Taylor Heinicke Discussion

[burgold]

Unless Howell is the guy. Doesn’t look like we will find out this season, but he looked the best in the preseason

 

[Boone]

I have a feeling we could really be something with Howell in there. Just a feeling. Folks will say 'you want to trust a rookie?' and my reply would be 'we turned it over to a guy off the street 2 seasons ago'. I just have a feeling he can and would be making a lot of the plays Heinicke isn't making. What are we afraid of - that's he's going to throw awful interceptions and not be able to complete passes?

Barring major injury not going to give him an opportunity apparently.

 

[DixieFlatline]

I thought the Sam Howell pick was amazing in the 5th round. I am a UNC fan so I might have a bias, but you have pre-season Heisman candidate that falls to the 5th round without an injury concern. I'm not sure how that happened, but giving out hope he can be in our future plans.

That said, I don't think they go to Howell barring injury while we are in the playoff hunt.

 

[Boone]

Agreed. I'm just not sure it would be the disaster the Heinicke hive thinks it would be.

 

[SilentThreat]

Gotta make this throw

 

[Kel Varnsen]

I watched the video of all of Taylor’s throws and it didn’t really change my opinion from after the game. He started really well on the first drive. Throwing with anticipation, finding the open man. He looked good coming out of the gate. The TD to Robinson was an underrated great throw. Hit him in stride so he could keep building momentum and eventually steam roll the DB for the score. But after that, just a lot of bad throws with a small number of good ones.

The missed TD to Bates, he was wide open, but the throw was late and didn’t have enough steam on it. So Bates was out by the time the ball got there. Then the next play he rolled out and missed Terry for an easy TD. (See clip above)

He then threw that awful, awful, INT before the half. With the next series, he threw what was almost another INT. The DB clearly dropped it, but the ball took forever to get out there and Terry had to reach back to try and catch it. You could tell from this point, the coaches dialed back the passes (20 runs to 7 passes). Most of the short variety except the TD which was a great throw.

The few passes the rest of the game were short passes to kill clock. Good job by him to take what was there in those spots.

Like Boone said earlier, he has to play better. He still makes these head scratching decisions and misses throws he should make. I know a lot of us have talked about using his athleticism and getting him out on the edge, but he’s very inaccurate throwing on the run. This stretch of games they have found ways to win with rushing and defense. Heinicke has made some good plays along the way. But his teammates on both sides of the ball have bailed him out a lot. I worry they are getting too comfortable without realizing how these games could have turned on some of the bad plays. Now is the time to improve and fix it. Two big games coming up against the Giants. They need better QB play down the stretch.

 

[Bulldog]

Let’s be honest. Yes, after the first drive when the passing game looked efficient it was a very mixed bag and quarterback is perhaps the weakest position group on the team.

But Wentz is the other side of the coin from Heinicke. He is no panacea. He lost the Titans game with one of the worst decisions made by a qb here this season.

Earlier against Detroit, one of the worst defenses in the NFL we were down 0-22 after 30 minutes. And that was Wentz playing with a mostly healthy group of offensive players.

Even in the opener we saw 4 touchdowns but also 2 interceptions and a play where we recovered our own fumble.

So, all this is to say overall we don’t know whether this team would be 7-5 with Wentz.

The fact a guy making $28M is a pick ‘em selection over Taylor is troubling to me as a value investor.

I agree with Troy Aikman on the MNF broadcast when he said the pocket bound quarterbacks in the league are dinosaurs now in today’s game.

You have to be somewhat mobile and able to extend plays even if you are not a Jackson or Hurts running the ball.

That’s why I don’t favor Wentz.

Heinicke’s mobility from what I see saves us critical field position and time of possession because he can largely avoid the sacks and TFLs that just kill drives.

From what I saw Sunday Washington would be up there with Dallas and Minnesota if we had a consistently productive quarterback like Hurts or what Tua is doing in Miami.

We don’t need Mahomes or Allen.

But again this qb shelf is limited in DC.

Hearing a guy on the Sports Junkies say Wentz is so much better because he was near an MVP in the league at one point and Taylor was undrafted misses the point.

We are in 2022 not 2017 or 2019.

A lot of the same arguments about raw ability and strong arm were made when Jeff George went from team to team. He was the #1 pick yada yada yada.

In the end the team won more games with Tony Banks.

Was he mister right? No, but he was mister right now

 

[Enforcer]

LOL, oh man - Tony Banks!! That's a name I had not heard in forever!

 

[Boone]

On the one hand, I don’t see anyone pining for a Wentz return. But he is not the total incompetent some paint him as. In the Colts last 14 games last season, with Wentz as starter, they won 9 and lost 5 (2 in OT). During that stretch Wentz threw 23 TDs and 6 INTs. I’d certainly say that is at least comparable to what Heinicke has done over 14 weeks. I don’t think either guy ultimately has what it takes which is why I’m hoping to see Sam Howell sooner rather than later.

