This team can't even lose right

[Goaldeje]

Boone, if this team somehow wins 7 or 8 games (which would mean either a 4-2 or 5-1 finish) do you think we will be 'in the same predicament' as previous 7- or 8-win Redskin teams?

I would say that, considering the way this team is being built, the lower we draft the better the team actually is, and the more likely it is we could afford to trade up to get a QB and still be able to field a competitive team going forward.

Henry, that almost sounds like you're espousing a "win-now" approach in the offseason.

 

[Henry]

Henry, that almost sounds like you're espousing a "win-now" approach in the offseason.

I know, right?

I do have a few caveats ... first of all, this teams still sucks. We aren't going to win more than 6 games. If we do it's because we are wildly exceeding expectations and are ahead of the curve in rebuilding. It means we hit on more picks than we should have over the past two years. It would not mean what 8-8 in previous Redskin years meant: That all the high-priced, high-profile paycheck collectors failed to get us over the top yet again because the team played soft and lacked any sort of chemistry, focus or identity.

A strong finish with these young guys like Helu, Hurt, Riley, Williams, Paulsen and Davis ... That would not be anything like going 2-6 down the stretch in '08.

And given that, it is, in my opinion, perfectly reasonable to trade picks for a QB to grow with them. I am not as against trading young for young as I am young for old. I like picks but I'll make an exception for a young franchise QB, especially on a rebuilding team like ours.

Ultimately I don't think we'll need to make that trade. I don't see us beating anyone else but the Vikings. But if we did, I wouldn't be too upset about it, because it would likely mean the rebuild is actually panning out. And that's a very good thing.

 

[Boone]

Boone, who are your top 3 QBs?

No out-of-the-box ratings from me - I think Luck is head and shoulders above everyone else. Barkley makes me nervous - he's 'NFL ready' having played in a pro-style offense (sometimes that means a guy who won't have a huge upside, plus he's not a huge guy) and probably deserves the #2 rating. But I have Tannehill being right behind him with a more physical presence and a lot more upside. I really like him.

I've not as impressed by Landry Jones as others are, and I haven't seen enough of RGIII to have an opinion.

 

[Boone]

Boone, if this team somehow wins 7 or 8 games (which would mean either a 4-2 or 5-1 finish) do you think we will be 'in the same predicament' as previous 7- or 8-win Redskin teams?

I would say that, considering the way this team is being built, the lower we draft the better the team actually is, and the more likely it is we could afford to trade up to get a QB and still be able to field a competitive team going forward.

Unlike pretty much every previous year since the dawn of the new millenium, we've got nine picks going into this upcoming draft. If we want to move up we can afford it.

No - and that's a fair point. We added solid talent last draft, and appear to be progressing even if our record doesn't reflect it. So I'd agree we're in beter shape than our record indicates, particularly on defense. I guess what I'm saying is, not only could I 'live with' trading up to get one of the top 3 QB prospects, I think we'll have to and should do what it takes.

I'm not sure we'll have the opportunities you all think we will to 'trade up'. With the new rookie salary scales, there's not financial incentive for teams to move down anymore. And there are more than a couple teams who are desperate for a QB. If we win 7 games, we'd have to throw some first rounders at someone to get even one of the top 5 QBs in my opinion.

We'll be lucky to win 6 at best (the Vikings and Eagles being our only legitimate shots to do so), so we won't get a chance to find out if I'm right.

My question to you is - if we literally in a position where we don't foresee getting Luck, Barkley, Jones, Tanehill, or even RGIII - what would you like the Skins to do. Stay where they are and get the 'next best available', or throw picks at a team to move up?

 

[Neophyte]

Griffin may not even be an option. He has another year of eligibility, is already working on a Masters degree and is reportedly thinking about returning to Baylor next year, forgoing the draft a la Andrew Luck last year.

Having said that, he is my current pick if at all possible for the Skins. My in-laws live just 45 minutes outside of Waco so they get the local news there and they are really impressed with this kid. Smart, high character guy by all accounts who works hard.

