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Neophyte

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In every corporation I have worked for the last 20 years sexual harassment kicks in after the person the actions are directed at indicates clearly that the actions are not wanted. This allows folks who work together and might be attracted to each other to act on those interests without fear until a clear message has been sent one way or the other. This covers simple things like "hey, want to get a drink with me after work?" or "how about dinner on Friday?"

In each company there has been a clear line though where that initial contact moves from appropriate to inappropriate. "hey, how about dinner?" offered up in the break room while getting a coke is fine. Writing "hey, how about a drink after work?" across a pic of your junk and texting it to someone is inappropriate and no one should have to tell someone to stop it before it is considered sexual harassment.

Also, there has always been a clear policy regarding this kind of thing when the initiating party is in a position of power over the receiving party. The short version is don't. Just don't. Same goes for executives and anyone else in the company.
 

MikefromOH

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Even when Cooley dated the cheerleader she had to quit. The lines are known.
 

Boone

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In every corporation I have worked for the last 20 years sexual harassment kicks in after the person the actions are directed at indicates clearly that the actions are not wanted. This allows folks who work together and might be attracted to each other to act on those interests without fear until a clear message has been sent one way or the other. This covers simple things like "hey, want to get a drink with me after work?" or "how about dinner on Friday?"

In each company there has been a clear line though where that initial contact moves from appropriate to inappropriate. "hey, how about dinner?" offered up in the break room while getting a coke is fine. Writing "hey, how about a drink after work?" across a pic of your junk and texting it to someone is inappropriate and no one should have to tell someone to stop it before it is considered sexual harassment.

Also, there has always been a clear policy regarding this kind of thing when the initiating party is in a position of power over the receiving party. The short version is don't. Just don't. Same goes for executives and anyone else in the company.
Most companies also have policies that forbid anyone in a relationship to be in a reporting relationship. For example, if I were dating someone on a unit I supervise (or vice versa), we would have to disclose this and one of us would have to move to a different job/leader. The problem isn't wanting to date someone, it's when someone communicates they are not interested, and you know they are not interested, yet continue to pursue. That's a problem outside of work for that matter.

I believe it's rare that the 'harasser' doesn't know he/she is harassing. They know it - they just don't care how it's being received. That's the essence of it.
 

SilentThreat

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Most companies also have policies that forbid anyone in a relationship to be in a reporting relationship. For example, if I were dating someone on a unit I supervise (or vice versa), we would have to disclose this and one of us would have to move to a different job/leader. The problem isn't wanting to date someone, it's when someone communicates they are not interested, and you know they are not interested, yet continue to pursue. That's a problem outside of work for that matter.

I believe it's rare that the 'harasser' doesn't know he/she is harassing. They know it - they just don't care how it's being received. That's the essence of it.

I actually think it's more commonplace than you think... I think a lot of people in positions of power that partake in harassment are self absorbed enough to not let it in their own mind that the feelings are not mutual. Santos likely didn't look at it like these ladies felt uncomfortable because they likely were afraid of what would happen to them if they adamantly declined, so they tried to do it as delicately as possible. Santos with his arrogance and ego probably convinced himself that they were 'just playing hard to get' instead of giving them a polite no.

Young women get put in the impossible position of balancing how to say no to executives while likely having a level of fear of keeping their job, or facing some other type of punishment.
 

Boone

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I understand what you're getting at, but my response is...nah.

He knew he was married.
He knew the women worked for or had a relationship with the team and that approaching employees for sex as a married boss was inappropriate.
He knew he held a position of power and that there was an 'implied threat' there if they did not respond favorably.
He knew that he shouldn't be doing it - in fact he repeatedly tried to ensure that they wouldn't report him with 'you know I'm kidding' or 'don't get mad', etc..
He ****ing knew.

Are there idiots out there that 'don't realize'? Maybe. But even there, they should realize. If they don't, they probably exist in one of those cultures like at Redskins Park where the single HR person has neither the wisdom nor the clout to educate, enforce, and monitor for sexual harrasment potential.
 

SilentThreat

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I understand what you're getting at, but my response is...nah.

