The Defense!

[Win4us]

Apke benched

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[MikefromOH]

I'm happy to see Apke isn't starting, but why was he benched? Is this a disciplinary thing?

 

[Boone]

Rivera has made some questionable calls on personnel.

I understand he inherited a number of players but some of these guys looked to be washouts already and yet we went back to the well thinking we could work magic to reclaim them.

I would have made more personnel changes in Year 1.

A couple of the moves with Trent and Dunbar were over issues that didn’t have to do with performance.

We really needed to address two areas that have been pot holes on this team for years - TE and S.

Yes we went after Amari Cooper at WR but there is some talent at that position already here.

But Logan Thomas? Going with Apke at S?

These were moves that looked to be underwhelming from the start because these players didn’t seem to have the upside to warrant the time.

Apke like Haskins is another 1 year college starter and a player with poor instincts and fundamentals.

Thomas is already 29 years old. Rivera mentioned how little time he has had at the position after moving over from QB and was interesting as a player.

But is the plan to develop him so he is a finished product at what 32? 🤗

We need better prospects and better free agents with at least some reasonable chance of success.

We're 5 games into his first season. You have to fill a roster and unless you want to trade a bunch of future draft picks, upgrades aren't as 'available' as we make it sound. Who wants to come to a team full of dysfunction at the top that won 3 games in 2019? No one. That's who. There are no quick fixes at our positions of need. It is going to take multiple drafts and free agency periods.

 

[Bulldog]

Apke was rated by some NFL teams as a #6 -7 pick or even an undrafted free agent.

I remember because I didn’t recognize the name and then when I went online and saw how little game experience he had at safety in college that late round to UDFA grade seemed appropriate.

If Apke ran a 4.5 instead of a 4.3 the Redskins wouldn’t have taken him.

Falling in love with measurables is a dangerous habit in the NFL.

 

[Bulldog]

Look we have had Everett here for years and he is a special teamer, nothing more.Kurl is a developmental late pick.

The team didn’t have to go out and sign Earl Thomas but we needed somebody with NFL experience to start while younger guys get brought along.

Apke wouldn’t be starting on any of the other 31teams. That’s just where he is right now i his development.

Apke is the modern day equivalent of Reed Doughty. He tried hard but just never seemed to develop any consistency but was kept around for years.

 

[Primus Porcus]

 

[Primus Porcus]

 

[Primus Porcus]

 

[Primus Porcus]

 

[China]

This is a DE running down an RB from behind in the open field.... and it's not Chase Young.

So we're reduced to cheering for speed rather than good defense? I'd prefer that someone from the defensive line had tackled the running back at the LOS rather than 45 yard downfield. As much as everybody keeps saying the defensive line is good and is the strength of the team, I'm not impressed. They're ranked 26th in the league in rushing yards allowed. Weak.

 

[Primus Porcus]

So we're reduced to cheering for speed rather than good defense? I'd prefer that someone from the defensive line had tackled the running back at the LOS rather than 45 yard downfield. As much as everybody keeps saying the defensive line is good and is the strength of the team, I'm not impressed. They're ranked 26th in the league in rushing yards allowed. Weak.

I'm not reduced to doing anything. I never said it was a well executed play, but can appreciate Sweat (who executed his responsibility perfectly on this play, and was lined up on DE opposite the side the play went to) staying with it and running down one of the best rookie RBs in this class.

I also don't completely buy into that 26th ranked run defense when you've played Kyler Murray and Lamar Jackson, in addition to Collins having a blown assignment and giving up a 40+ yard run to Daniel Jones.

Murray - 63 yards rushing
Jackson - 53 yards rushing
Jones - 74 yards rushing

That's 190 yards by 3 QBs. The D-line has their responsibilities in that, but I can't really hold it as much against them as I do against the LBs, S, and DC. Knock that 190 off and we go from 780 rush yards allowed to 590 putting us at 11th overall... 98.33 YPG would put us 6th.

That 26 overall also doesn't take into account we have not had a bye week, while 10 teams have had a bye.

 

[Boone]

I agree that it's not the DL who is primarily responsible for being 26th against the run. In addition to the nature of some of our opponents, our LBs and Safeties are two of the weakest groups on this team.

 

[China]

I'm not reduced to doing anything. I never said it was a well executed play, but can appreciate Sweat (who executed his responsibility perfectly on this play, and was lined up on DE opposite the side the play went to) staying with it and running down one of the best rookie RBs in this class.

I also don't completely buy into that 26th ranked run defense when you've played Kyler Murray and Lamar Jackson, in addition to Collins having a blown assignment and giving up a 40+ yard run to Daniel Jones.

Murray - 63 yards rushing
Jackson - 53 yards rushing
Jones - 74 yards rushing

That's 190 yards by 3 QBs. The D-line has their responsibilities in that, but I can't really hold it as much against them as I do against the LBs, S, and DC. Knock that 190 off and we go from 780 rush yards allowed to 590 putting us at 11th overall... 98.33 YPG would put us 6th.

That 26 overall also doesn't take into account we have not had a bye week, while 10 teams have had a bye.

