Could it be Tua?

[Primus Porcus]

Arm strength?


Pfft!

48 yard bullett in stride!




I'm sorry, but after watching that again, then remembering watching about 8 of their games in his sophomore year, and another few before his injury this past year, and there is no doubt in my mind that a HEALTHY Tua is a far better QB than Haskins.

NFL is blocking it, but go to youtube and search 'the terry mclauring catch that got called back'

the first hit is against the Jets, Haskins steps up and slides left and launches it to Terry.


Tua put his whole body into that throw... Haskins made the same throw across his body on the run.


To elaborate on the conversation.

I have no doubt that Tua is a better FOOTBALL prospect than Haskins. Problem is that is only a piece of the puzzle. Tua has some major questions regarding injury, something we have struggled with over 2 years... mightily. Even if he stays 100% healthy, how long is his career? I don't see him lasting 10 - 12 seasons in the NFL as an impact type player. The injuries he's could weigh on him big time as he gets older, and I'm not talking 37 years old older, i'm taking 27 years old. IMHO he will slow down quite a bit faster due to the injuries he has had from Arthritis, and other lingering aches and pains. His body type is not conducive to a long career in the NFL as well. Brees is an anomaly, and as a comp, he's the best we can hope for regarding health... but that's not a sure thing in the least.

Add to that the fact that we will never recoup our initial investment of the no. 15 pick for Haskins, it basically throws away that pick. We would be lucky to get a 2nd round pick for him.

To further make me pause... we would then be using the no. 2 pick in the draft, when we could be drafting a potential difference making player, or using it as currency to add multiple starting caliber players.

So i have to ask myself, is it swapping the no. 15 pick in 2019 for a 2nd round pick, missing out on Chase Young, or multiple picks to take multiple players, AND you can only expect him (imho) for about 5 - 7 years of quality starting play? I don't see the return on that.

 

[Boone]

All good stuff. But the concern about never ‘recouping’ the Haskins pick - that cannot enter into the equation. If it was a blown pick it was a blown pick. I’m not near ready to call it that. But whether or not we use the next top pick on Chase Young, another QB or do something else will not alter whether or not that pick was correct or not. Presumably if they did shock us all and draft Tua or Burrow, Haskins is on the trade block and what we get for him is current market value. It likely wouldn’t be a first rounder which might have more to do with where he should’ve been drafted than anything else.

Again, likely this is all misdirection and will be a non-event when all is said and done but fun to discuss.

 

[Henry]

I think it's probably important to say this out loud. The Redskins are gonna suck next year. More importantly, the offense is going to SUUUUUUUUCK.

The Redskins are not a player away. They are not five players away. There is a LOT of work to do.

Foodling about with the QB position adds more work. It will set the team back. Spending a first rounder on a QB two years in a row will set the team back. Starting a 36 year-old with no future on a team that's going to win 4 games will set the team back. This team has very few things going for it right now. One of those few things is that the Redskins know who the QB is next year, so the team can actually worry about other things. Maybe Haskins will suck. Maybe he won't. But the time to find out is at the beginning of a rebuild, when bad QB play won't mess with the Window. If he sucks. Draft a QB in a few years when the rest of the team is further along and the team knows what it's looking for. If he doesn't suck. Yay.

But this team needs to stop over-thinking things, stop hemming and hawing indecisively over everything (especially at QB) and show some maturity and patience for once.

I get the need to wrap one's head around moves over which we have no control. I don't begrudge anyone trying to find silver lining. But I'm personally way past that with the Redskins. If the they Tua I will hope for the best. If they start Smith (I can't believe I'm even typing that out) I will hope for the best.

But I will not expect much. Those types of moves would indicate that Bruce Allen wasn't really the problem here, and front office incompetency is far more entrenched than that. And that would be too bad.

 

[Henry]

All good stuff. But the concern about never ‘recouping’ the Haskins pick - that cannot enter into the equation. If it was a blown pick it was a blown pick. I’m not near ready to call it that. But whether or not we use the next top pick on Chase Young, another QB or do something else will not alter whether or not that pick was correct or not.

Oh I don't think it's that simple. QB development depends greatly on organizational stability. Good teams with good front offices seem to magically find good QBs, but it's more than that. It's support, development ... a whole range of things I don't even know about. And good teams ... hell, even average teams just. don't. abandon QBs after a handful of games. Literally the ONLY other team that has ever done that is the Cardinals. The Cardinals. The Arizona Cardinals. A team that has enjoyed five winning seasons over the past 20 years. And the jury's still out on that one.

Let's say it. The Redskins are a terrible organization. They make horrible front office moves. Ditching Haskins after one year would not be definitive proof that Haskins was a blown pick, even if Haskins never recovered. The Redskins have a long and glorious history of botching the QB position and ruining careers. This would just be business as usual.