He knew he was married.
He knew the women worked for or had a relationship with the team and that approaching employees for sex as a married boss was inappropriate.
He knew he held a position of power and that there was an 'implied threat' there if they did not respond favorably.
He knew that he shouldn't be doing it - in fact he repeatedly tried to ensure that they wouldn't report him with 'you know I'm kidding' or 'don't get mad', etc..
He ****ing knew.

Are there idiots out there that 'don't realize'? Maybe. But even there, they should realize. If they don't, they probably exist in one of those cultures like at Redskins Park where the single HR person has neither the wisdom nor the clout to educate, enforce, and monitor for sexual harrasment potential.

Youre probably 100% correct. Using him as an example was out of convenience.
 

Rymanofthenorth

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In every corporation I have worked for the last 20 years sexual harassment kicks in after the person the actions are directed at indicates clearly that the actions are not wanted. This allows folks who work together and might be attracted to each other to act on those interests without fear until a clear message has been sent one way or the other. This covers simple things like "hey, want to get a drink with me after work?" or "how about dinner on Friday?"

In each company there has been a clear line though where that initial contact moves from appropriate to inappropriate. "hey, how about dinner?" offered up in the break room while getting a coke is fine. Writing "hey, how about a drink after work?" across a pic of your junk and texting it to someone is inappropriate and no one should have to tell someone to stop it before it is considered sexual harassment.

Also, there has always been a clear policy regarding this kind of thing when the initiating party is in a position of power over the receiving party. The short version is don't. Just don't. Same goes for executives and anyone else in the company.
common sense, the old saying was dont shit where you eat. its a hard lesson to learn sometimes. I know it was for me.

I have never seen a work relationship that got physical turn out well. in the old days lots of people met at work, now you better be careful or you could lose your job.
when I was at the phone company, I had a massive crush on a cowworker, we would flirt a lot. another coworker saw that and flirted with her as well, but she shut him down, I dated her for a while but the other guy ended up getting promoted, and made her miserable, never quite enough to call it harassment though. He also tried to burn me, we had words and it ended pretty quickly but I learned a valuable lesson about dating at work. never did again.

Mike asked me a question, and obviously its a loaded one, but its rather simple really, given details you can make real determinations, as in the santos situation, if you didnt know he was married, asking a woman if she is romantically interested, seems rather benign, when you find out the woman in question was a lesbian, its suddenly much less so. if she was in a direct reporting relationship even more so. all details that were not shared in the original release btw

but already the furor has died down, twitter and youtube are silent about it. Looks like snyder skates again.
 

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If the NFL was composed of 70% women players Snyder would not have survived.

Plain and simple the rank and file don’t care about this issue.

They evidently don’t care about the Holocaust either.

If NFL players had sounded off on this at anywhere near the fever pitch of BLM, both Snyder and DeSean Jackson would be out.
 

Boone

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I just tweeted at the NFL and Goodell regarding this. Snyder needs to go. This is outrageous behavior if even half of it is accurate. Fans of this franchise need to demand Snyder be removed.
 

SilentThreat

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I just tweeted at the NFL and Goodell regarding this. Snyder needs to go. This is outrageous behavior if even half of it is accurate. Fans of this franchise need to demand Snyder be removed.

I don't think it's over either. The minority owners are likely behind all of this and will continue to beat this drum until he's out, or they're out.
 

MikefromOH

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he seriously does need to go. that is absolutely disgusting.

I always thought that this was a big enough alarm to call for an investigation, but it never was:

You'll recall that two years ago, Ben Roethlisberger said that the Redskins made their cheerleaders stretch in the visiting team's tunnel as a distraction, and that the commissioner banned "the practice some dubbed the Redskins Rule." Quite a body of work they're amassing.Aug 26, 2010
asking cheerleaders to bend over, stretch, and try to distract players in the tunnel is a REEEEEEEEEEEEALLY sketchy thing. you cant justify that
 

Boone

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Passing around videos of cheerleaders exposed without their consent? People need to be going to jail.
Not to mention, trying to whore out your female employees at a work function to friends. Snyder needs to be gone. At some point there just isn’t any other reasonable alternative.
 

MikefromOH

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Not to mention, trying to whore out your female employees at a work function to friends. Snyder needs to be gone. At some point there just isn’t any other reasonable alternative.
You gotta think this is a big reason why he has been MIA the entire offseason.
 

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