If you're going to remove QB rushing yards to re-rank the defense you should do it for all teams, as I'm sure other teams would improve as well, and we wouldn't end up as high as 11th.

 

[Boone]

One can argue we’ve faced the two best rushing QBs in the league already. That’s a valid point.

 

[Primus Porcus]

If you're going to remove QB rushing yards to re-rank the defense you should do it for all teams, as I'm sure other teams would improve as well, and we wouldn't end up as high as 11th.

then if you're going to argue that we have the 26th ranked rush defense, you have to understand we havent had a bye while other teams have... and if you're going to discount my argument, we need to acknowledge that Jackson and Murray still have 10 more teams to play so those stats should be assumed as well.

Kyler Murray is averaging 60+ yards a game and the Seahawks have given up some decent games to QBs that can move a little bit... see Fitzpatrick and Dak. Seattle is ranked 5th in total yards, and top 10 in Average. I bet they dont stay there after this weekend.

And my point wasn't to challenge defense vs defense. It was to speak to your point that we're 26th in rush defense so the defensive line has been 'weak.' The defensive line is not the primary force in stopping a running QB because they have to maintain other assignments... To hold it against Payne because Murray breaks the pocket for a first down is unfair. Daniel Jones' big run this past weekend was not the fault of the O-line at all. They did exactly what they're supposed to do.



I've circled Landon Collins (#26). His assignment here is to shed the block and maintain the back side in the event that the QB pulls the ball. Smith-Williams (#96) is the RDE in this case and his job is the RB. It's a basic option look. Every QB in the world knows in an option situation like this that if the FREE RELEASE defender (major component of this play and why this is on Collins) crashes down on the RB, you pull the ball and run through the vacated hole to the left. We've seen a couple of our QBs do this.

Smith-Williams does his job.. Yellow arrow shows free release to RB. Collins, again circled in red has engaged the blocking WR and is about to shed him.

Smith-Williams hits the RB as Jones pulls the ball. Collins crashes down for some odd reason considering how well Smith-Wiliams engaged the RB. This opens up the back side WR to engage the CB (I believe it's Fuller) and a clear lane for Jones to break free.

Smith-Williams completes the tackle as he should, Collins is now behind the play, all the WR has to do at this point is just prevent Fuller from getting inside and it's a huge gain... 49 yards to be exact.

Not all the punishment of the 26th ranked run defense can go on the line... in fact, the line has been doing it's job.

 

[Primus Porcus]

Collins claims miscommunication. I don't see it.... but I don't know. To my eyes this was Collins crashing down on the RB and losing contain. It would not make sense for anyone else on that side of the field to have that assignment....

 

[SirClintonPortis]

Collins claims miscommunication. I don't see it.... but I don't know. To my eyes this was Collins crashing down on the RB and losing contain. It would not make sense for anyone else on that side of the field to have that assignment....

Collins apparently never even casually watch Jones play. The man is scrambling a lot and doesn't look slow at all. If he thought Jones was a non-threat running....I have to shake my head.

 

[Primus Porcus]

Collins apparently never even casually watch Jones play. The man is scrambling a lot and doesn't look slow at all. If he thought Jones was a non-threat running....I have to shake my head.

Agreed

 

[China]

Andy Dalton doesn't seem like much of a threat to run. Let's see how well this defense does against the Cowboys

then if you're going to argue that we have the 26th ranked rush defense, you have to understand we havent had a bye while other teams have... and if you're going to discount my argument, we need to acknowledge that Jackson and Murray still have 10 more teams to play so those stats should be assumed as well.

Kyler Murray is averaging 60+ yards a game and the Seahawks have given up some decent games to QBs that can move a little bit... see Fitzpatrick and Dak. Seattle is ranked 5th in total yards, and top 10 in Average. I bet they dont stay there after this weekend.

And my point wasn't to challenge defense vs defense. It was to speak to your point that we're 26th in rush defense so the defensive line has been 'weak.' The defensive line is not the primary force in stopping a running QB because they have to maintain other assignments... To hold it against Payne because Murray breaks the pocket for a first down is unfair. Daniel Jones' big run this past weekend was not the fault of the O-line at all. They did exactly what they're supposed to do.


Not all the punishment of the 26th ranked run defense can go on the line... in fact, the line has been doing it's job.

To your point about the bye, if you look at rush yds/game then the number of games is irrelevant, and Washington is still down at 24.

The team should steadily climb the rankings now that they're past all those premier running QBs. We'll see. I don't expect Andy Dalton to run much, so the Cowboys game should be a good indicator.

 

[Primus Porcus]

Andy Dalton doesn't seem like much of a threat to run. Let's see how well this defense does against the Cowboys


To your point about the bye, if you look at rush yds/game then the number of games is irrelevant, and Washington is still down at 24.

The team should steadily climb the rankings now that they're past all those premier running QBs. We'll see. I don't expect Andy Dalton to run much, so the Cowboys game should be a good indicator.

Fair point, but it still comes back to playing the 2 best running qbs in the NFL. I agree, well I hope, we start to climb the rankings