Could it be Tua?

[Boone]

Twitter going absolutely ape-shit tonight as there are rumors from supposedly reputable sources that the Redskins could draft Tua and let Haskins and him battle it out for the starting job. Of course this could be a ploy to sweeten a trade down deal. But JP Finlay and others feel this could be more than that.

I love Haskins arm and size and think he could develop into a very effective QB. But as I've said here before, I do worry about his mental game as he seems overly concerned with criticism and more focused on social media at times than improving as a QB. That may turn out to be nothing to be concerned about. As others have said, he is a very young man and may grow out of some of the immaturity that's been evident since being drafted.

On the other hand - Tua would've been the #1 pick in last year's draft (and it wouldn't have been close) had he come out, and except for the injury and Burrow's historic year, he'd be the #1 pick this year. I've been telling you all that his hip would be just fine, and I believe it is or soon will be. I don't think his health is an issue. But I'm not an NFL GM - and there are some recent NFL players who've experienced a dislocated hip and had the injury recur, shortening their NFL careers in the process. Even with health concerns, if you're sitting at #2 with Burrow reportedly a shoe-in to be selected #1, you do have to think, are we really going to pass on one of the best college QBs in the modern era because we have Dwayne Haskins?

Starting to think there may be serious consideration going on here. Remember - Rivera had nothing to do with the selection of Dwayne Haskins. If he doesn't feel he's the guy to carry the Redskins forward at QB, all bets are off. Also keep in mind, while the Redskins might be quite concerned about the long-term health of Tua and shy away from him for those concerns, Ron Rivera is under immense pressure to win soon. Whether or not Tua has a long career or not, isn't on his top 10 list of worries. He'd likely be looking at which QB, Haskins or Tua, can win soon. Based on their history and half a year of Haskins tape, the answer may not favor Dwayne Haskins.

 

[Bulldog]

The problem will be the same here as for Arizona. Taking a quarterback high two years in a row is going to result in this team making a slower progression from 4th in the NFC East as other areas of the team don't receive the benefit of that A-1 prospect in 2020. We will get less in return for Haskins than the Cardinals got for Rosen.

I understand some like Kiper think the quarterback is position is everything and solving that to the point of 100% certainty is Job #1, the truth is HOF passers such as Drew Brees and Aaron Rodgers only have 1 Super Bowl championship because their teams over time haven't been able to find dominant players at other positions of need on the OL or defense.

The only way I take Tua at #2 is if I think there is near definite agreement that Dwayne Haskins is NOT on track to be a franchise quarterback in the NFL or close to it.

 

[DieselPwr44]

Call me naive but I don't think Rivera and Kyle Smith are that dumb.

All smoke. It is draft(silly) season.

 

[Boone]

That would normally be my assumption. But I think there are legitimate questions as to how Rivera views Haskins. One can argue he's been engaged in some 'tough love' and an effort to motivate Haskins (who should require no motivation) in refusing to make it clear Haskins would be the starter in 2020. Or maybe he really does have doubts. We have doubts (well - most of us anyway) so it shouldn't be some giant mental leap to assume that Rivera has some serious doubts.

You're characterizing it as though, were Rivera/Smith to draft Tua , that would be a 'dumb' move. That's only true if Haskins is the real deal. If he proves not to be, letting a potentially great QB you were in position to draft get drafted by another team might be a fireable offense down the road.

I'm just sayin'...

And I'll say one other thing. If this proves not to be 'silly season' manuevering, and they do draft Tua, I'll back that all day long. We brought in Rivera to change the culture (part of which, apparently, includes our megalomaniac owner directing the team which QB to draft). I won't bitch at whatever decisions he makes in that vein.

 

[Henry]

The Redskins aren't going to draft a QB.

Seriously, though. I'd like to think bone-headed, short-sighted, wheel-spinning decisions went the way of Bruce Allen ... at least for a year or so before Dan Snyder starts vetoing his coach.

I could be wrong, but I really hope not.

 

[Boone]

90% chance you're right. I'm not endorsing drafting a QB again. At some level, drafting QB in the first round two years in a row screams 'organizational incompetence'.

But ... restating...

1) Rivera has zero culpability for the Haskins pick, and zero emotional attachment there. He didn't pick him. Possible he may not want him leading his team.
2) Rivera has more stated authority than any modern Redskins coach than perhaps Gibbs himself.
3) If he thinks Haskins is a bust in the waiting, not taking Tua would be incompetent, not doubling down on the wrong guy.
4) Finding the right QB is the most long-term pursuit you can engage in. No decision has more ramifications than who your franchise QB is going to be.