 

[Henry]

Boone, I don't follow college football at all, but if the QB class is as deep and uniquely awesome as everyone says I'd throw picks at a team to move up.

 

[Cycleans]

There is certainly alot of scenarios to ponder. I think the Skins are in a pretty good spot draft wise to at the very least get one of the top 4 qbs available. Most here on this forum appear to have a pretty tough time picking a clear winner in the 2nd to 4th qb available.
I think we can all agree there is no such thing as a sure fire can't miss qb. That being said I think we can all agree that the Colts will win the "suck for luck" sweepstakes. So that leaves number 2-5 qbs drafted most likely to be signed here.
To really throw a monkey wrench into the likely scenario... There is Peyton Manning with a huge ? on his short/ longterm health and a huge contract. Will the Colts trade Manning?
I know all of us have probably heard the faint rumblings (that are most likely unfounded) that the Skins may have some interest... Hey I'm not suggesting that I want them looking at a Manning trade when we are in such a solid position in the draft. Supposedly this is one of the better years to draft a qb. There are however some highly unlikely scenarios where I could see it.
The Manning scenario will more than likely alter the draft quite significantly ecspecially if he is healthy. All of the concern about where we end up in the draft is certainly significant but so is finding some players on this roster that can fill some holes next season. So each game I'm pulling for a win but won't be disappointed if we lose as long as some of the younger players on the roster get some quality playing time. There are quite a few young players that have shown up in the last few games and a few that haven't.

 

[Ax]

There are so many things that can happen between now and April, it's practically worthless to try an accurately assess who's gonna do what, and where. Priorities can change, which then change strategies, etc...

All I care about this week, is beating the Jets.

 

[Skinsfan76]

There are so many things that can happen between now and April, it's practically worthless to try an accurately assess who's gonna do what, and where. Priorities can change, which then change strategies, etc...

All I care about this week, is beating the Jets.

Nicely put. I agree completely.
Posted via BGO Mobile Device

 

[fansince62]

I'm with Sarge and Boone on this one. The higher we draft...the more options we have on who to select from the QB pool. player development isn't why we won yesterday IMO....we won mostly because KS ran a gameplan Seattle was too stupid to adjust to.

This team's offense sucks..and will continue to suck....so long as the o-line is average, the o-line depth is sub-average...and the QBs work over-time every game to maximize the other team's chances of winning. i don't care what the stats are...higher position = more options vis who is available.

we all know this - if Shanallen don't find a real starting QB in the off-season...there will be a revolt among the fans. Beck should be let go now. Too bad we can't trade Rex to Houston for even a 4th rndr. just as Sarge states: what dang difference does it make if we end up 4-12 or 5-11?

 

[Henry]

Al, we just put 420 yards up on the #11 defense in the league. Helu ran for 108 yards and a TD against the #8 run defense. These are not meaningless stats.

Also, it may not be a coincidence that our top two offensive outputs of the entire season were the past two weeks. It's quite possible the young guys thrown into this offense earlier in the season are finally getting the hang of it.

I agree the team sucks and I expect us to lose out, or maybe win one more. But if we don't it could very well mean the team does not suck as much as we thought. And that's not a bad thing.

 

[GSF]

If this front office knows what it's doing, drafting low won't matter.

If this front office doesn't know what it's doing, drafting high won't matter.

Either way, we may as well win the games in front of us. Worry about the offseason in the offseason.

This is exactly how I feel about it. I will add that I think the more games they win this year, the better they will be next year.

Rex, Davis, Moss, and Helu had it rolling yesterday. They moved the ball against a good defense in a hostile environment. I actually think this team is a little better than people think, but they have been killing themselves with things like blocked kicks, dumb penalties, and boneheaded interceptions.