I tend to agree with you that this is all a smokescreen, by the way. I can't imagine even the Redskins being that stupid. But since we're talking about it ...

 

[Primus Porcus]

All good stuff. But the concern about never ‘recouping’ the Haskins pick - that cannot enter into the equation. If it was a blown pick it was a blown pick. I’m not near ready to call it that. But whether or not we use the next top pick on Chase Young, another QB or do something else will not alter whether or not that pick was correct or not. Presumably if they did shock us all and draft Tua or Burrow, Haskins is on the trade block and what we get for him is current market value. It likely wouldn’t be a first rounder which might have more to do with where he should’ve been drafted than anything else.

Again, likely this is all misdirection and will be a non-event when all is said and done but fun to discuss.

It's only a 'blown' pick if you think Haskins is a failed pick.

If Haskins has the ability to be a professional QB in this league, and you're taking Tua with the idea of Upgrade because Haskins can play, but Tua is that much better... then you have to factor the pick into the equation.

Haskins is not a bust... He's not a blown pick... yet.

 

[MikefromOH]

I think it's probably important to say this out loud. The Redskins are gonna suck next year. More importantly, the offense is going to SUUUUUUUUCK.

I don't think it is important to say that. It is perfectly OK for people to have hope and want to think we can be good. Its the reason we continue to come back year after year.

But, I get that you are beat down and negative. It is understandable. But, it is your opinion.

I will root on week 1 like I do every year. I will take my annual pics with my boys in our new shirts, I will drink at my bar out of my mug, and I will yell at the TV for 16 weeks like every year since I was a boy.

It is also OK to believe that AP, McLaurin, and the TE we pick up will make things exciting. It is OK to think those things. We are not wrong for thinking it any more than you are for thinking they suck.

 

[fansince62]

With that comment Boone...you have me doubting everything I psoted!

 

[Elephant]

Tua put his whole body into that throw... Haskins made the same throw across his body on the run.

Didn't say Tua had a stronger arm than Haskins...just pointing out the kid has a strong arm too.

That was a 48 yard pass thrown in stride coming off the bench in the 4th Q to win a National Championship in OT.

Haskins has never made a throw like that, under those circumstances.

 

[Primus Porcus]

Didn't say Tua had a stronger arm than Haskins...just pointing out the kid has a strong arm too.

That was a 48 yard pass thrown in stride coming off the bench in the 4th Q to win a National Championship in OT.

Haskins has never made a throw like that, under those circumstances.

I know, just a bit of needling

 

[Elephant]

Been hearing this for 40 years now and it has yet to happen.

No you haven't...we are seeing a different type of QB. The NFL has never seen a QB like Patrick Mahomes...he's a completely different breed than just a running QB. And if you cannot see it's happening right in front of you, you're not watching the NFL.

 

[Elephant]

He didn’t stand in the way of Gruden moving on from RG3 when it needed to happen. Just sayin’...

Oh yes he did, but eventually gave way.

 

[fansince62]

Al was talking about fitting the Mahomes/Jackson model.

As far as Tua goes, I thought I heard it reported that it would take a good year for them to even know if he was getting normal blood flow back in his hip?

If that's the case, let somebody else take that gamble.

DP...IRT MaHomes/Jackson...my thought process is that Haskins doesn't fit that model; ergo, Riverboat/Son of Turner will have to employ different concepts and schemes into their offense to be successful. And that is their sword to fall on....or succeed.

 

[fansince62]

He didn’t stand in the way of Gruden moving on from RG3 when it needed to happen. Just sayin’...

When the vase is broken...it's an easy decision to buy a new one! Shanahans killed that guy's career before it started...RGIII only worsened things.

 

[fansince62]

You start the best player. Period. Age and surgeries should not matter as long as the talent and durability are there.

Don't forget production Mike. That matters most.

 

[Elephant]

When the vase is broken...it's an easy decision to buy a new one! Shanahans killed that guy's career before it started...RGIII only worsened things.

We all over estimated that guy's talent. He is a one trick pony that we never should have invested a single pick on. Shanahan got the most out of that kid, RG3 killed himself. Over inflated self worth is a horrible trait to have as a QB.

And you'd think he'd learned his lesson, but as a backup QB in the NFL he's now grown a backbone again and is all over Twitter telling the rest of the NFL players in the union how poorly they're being treated by the owners.

 

[Henry]

I don't think it is important to say that. It is perfectly OK for people to have hope and want to think we can be good. Its the reason we continue to come back year after year.

But, I get that you are beat down and negative. It is understandable. But, it is your opinion.

I will root on week 1 like I do every year. I will take my annual pics with my boys in our new shirts, I will drink at my bar out of my mug, and I will yell at the TV for 16 weeks like every year since I was a boy.

