we also have paulsen. he didn't look half bad.

edit:
sarcasm aside, paulsen did look pretty good
and i completely respect your viewpoint. i makes perfect sense to take a stand on that and at least say you wont resign players who have these problems.
i just don't think it makes sense for our franchise right now. i think what we did makes the most sense. but at this point it's a difference in a opinion.

 

[Ax]

i just don't think it makes sense for our franchise right now.

I certainly understand your viewpoint.

But I'd ask, if not now, when?

I don't think it says much if we wait until we're stocked well enough to handle the loss of a player, before setting a tone for how things are going to be around here. I believe you set the tone first, and have everyone adhere to it from the start.

Side Note: If it isn't allowed already, it should be. And that's language written into every contract that voids it, should the team desire to shed the brain dead. With full recovery of all bonus monies.

Bet that would put an end to the ignorance.

 

[Elephant]

wait so two guys do the same thing and you want to treat them differently? I don't agree with that.

Trent Williams does not have the same history of indiscretion that Fred Davis does so no it is not the same thing!

Davis wasn't 'rewarded' with that contract. It was a one year deal. He wanted a 5-6 year deal with that kind of money. He got one year. That means he has to do it again, and hope someone will still give him the money. That's a punishment. Most players just need to do that once, and get the big contract; hence the entire saying 'it's a contract year' when they reference players who put up big numbers in that situation. he now has to put two 'contract years' together, back to back.

Dude, he was given 5 million dollars after being suspended. 5 million dollars is a reward! He had one solid season filling in for Cooley and then shined last season. He has all the potential in the world, but he continues to show lack of discipline...i.e, DUI, benched for discipline reasons, smoking pot, altercation in a bar throwing a glass of wine in a woman's face.

You have to take the whole picture into account, not just his potential.

Davis' contract is a 'prove yourself' contract - both the organization and davis have publicly admitted that. It's anything but a reward.

I fully understand what the front office was doing when they tagged him. What you fail to understand or don't want to see or simply value less than I do is that this player has repeatedly been lazy and has committed crimes dating back to his days at USC. You can minimize his indiscretions because of his talent all you want, but I would not run a team, business or whatever like that.

People deserve second chances, that's why I would not have cut Trent. However, there are times a message needs to be sent when you have a player that repeatedly displays a lack of discipline, you don't give them a multi-million dollar contract. Fred Davis is one of them, especially when the front office and coaching staff said they wanted to bring in character guys! It ain't rocket science!

 

[TomE]

Steinberg at the WaPo has a little "fun".

Too bad the interwebz wasn't all ablaze back then, we could'a had lots-o-fun.

Remember when the Redskins had character?


I’ll just limit this to the first Gibbs era, which means I can’t use that time in 1993 when the owner’s wife “was seen hurtling down M Street NW in Georgetown with a man clinging to the hood of her Jaguar convertible and pounding the windshield.”


January 18, 1992

Washington Redskins tackle Ed Simmons, 28, was arrested for driving while intoxicated early yesterday morning in Georgetown. A police spokesman said Simmons was stopped during a routine patrol in the 3300 block of M Street at about 2:30 a.m.

He was issued a citation for DWI and released. A court date will be set later. Simmons met with Coach Joe Gibbs before yesterday’s practice and apologized for the incident.

August 23, 1991

Washington Redskins running back Brian Mitchell was arrested and charged with driving while intoxicated early yesterday on the Dulles Toll Road near Herndon, the Fairfax County prosecutor’s office said. He was taken to the Fairfax County Adult Detention Center and released....

“I did something stupid,” he said. “I drank some beers and tried to drive home. I’m sorry about it.” As a first-time offender under the NFL’s new drunk driving policy, he faces a possible four-game suspension.

November 21 1990

Redskins H-back Jimmie Johnson has agreed to do about 10 hours of community service work at a Loudoun County drug-addiction treatment facility in exchange for having two handgun charges dropped.

Johnson was arrested near his home in Sterling three weeks ago and charged with concealing a weapon and firing a handgun within 100 yards of a state highway.

June 21, 1990

Washington Redskins offensive lineman Mark May was sentenced to two days in jail yesterday after pleading guilty in Fairfax County General District Court to driving while intoxicated.

It was May’s second drunken-driving conviction in five years, which under Virginia law results in an automatic jail term of at least two days and a three-year suspension of the driver’s license.

May’s previous conviction was in 1985 in Arlington.

March 17, 1990

Barry Wilburn, a veteran Washington Redskins defensive back who underwent three weeks of treatment at a drug and alcohol rehabilitation center last fall, was arrested early Wednesday morning and charged with driving while intoxicated and with a suspended license.

Wilburn, 26, was arrested by Virginia state police and taken to the Fairfax Adult Detention Center at 4:45 a.m. Wednesday.