I would much rather see the team play better and win a few games then completely suck and lose out. I think Shanny and Allen will find a way to draft their QB next april whether their first pick is top 5 or top 15. After that I hope and expect a serious dedication to improving the oline. I'm talking about drafting at least 2 hogs and bringing in a FA stud as well. If you plan on playing a rookie QB at some point, you better have a decent line in front of him otherwise you're likely to wind up with another Ramsey situation.

If this team drafts a good QB, and adds some quality hogs, then they have a good chance of being competitive next year, even if Rex has to play unil the rookie is ready.

 

[servumtuum]

Al, we just put 420 yards up on the #11 defense in the league. Helu ran for 108 yards and a TD against the #8 run defense. These are not meaningless stats.

Also, it may not be a coincidence that our top two offensive outputs of the entire season were the past two weeks. It's quite possible the young guys thrown into this offense earlier in the season are finally getting the hang of it.

I agree the team sucks and I expect us to lose out, or maybe win one more. But if we don't it could very well mean the team does not suck as much as we thought. And that's not a bad thing.

O.K., Henry you made a couple of points here that I have been thinking about.

The Dallas game in the second half and yesterday showed a level of play that quite frankly surprised me but in the light of this post are possible reasons why we could look at any of the top five QBs in the draft as viable options.

Look at the Panthers-they grabbed probably the best QB of last season's draft and are still-even with an elite Pro-bowl WR-sitting at 3-8 because of the lack of competent play in so many other areas of the team. Imagine, if you will, Cam Newton. or Andy Dalton if you want, or something even similar to them coupled with what we've seen in the last two games from the young guys on this team; I think it's likely we'd be sitting at 6-5 or 7-4 rather than 4-7 with a good QB prospect which we still are in a good position to draft even if we were to win a couple more games. I don't think these "top-tier" QBs are all going to be bunched in the top fifteen 1st round picks but most likely scattered throughout the 1st round with at least one dropping into the second round-that's how these things have tended to pan out in past drafts no matter how much hype any individual QB has gotten. My point is that the idea of winning two or three more games isn't likely to have a make-or-break effect on the Redskins ability to grab a QB that could work out and, as has been said numerous times, this year's crop is unusually strong.

I'm not all that comfortable with giving up a bunch of picks to move up into the top five to grab a QB because of glaring needs in other areas, especially OL, that we need to fill.

Oh, by the way, yesterday's win felt good because it was a win-in spite of what it might have done to our relative draft position. Personally, I need one of those once in a while just to relieve the constant "blahs" from multiple consecutive losses.

 

[Fear The Spear]

It turns my stomach, to see Redskin fans rooting for the team to lose, no matter the reason or circumstance.
I simply cannot fathom that, and those that do it, need to check the Rules & Principles on the back of their Fan Card. It's wrong on so many levels.
BTW, it's much worse on "the other site" than it is here. I couldn't even bear to read their comments for more than 30 seconds, before I had to get outta there.

 

[Rymanofthenorth]

I have openly espoused losing to win since last seasons debacle. the fact is that Boone is right that having better draft picks gives us options, henry is also right with what one would think is a captain obvious assertion (but isnt) that we still need to make the correct picks.

Truth is this team has undergone massive turnover and we need a couple years of actual building, we need a new Oline, we still need Dline, we need Inside linebackers, we need Dbs, we need receivers, we need depth and most of all we need a QB,

I think that normally I would be on board with trading several picks to get a superlative QB but if we dont have an Oline or enough receivers, then we risk too much. we need too many other things to get all trade crazy yet, we arent in the position of a team that has talent across the board and just needs that franchise QB.

 

[Henry]

Ryman, generally I agree with you. I would like to point out that as of right now we have eight picks in 2012, 2013 and 2014. We have a lot more maneuverability than we've had in previous years.

Last year we turned six picks into 12. While I haven't been thrilled with this front office's ability to evaluate QBs over the past two years, I am impressed with the way they've been able to maximize our picks since the McNabb disaster. I think even if we trade a first and second over the next few years (for example) we might still ably fill out the roster with the picks we had left.