 

[Win4us]

Horrible idea if they go the Tua route. Not only would we miss out on Chase Young but more importantly we’d miss a possible trade down acquiring a booty of picks that could catapult us into contention. At least jumpstart the team on that trajectory at minimum.

On top of causing a very unneeded QB controversy it completely fails to address the plethora of holes we have across the roster. On 2nd thought this would be a complete “redskin” move that falls in line with Bruce’s legacy. Would not surprise me a bit to see it happen.

If Dwayne gets pissed off and requests a trade I for one do not blame him one bit. No one would want a job that continuously tries to replace you for the job they hired YOU to do. Can’t see a way this doesn’t backfire on Rivera, and if he does decide Tua at #2 he owns it 100%.

 

[Henry]

You're characterizing it as though, were Rivera/Smith to draft Tua , that would be a 'dumb' move. That's only true if Haskins is the real deal. If he proves not to be, letting a potentially great QB you were in position to draft get drafted by another team might be a fireable offense down the road.

So if it's the right move it's the right move? Oddly, that wasn't the case when we drafted both Griffin and Cousins. I remember someone on this board voicing concerns about that at the time ... I forget who ...

But they both played well, which frankly is rather amazing, and it still didn't work out. Part of that was because by the time we realized Cousins was a solid player, his contract was up. Timing is important with these things. The draft is a good place to find talent because you can audition players for cheap. And you can't audition two Futures of the Franchise at the same time. We know this from very recent first-hand experience.

And that's not even taking into account that the Redskins would be all but guaranteeing to waste at least one first rounder. Either Haskins or Tua. Throw one of those picks out the window. Gone. Wasted.

This team is rebuilding and can't afford that. The Redskins need their first rounders to pan out, or at LEAST give them a solid chance to pan out. If it is truly a New Day in Washington, they won't pull a stunt like this. There are so many reasons not to.

And I'll say one other thing. If this proves not to be 'silly season' manuevering, and they do draft Tua, I'll back that all day long. We brought in Rivera to change the culture (part of which, apparently, includes our megalomaniac owner directing the team which QB to draft). I won't bitch at whatever decisions he makes in that vein.

Not like we have any choice, right? I'll hope for the best no matter what they do.

But if the Redskins do something that stupid, I'll be expecting the worst.

 

[Boone]

If they draft Tua - there IS no QB competition brudda. That would absolutely be an unequivocal 'Haskins is not the guy' move regardless of how they try to soften the blow. And you can't mourn missing out on Chase Young and trading down for a bevy of picks at the same time - can you? At least one of those options is off the table. Here's a scenario (however unlikely it may be, anything is possible) just to consider.

3 seasons from now...

- Chase Young was drafted with the 3rd pick and is a very good player. But nowhere near the game-changing pass rusher everyone swore he'd be.
- Tua is a budding star whose play is elevating everyone around him. On another team.
- Dwayne Haskins is still struggling to throw for more than 200 yds and complete more than 50% of his passes consistently.

If that were to be the reality, would we look back and say 'Thank God the Redskins didn't draft that Tua kid'?

Everyone bases their thought-process on what are facts. Chase Young is a game-changing talent we'd be crazy to pass on. Haskins will get it and continue to progress eventually being a franchise QB. Tua is injury prone and there's no way the Redskins should make that kind of risky pick. Those all sound like facts. But they aren't facts. They are assumptions.

Again - not suggesting this would be the correct course. I have no idea. I am suggesting it may be on the table.

 

[Henry]

Boone, but drafting Tua makes the path to justifying that move very narrow. Tua HAS to work out, and Haskins and Young HAVE to be bad in order to justify a rebuilding team desperate for picks to miss out on two top draft pick in favor of one. That's playing very bad odds.

If Haskins works out well OR Young becomes the next Mack OR Tua doesn't play brilliantly ... not drafting Tua was the right thing to do.

I'm sorry. Rivera may be a solid coach and great with kids, but I don't trust him to do something like that. There's only about two or three personnel guys in the world I'd trust to roll the dice like that, and he ain't one of them.

"Anything is possible" can be used to justify anything. That doesn't make a move a good one.

 

[Boone]

So if it's the right move it's the right move? Oddly, that wasn't the case when we drafted both Griffin and Cousins. I remember someone on this board voicing concerns about that at the time ... I forget who ...