November 20, 1989

On Saturday, Dexter Manley, 31, was banned indefinitely by the National Football League because of three violations of the league’s substance abuse policy, the last for testing positive for cocaine. He may apply for reinstatement in a year, but for now, he seems to have reached a personal denouement.

May 10, 1987

It was the day after Christmas, and Dexter Manley was in trouble. Again. This time, the Washington Redskins’ loose-lipped, all-pro defensive end was AWOL from a team meeting and practice, only two days before a wild card playoff game against the Los Angeles Rams. While his teammates labored at Redskin Park, Manley snoozed in his nearby townhouse, feeling the effects of a late-night binge with gin and tonic.

June 21, 1986

Washington Redskins offensive guard Russ Grimm, who told a state trooper he had been judging an Irish coffee contest before he was arrested on I-66 last March, pleaded guilty yesterday in a Fairfax County court to a charge of driving while under the influence, the prosecutor said.

Grimm was sentenced in General District Court to a $400 fine, with $300 suspended, and a 10-day suspended jail term, according to Assistant Commonwealth’s Attorney John Holloran. He said Grimm could have received up to $1,000 fine and 12 months in jail for the misdemeanor offense.

June 18, 1986

Washington Redskins cornerback Vernon Dean yesterday was found guilty of obstructing justice after a Fairfax County police officer testified that it took four officers and a chokehold to restrain Dean because of his “offensive manner.”

Judge Richard T. Horan gave Dean a $100 suspended fine on the misdemeanor charge, which arose out of a domestic dispute along Leesburg Pike May 16 between Dean, 27, and his fiance.

May 16, 1986

[Jim] Huddleston, a graduate of the University of Virginia who was chosen in the sixth round, was arrested twice in a year and a half, first for assault and battery and public drunkenness in an incident with a professor in February 1984, then for indecent exposure for allegedly urinating off a balcony in August 1985.

He was convicted of the 1984 charges and suspended from the Cavaliers football team for the 1984 season. He pleaded not guilty to the 1985 charge and was convicted of disorderly conduct.

September 8, 1984

Mat Mendenhall, a defensive end now on the Redskins’ injured reserve list, pleaded guilty Thursday in General District Court in Loudoun County, Va., to a charge of driving while intoxicated. He was fined $100 and ordered to attend an Alcohol Safety Action Program.

Mendenhall was arrested Aug. 18 after his van hit a curb and sideswiped a road sign as he was driving south on Rte. 15 near Leesburg. He was not injured.

August 4, 1983

Washington Redskins safety Tony Peters was arrested by federal agents yesterday at the team’s Carlisle, Pa., training camp and charged with acting as a middle man in a conspiracy with seven other people to sell $115,000 worth of cocaine in the Washington area.

April 1, 1983

Clarence Harmon, the Washington Redskins’ veteran running back, was released from a Texarkana, Tex., jail on $10,000 bond yesterday after having been arrested during a drug raid Wednesday night and charged with possession of cocaine

 

[GSF]

I am not for cutting Williams...although it was numerous test failures, I view it as one offense.

Davis on the other hand, should have been cut. That's what the team could have done, especially when the coach preaches to us about character. Davis had multiple offenses culminating in a huge contract... You call that punishment enough?

Oh and how do you know he was expecting more? His contract is as high as just about any TE in the league. He has done nothing to warrant the money Gonkowski or even an over the hill Gonzales get.

Did you watch the games? Davis was a beast before the suspension. He had top 5 numbers in most categories after 12 weeks. His tds were lower, but the Skins couldn't get the ball in the endzone to save their lives. Davis came in 8th in yards and 12th in receptions on the year and missed 1/4 of the season. He was also 3rd on the season in yards per game, and 3rd on the season in plays of 20+ yards. The only TEs that were ahead of Davis in yards per game and plays of 20+ yards were Gronk and Jimmy Graham, and they had Brady and Brees throwing to them, not Grossman and Beck lol. Davis was the only Skins receiver making big plays last year. What are you going to replace that with, 30 year old, injured Cooley?

Davis probably is a top 5 TE right now. In my mind you have Gronk, Graham, Hernandez, Vernon Davis, and then probably Fred. Whitten, Gonzalez, and Gates are all getting up there.

My guess is the reason why they franchised him b/c they were concerned about the off-field stuff, so they gave him a 1 year prove it contract. If he breaks out big, like I predict he will, they will give him the long term contract. If he screws up again, which I predict he won't, then they'll have to let him go. This is smart management.

To cut a top 5 TE, or even a top 10 TE, to send a message would be absolutely asinine. Especially when you don't have a good replacement on the roster. The only message it sends is that the coach is more concerned with his disciplinarian image than he is about winning. It would only serve to piss off the rest of the players, and could lead to all kinds of problems. Thank goodness Shanny is way too smart for this non-sense. Shanny has his QB now, and his eye the prize. That's his focus

 

[Ax]

How conveniently cute TomE. Lot of change in 20 years. But why stop there? Go back another 20 and DUI didn't exist. You could get pulled over with an open beer between your legs and not even get a ticket.