It all goes back to what I said earlier. If this front office knows how to work the draft, our starting draft position this year won't matter.

 

[Neophyte]

I'm not saying we can't improve at nearly all the positions on the offensive side of the ball as well as several positions on the defensive side but I think the last two weeks have proven that with the right QB, this team is a threat right now. Perhaps not a SB threat but certainly a threat to win the division and even win a playoff game or two. From there, we can build through picks in the lower third of a round in the draft. Note that teams like the Steelers and Packers have done pretty well putting together contenders off picks in the lower third once they had the QB position taken care of.

 

[fansince62]

Al, we just put 420 yards up on the #11 defense in the league. Helu ran for 108 yards and a TD against the #8 run defense. These are not meaningless stats.

Also, it may not be a coincidence that our top two offensive outputs of the entire season were the past two weeks. It's quite possible the young guys thrown into this offense earlier in the season are finally getting the hang of it.

I agree the team sucks and I expect us to lose out, or maybe win one more. But if we don't it could very well mean the team does not suck as much as we thought. And that's not a bad thing.

henry...I'm not here to rob anyone of the pleasure they derived from the game. and I can fully concede that the team is better than what we saw during the Zorn years. not disputing that we have found some young players who may be worth keeping over the long haul - we all want that since we all accept we are in a rebuild.

as far as the offense goes, however, we did well because Seattle didn't adjust to the play action game very well. which is surprising because we basically have no deep passing game. we all know when Rex launches one there's a 50/50 chance it's coming back the other way. the offensive line still looks questionable to me. it's not a dominating line and that's what you need if you want to feature the run. I saw some nice cuts by Helu...and I also saw more than a few runs that went for nothing because the blocking just wasn't there. pass blocking was so so.

so..yea...there's been progress...though it's hard to see since the cast of characters keeps changing. After 18 years...I'm onboard with the "whatever it takes" crowd to secure our franchise QB. if that means tanking the season...well....I'll be a bad fan and not so secretly wish for that! (ouch!...Ax pls remove the needle from the Fansince voodoo doll!) it's not as though we watched a disciplined team with dominating talent this weekend. mike is right about Moss.....a vet. we need some real talent to step up....AND A REAL QB!

btw....does one shy away in veiled embarrassment or simply smile when Rex makes rookie mistakes like he did this past weekend?

 

[Boone]

It turns my stomach, to see Redskin fans rooting for the team to lose, no matter the reason or circumstance.
I simply cannot fathom that, and those that do it, need to check the Rules & Principles on the back of their Fan Card. It's wrong on so many levels.
BTW, it's much worse on "the other site" than it is here. I couldn't even bear to read their comments for more than 30 seconds, before I had to get outta there.

I may be wrong, but I haven't seen anyone actively rooting for it (not sure about Sarge) - I think it's more a recognition that if we don't win, it may actually be better for the long-term prospects of the team.

Thing is - even if fans DID root for the team to lose, they're likely supporting that sacrifice because they believe it could help result in years of winning. I think one could actually make the argument a willingness to embrace pain in order to eventually not have to experience it supports someone being a fan, not the reverse.

Besides - anyone who obsessively hangs out on an internet messageboard focused on a single NFL team - trust me, they're a fan. I'm not sure anyone has a corner on how fans should act, think, or behave to be honest. To each his own.

 

[fansince62]

I may be wrong, but I haven't seen anyone actively rooting for it (not sure about Sarge) - I think it's more a recognition that if we don't win, it may actually be better for the long-term prospects of the team.

exactamundo.

it's a weird mindset. I still watched the game. I enjoy it when I see signs of disciplined football...crisp execution....athletic play. I want the game to be competitive and close. but I want that franchise QB even more: somehow....sitting through a 6 or 8 victory season next year with Rex at the helm but a better cast around him is just unacceptable to me. I just can't see playing football with one arm tied behind the back - and this effectively is our current QB situation.