But they both played well, which frankly is rather amazing, and it still didn't work out. Part of that was because by the time we realized Cousins was a solid player, his contract was up. Timing is important with these things. The draft is a good place to find talent because you can audition players for cheap. And you can't audition two Futures of the Franchise at the same time. We know this from very recent first-hand experience.

And that's not even taking into account that the Redskins would be all but guaranteeing to waste at least one first rounder. Either Haskins or Tua. Throw one of those picks out the window. Gone. Wasted.

This team is rebuilding and can't afford that. The Redskins need their first rounders to pan out, or at LEAST give them a solid chance to pan out. If it is truly a New Day in Washington, they won't pull a stunt like this. There are so many reasons not to.

Not like we have any choice, right? I'll hope for the best no matter what they do.

But if the Redskins do something that stupid, I'll be expecting the worst.

I don't think I've ever disagreed with a Henry post as much as I do this one. What the Redskins 'did' - with Griffin, Cousins, Sammy Baugh - whoever, is the most irrelevant thing one could point to. What does that have to do with a new head coach, and elevated FO guy, and the upcoming draft?

If Haskins isn't the guy, in Rivera and an elevated Kyle Smith's opinion (and was forced on a weak Jay Gruden by Snyder last draft) - they've already blown a first round pick. No amount of hoping, wishing, or 'lets stick with our guy-ism' is going to change that. He's either the right pick - or he's not. If he's not, the absolute worst thing Rivera and company could do is to compound that mistake by forging on with a guy they neither believe in, nor whom has the requisite talent to be a long-term starter.

I know it sounds like I'm advocating for them to pick Tua. I'm really not. Unless in Rivera and Smith's assessment, Haskins is far inferior to Tua.

You have to get the QB right. Have to. You can rebuild all you want but if your QB is a dud, you are sunk.

If Haskins was a Snyder pick who will never be an NFL star, immediately rectifying that would be the furthest thing from a stunt - ever. It would be salvation. The problem in all this is, we won't know, not for years whether whatever we do was the right move. That's the fun (and/or agony) in it I guess. But fortune favors the bold. If we made a mistake with Haskins in the eyes of the only guys we have made responsible for such assessments, I will support whatever they decide.

Best case scenario....just what most of us think... that this is posturing, that Haskins is a future star, and we use our picks this year to build more strength around him.

 

[Boone]

I get your point regarding whether Rivera is smart enough and savvy enough to make such a crucial decision. It's scary to think about. But he and Smith are what we have and guess we just have to hope they make the right decisions.

Better than Dan Snyder deciding who we should draft.... gotta believe that...

 

[Boone]

Who was that guy on ES who used to post the crazy theories constantly - Atlanta Skins Fan I believe?

I'm not trying to take his place. I just saw a lot of noise on Twitter tonight that lead me to believe that it's actually possible they are or have looked at this as a possibility. I'm trying to get my mind around that. It's also possible I knew it would get a reaction here and spark a little convo. I am not above a little click bait once in awhile...

 

[Win4us]

“...And you can't mourn missing out on Chase Young and trading down for a bevy of picks at the same time - can you? At least one of those options is off the table....”

Well taking Tua at a position of unneed negates both of those scenarios real quick like. As Henry said that even though DH was taken during Bruce’s term it still negates a 1st round pick. This would be giving up on a kid before he’s even received a chance. It’s bad form in my view and will not work out for the best no matter how it’s painted.

Out of your listed options for years down the road how about Tua remains injury prone and has a service record that makes J. Reed look like an Ironman. All the while Haskins is traded to a team that actually invests in talent around him while he averages 4K yards, 35 tds and a 70% completion average. He’s got twice the arm strength Tua has now so DH’s deep game thrives as well.

My preferred options are
A-trade down if possible and upgrade the roster, starting with tackles and a legit TE
B-Take Chase Young and give JDR a fast, hard hitting defense
To me this is the only 2 options that improve our team, anything else is peeing into the wind

 

[Win4us]

It would seem the Tua angle is more than smokescreen.

‘REDSKINS TOLD TUA TAGOVAILOA THEY AREN’T SOLD ON DWAYNE HASKINS‘

Report: Redskins told Tua Tagovailoa they aren't sold on Dwayne Haskins

The buzz surrounding Tua Tagovailoa and the Washington Redskins is reaching a fevered pitch, and it's looking more like Dwayne Haskins is seen as a mistake.

sportsnaut.com

 

[Boone]

'Position of unneed' - that's the crux of it right there .... because if they made that kind of radical move, it would be exactly due to need, critical need - in their assessment. But I get your point. It's currently perceived as a filled need by the vast majority of Redskins fans. But we also have a blindspot Win. I know - because I share it. We want desperately to believe Haskins is finally the guy to be a very good long-term QB. No one wants that more than I do but I also recognize it makes it nearly impossible for me to objectively assess him. Rivera doesn't have that barrier - and it's possible he views him differently, that's really all I'm saying. It's possible.