Save it for Dr. Phil dude.

 

[Elephant]

No GSF, I did not watch a single game all season! ***sarcasm alert***

We have already agreed to disagree so don't come back into the conversation and hurl insults.

Again, we have differing views on this. What I find most disturbing about your point of view is that you apparently have a win at any cost way of thinking. It doesn't matter that you are dealing with young men who obviously have lost or never possessed rational thinking. Young men who could go on making the same mistakes unless there is something or someone who will step in. And yes, I am talking about more than a 4 game suspension at the end of a lost season.

In Sleepy's case, he has repeatedly made mistakes, showing he lacks the maturity it takes to last an entire season as a starter in the NFL. You want to rest your starting TE position on someone who has yet to start (Mainly because his attitude and indiscretions) an entire season in the NFL? He is not stable!

But you think because he put up good numbers last year, he should be given the benefit of the doubt and paid like a top 5 TE. Forgive me, but top 5 TE's in this league do not miss time because of poor decisions!

Jimmy Graham
Brandon Pettigrew
Rob Gronkowski
Aaron Hernandez
Anthony Gonzales
Jason Whitten

Those players deserve the money. Fred Davis does not!

 

[isle-hawg]

I want Williams and Davis to come back, have all pro seasons for years to come. Having said that how ****ing stupid are they??

In the military one (1) failed test = dishonorable discharge (reason being in part because they can't follow orders/be trusted in the military's eyes). These guys have multiple failures yet some seem to think that those of us who consider them extremely high risk are making a big deal about nothing - their repeated bad judgement is no reason for us to be concerned for their future?

For those that think this is no (character) issue I ask what if this happened to you in your line of work? How many chances (drug test failures) do you get before getting fired? Taking a wild ass guess, probably less then 10 in the same year??

I understand everyone is not subject to drug tests to keep their job, my question is aimed at those of us who are.

A knock on Williams in his draft class was his work ethic. Davis is remembered for sleeping though first day of training camp. Seems to me they both have great talent but their question marks still linger at least for me.

 

[fansince62]

I want to Williams and Davis to come back, have all pro seasons for years to come. Having said that how ****ing stupid are they??

In the military one (1) failed test = dishonorable discharge. These guys have multiple failures yet some seem to think that is no big deal.

For those that think this is no issue (multiple drug test failures) I ask what if this happened to you in your line of work? How many chances (drug test failures) do you get before getting fired?

I understand everyone is not subject to drug tests to keep their job, my question is aimed at those of us who are.

isle-h...not endorsing the concept....that said...we live in a society in which many want to legalize pot. it's big business in places like CA and CO. TW and FD are receiving those messages.

 

[Elephant]

Ultimately, I am like Isle Hawg. Now that these guys are going to be here, my hope is that they both get the point and have tremendous careers. I stand by my belief that it would have been in everyone's best interest to send Davis packing. That is all!

 

[GSF]

hurl insults? not my intent Elephant so I'm sorry you took it that way. I too was being sarcastic. Anyways....we'll see what happens with these guys. I believe they'll be fine....

 

[Elephant]

hurl insults? not my intent Elephant so I'm sorry you took it that way. I too was being sarcastic. Anyways....we'll see what happens with these guys. I believe they'll be fine....

Appreciate that GSF. I hope Davis has 75 catches or more if he is indeed our starter, but to be honest I would like to see Cooley have the big season. I have always been a big fan of his and would enjoy watching him have at least another good season or 4.

 

[servumtuum]

Cooley's problems are injury and age related so the idea of his returning to top form may be somewhat problematical-I'd like to see it myself-just have to wait and see, I guess.

I remember the scandal that erupted in 1963 when Paul Hornung and Alex Karras wound up being suspended by then commissioner Pete Rozelle for betting on NFL games. Hornung admited his mistake and took corrective action by avoiding Las Vegas and -according to Hornung-Vince Lombardi's intense lobbying of Rozelle got him reinstated. Karras agreed to stop gambling and was reinstated also.

This kind of "questionable behavior" thing isn't anything new to the NFL and the money aspect definitely plays a role in the lifestyle changes that players adopt-probably moreso now than ever. My point is the telling of the tale will be to what extent a player's on-the-field abilities, considerable in the case of Hornung and Karras, will be a factor in how the situation is handled by the HC now that the threat of long-term suspension looms. In the cases of Fred and Trent-they have, IMO, much less of a performance window to work with in order to maintain their starting roles. They're on a sort leash and I am prepared for either compliance or nion-compliance in both cases and I think it's likely Allen/Shanahan are also.