It is also OK to believe that AP, McLaurin, and the TE we pick up will make things exciting. It is OK to think those things. We are not wrong for thinking it any more than you are for thinking they suck.

This isn't really about whether or not it's ok to be positive. Of course it's ok to be optimistic or whatever. I think we all hope for the best. I'm personally hoping to be wrong about everything, and that the Redskins will surprise us all and win the superbowl next year.

But when we are talking about whether the front office is making good or bad moves ... "Hey, anything can happen" is a terrible place to start from. That's when we have to look at reality, and understand a 3-win team experiencing massive front office turnover is not the conventional template for "We're on the cusp of greatness." When talking about what to do moving forward, we need to base things on where we are and not what we hope could happen if everything works out better than it should.

Again, I don't begrudge anyone trying to find the silver lining. But that's not what this is about. It's about what the correct moves are based on where this team actually is. This team is coming off the worst offensive performance in modern Washington Redskin history. This team was the second-worst team in the league last year. This team fired it's coach after five games and it's GM after the season ended. Those are all facts. That's where we start from.

 

[MikefromOH]

Don't forget production Mike. That matters most.

the last time he played we were 6-2 and leading the division.

 

[fansince62]

I could not disagree with this post any more...Mahomes and Jackson are 2 very, very different QB's. Mahomes is more in the mold of Drew Brees, Russell Wilson, and Aaron Rodgers...but probably better. He is a pocket QB who is so quick he has the ability to change on the fly and does, often.

While Jackson has the athleticism to do much the same, they cater to his ability to run like a RB in that system in Baltimore. Jackson runs run plays that are called runs, and it opens up a lot for their offense. They are running a read option of sorts in Baltimore. Lamar Jackson could never go into KC and run that West Coast offense the way Mahomes does...it's not his style.

Jackson will be a decent QB, but the NFL will catch up to him. Mahomes is an outstanding QB who can escape pressure with his elusiveness...this is the new NFL mold for QB's. This is becoming the norm.

Kyler Murray, Baker Mayfield, Tua Tagovoiloa, Josh Allen, Gardner Minshew, Deshaun Watson, Russell Wilson...this is the future of the NFL. Good QB's with great quickness...none are running backs playing QB...They are QB's who can run it.

The Tom Brady's of the NFL will be obsolete the faster and faster the big guys on defense get. Did you watch any of them run the 40? You had 280-300lb men run ing 4.7 40's. There was a LB who weighs 245 running a 4.3 40 and a few a little lighter, and many that size running 4.4's.

The NFL QB has to adjust to that, and we see that transformation happening right now.

Some thoughts El (just for fun; and you make a good argument)
- MaHomes knee cap almost became a table ornament; there may be adaptation/evolution as you say, but not without risk
- per your thought process, o-line should evolve as well to meet the defensive changes


I do agree with your primary oberservation and wonder when it will all overcome the game: you now have larger DBs, with long arms, more weight and lightening speed/quickness. I'm surprised we haven't seen more Sean Taylors at the safety position. Proves how unique his attributes were. But I still exepct it to happen.

 

[MikefromOH]

This isn't really about whether or not it's ok to be positive. Of course it's ok to be optimistic or whatever. I think we all hope for the best. I'm personally hoping to be wrong about everything, and that the Redskins will surprise us all and win the superbowl next year.

But when we are talking about whether the front office is making good or bad moves ... "Hey, anything can happen" is a terrible place to start from. That's when we have to look at reality, and understand a 3-win team experiencing massive front office turnover is not the conventional template for "We're on the cusp of greatness." When talking about what to do moving forward, we need to base things on where we are and not what we hope could happen if everything works out better than it should.

Again, I don't begrudge anyone trying to find the silver lining. But that's not what this is about. It's about what the correct moves are based on where this team actually is. This team is coming off the worst offensive performance in modern Washington Redskin history. This team was the second-worst team in the league last year. This team fired it's coach after five games and it's GM after the season ended. Those are all facts. That's where we start from.

No, it is not a terrible place to start from. everyone does it. The Rams did it when Kurt Warner took over. The Pats did it when Brady took over. The 9ers did it when they let Montana go.

You seemed adamant that we "must" realize that we will "SUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCK". you continued with it like if we didnt it was an issue. It isn't. We are allowed to root and have hope. It is why people come back year after year.

We are coming off the worst year with a President who sucked, a HC who had given up and was running the team like his own lunchroom drama committee, and a team that had no leader. We have a hell of a lot better now and its OK to admit that.

 

[fansince62]

the last time he played we were 6-2 and leading the division.

And his play declined with each successive game. Not all his fault. But it was obvious...at least to me.