The alternative scenario you posed could absolutely be the way it goes. We won't know for years. But Rivera and Smith are getting paid big bucks to make the right prediction and follow the path that leads them to. I agree with you on Haskins arm vs. Tua's btw - but we also know that arm strength isn't the end all be all (just ask Jay Cutler and Jemarcus Russell). It's about who can make it happen on the field. I watched every OSU game Haskins played and I loved what I saw. I hope that ultimately translates to the NFL - but let's not pretend we know it will.

 

[Elephant]

Arm strength?


Pfft!

48 yard bullett in stride!




I'm sorry, but after watching that again, then remembering watching about 8 of their games in his sophomore year, and another few before his injury this past year, and there is no doubt in my mind that a HEALTHY Tua is a far better QB than Haskins.

 

[Win4us]

Another angle though extremely unlikely is that RR enlisted Haskins to sell this ruse in an attempt to drive up the 2nd pick value. Just maybe they’re both in on it and the ultimate goal of it is to trade out of the pick for Miami’s three 1’s. Very unlikely but ya never know.

The ONLY reason I could see this as a possible situation is how Turner and the new QB coach were both stating how excited they were to work with Haskins. I’ll be glad when the dust settles one way or another but in my gut I believe Haskins is our answer to the qb spot that’s eluded the team since forever.

 

[Henry]

I don't think I've ever disagreed with a Henry post as much as I do this one. What the Redskins 'did' - with Griffin, Cousins, Sammy Baugh - whoever, is the most irrelevant thing one could point to. What does that have to do with a new head coach, and elevated FO guy, and the upcoming draft?

It’s evidence that when you spend two draft picks on two quarterbacks, the best you can hope for is wasting one of those picks. And you might even waste both.

As has been pointed out many times before, the draft is a glorified crap shoot. Drafting one QB on top of the other screws up the odds. Its just bad policy, which is why the only team that has done it in the modern era is woeful Arizona.

If Haskins isn't the guy, in Rivera and an elevated Kyle Smith's opinion (and was forced on a weak Jay Gruden by Snyder last draft) - they've already blown a first round pick. No amount of hoping, wishing, or 'lets stick with our guy-ism' is going to change that. He's either the right pick - or he's not. If he's not, the absolute worst thing Rivera and company could do is to compound that mistake by forging on with a guy they neither believe in, nor whom has the requisite talent to be a long-term starter.

If Rivera and Smith have determined Haskins isnt the guy after a handful of starts during the worst season in the history of the Washington Redskins offense in which the coach was fired five games into the season, I have very little faith in their willingness and ability to thoroughly evaluate talent. Jettisoning a player based on last season like that would be reckless and arrogant, and would not instill me with confidence in Rivera’s decision-making going forward.

And at that point, all I’d have left would be the hope that Rivera succeeds despite himself because “anything’s possible.”

Not exactly a place I’d want to be.

 

[Boone]

Win - I actually think it's more likely this is a ruse that Haskins himself is in on, than it is that they're going to draft a QB in the first round 2 years in a row. It just seems more like a legitimate possibility tonight than it had previously. Hence the thread.

Henry - you definitely could waste both. This is the Redskins we're talking about. I think you're premature calling Arizona woeful - well, I guess what I mean is that Kyler Murray may be the decision that makes them NOT woeful in the future. Pretty sure Josh Rosen wasn't going to guarantee that. And I'm not saying Haskins is Josh Rosen, just that a decision to acknowledge a mistake is a positive thing, if in fact it turns out a decision was a mistake.

As far as how they've 'assessed' Haskins - I would assume they look at a lot more than a handful of NFL starts. And if they jettison Haskins, doesn't the wisdom of that decision rest entirely on whether or not they turn out to have been right or horribly wrong about him? For me - that's the only factor that would be a basis for judging the decision. It could be an incredibly gutsy and correct course correction, or a disaster. I wouldn't even hazard a guess as to which would prove to be true if it happened.

I'm just putting this out here because it's a hot topic right now and because, let's face it, if it were to actually transpire, better we get our minds around it now