I don’t think the era of the pocket passer is over. But if you are going to have a guy under center with little to no mobility, you’d better have a top tier pass blocking OL and a QB who makes quick decisions. Wentz as many have said here was a very poor guy from the outset from that ‘fit’ vantage point. While Heinicke is much more evasive, unfortunately he’s probably even worse when it comes to decision-making and his throws are often late.

Better hope Howell is the guy or we stumble onto a real starter or threatening Playoffs may be as good as it gets for us.

 

[Kel Varnsen]

I don’t get why people are obsessed talking about Wentz. Wentz has nothing to do with this discussion. This is about Henicke because he is the one playing. We all want to see him play better. If someone is calling for another QB to play, sure let’s discuss it. But right now, we all know Henicke is the QB and we want to see him play better. He is the key to this team right now and we want to see him play more like that first drive and less like the stretch he had in the late 2nd and early 3rd quarter.

 

[Chris]

It’s what Washington fans do. Goes back Sonny and Billy.

 

[SilentThreat]

The offensive scheme was vastly different with Wentz than it has been over the last 6 weeks. Wentz likely executes THIS game plan in a very similar manor as Heinicke with a potential bigger play ability. That's not to say we need to bench Heinicke, the team is winning... but to act like Heinicke is being asked (and executing) to run the same offense as Wentz is inaccurate.

Heinicke has shown the ability to evade and escape better than Wentz, but he's routinely missed open WRs, thrown bad interceptions (luckily some dropped) and attempted ill advised throws while receivers, or RBs, are running wide open.

 

[Om]

This is kinda fun, and timely.

 

[Kel Varnsen]

That was a really good and fair breakdown. They are winning or as he said “not losing”. They found a formula that is working and yes, some of it is pure luck. But it’s getting the job done. We all know he has to play better, but they also don’t need him to throw 50 times to try and win.

 

[Boone]

Yes - but CAN he play better? He’s had a lot of opportunities to do so the past 2 years and how often has he really played well?

 

[SilentThreat]

Yes - but CAN he play better? He’s had a lot of opportunities to do so the past 2 years and how often has he really played well?

Maybe... maybe we're wrong. He's flashed at times, maybe SNF is when we see that flash... hopefully? He's shown a couple times to take over games. I SERIOUSLY hope Sunday is that game this year. He did it last year vs Atlanta, and Carolina. The game vs Carolina was probably his best game as a professional, if not it's a close second to the playoff game vs the Bucs. I hope it clicks, I really really do. I'm rooting for it to happen...

 

[burgold]

Maybe... maybe we're wrong. He's flashed at times, maybe SNF is when we see that flash... hopefully? He's shown a couple times to take over games. I SERIOUSLY hope Sunday is that game this year. He did it last year vs Atlanta, and Carolina. The game vs Carolina was probably his best game as a professional, if not it's a close second to the playoff game vs the Bucs. I hope it clicks, I really really do. I'm rooting for it to happen...

The interesting thing about Heinicke is he does seem to rise to the occasion. That is, in big games he doesn't choke or play afraid.

 

[Boone]

I agree that he seems to play his best in the toughest situations and biggest moments. I hope Sunday night is another one of those instances.

 

[Boone]

I’ll repeat what I’ve said more than once. It’s not that TH can’t deliver in critical moments - he can and has a number of times . It’s that, the reason we need him to deliver in so many key situations is that he has missed so many much easier opportunities throughout the game and struggles to put up enough points to avoid those late ‘critical’ situations. Obviously that doesn’t fall just on TH. The goal has never been ‘let’s make sure we keep games close so TH can be the hero again’. Those situations have become the norm.

I’m with you Bob on wanting to see TH rolling out, using his legs, do some running. But here’s the thing (and I’ve heard Turner allude to this on his comments). Wide open TH subjects you not just to more off schedule plays where we might have some big plays and more scoring, but it subjects you to out of control and gambling TH who makes throws and decisions that aren’t conducive to consistently winning.

I think both Rivera and Turner are afraid to turn him loose and they might be 100% correct on that front. I think they’ve clearly made the decision that a somewhat hamstrung Taylor isn’t ideal but it keeps us in games, reduces the chance of catastrophic mistakes, and puts the onus on the strength of this team, the defense, to win the close ones.

The bottom line is that we all recognize he has his limitations but so does the backup and at this point barring disaster he’s the guy and all we can do is hope for the best and support him.

 

[Boone]

I know some are tired of the conversation and I get that. This is the Taylor Heinicke thread. I think the reason it is still relevant is because of the tenuous nature of how we are winning, our relatively low-scoring offensive production, and because we are in a situation where really every week is nearly a must-win scenario. Whether we like it or not, that creates a scenario where if it looks like TH can't get it done going forward, there will be a great temptation to turn back to Wentz. That's why you have to talk about it. I don't think anyone wants that, because the only way it's even considered is if things head south.

Let's hope we get the best version of TH ever against the Giants. I really want to see us make it clear who the better team is and win one convincingly at home.