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Shanahan and 2014

Bulldog's Twin said:
That was not my point.

But if I were the owner I would not delude myself into thinking that Shanahan has been a victim of the NFL and just needs one more year to straighten out all the jagged edges on this team.
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I don't think many of us fans think Shammy has been a victim of anything other than his own arrogance. But I believe the media, both local, and national, will indeed provide such an escape from responsibility, should he be fired this offseason. Then, via his buddy, Adam Shefter, we'll spend an offseason of hearing all the dirty laundry being aired, 24/7. Making the job for a new head coach, that much tougher.

2 year extension, with the expressed intention to fire him with anything less than a winning record.
 
The problem I have with that solution is that the one ace in the hole we have is the $25-30M in cap room.

If we keep Shanahan and he goes all out to put together a team to win in 2014 with limited consideration for the future, forget bringing in a new coach and GM in 2015 because he will have no resources to make changes.

The Griffin trade took all the high picks and with some bad contracts in 2014 we could be sunk.
 
I don't believe that'll happen.

And I don't buy into the 3 extra picks we gave up for Robert as being the end of the world.
 
I'm not worried about Shanahan over spending for guys in a win now move. Even when they were spending money on "win now" moves in year 1 and 2 the contracts were reasonable. I am worried that we continue to bring in the wrong guys though. Let's face it, if a guy is on the market there is a reason for it and none of them are good.
 
Lanky Livingston said:
Oh, I missed Ax's sarcasm. Riggins actually was a head case, which is why I was confused when you responded with a choir boy.
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Yes but I read it as "hey not everyone available is a failure"... hence the reference to Fletch..
 
No, not everyone available is a failure or a head case but there is a reason that every guy on the market is on the market. It might just be that they want more money than their current team is willing to pony up or that they want out of a bad situation for them personally but there is a reason. More often than not that reason should serve as a "buyer beware" sign and too often in our past that sign has not been heeded.

Yes, Riggins and Fletcher turned out fine. My problem is that for every Riggins there is a Jeff George and a Lavernious Coles and a Tyler Polumbus, and for every London Fletcher there is an Albert Haynesworth and a Deon Sanders and Dana Stubblefield. We make more bad decisions in FA than we do good.
 
Neophyte said:
No, not everyone available is a failure or a head case but there is a reason that every guy on the market is on the market. It might just be that they want more money than their current team is willing to pony up or that they want out of a bad situation for them personally but there is a reason. More often than not that reason should serve as a "buyer beware" sign and too often in our past that sign has not been heeded.

Yes, Riggins and Fletcher turned out fine. My problem is that for every Riggins there is a Jeff George and a Lavernious Coles and a Tyler Polumbus, and for every London Fletcher there is an Albert Haynesworth and a Deon Sanders and Dana Stubblefield. We make more bad decisions in FA than we do good.
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Not really fair to compare those FA pickups to this regime...

I understand what you mean though, and when we got Riggins, it was a completely different game. In the current NFL it's going to be difficult to find a starter at a decent price. Most guys who deserve to start know it, other teams know it, and their agents know it. Rarely you can find a FA gem, or a guy who fits a scheme, but the majority of the FA either have a knock against them, or they're looking for more money.
 
It is very difficult to build depth through free agency.

Because of the Griffin trade and picks surrendered the Redskins have no choice but to wade in that pool.

If we are going to be in challenging times I would prefer to see a strong GM in place to oversee the transition.

You can like Mike Rizzo or not but no one is confused about who is in charge with the Nationals.

And it is someone that has put in the time as a scout and personnel guy.

He is not a bench manager trying to do both jobs.
 
Bulldog's Twin said:
It is very difficult to build depth through free agency.

Because of the Griffin trade and picks surrendered the Redskins have no choice but to wade in that pool.

If we are going to be in challenging times I would prefer to see a strong GM in place to oversee the transition.

You can like Mike Rizzo or not but no one is confused about who is in charge with the Nationals.

And it is someone that has put in the time as a scout and personnel guy.

He is not a bench manager trying to do both jobs.
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I agree with you about Rizzo, dude is the prototype for a good MLB GM imho... problem is that MLB I completely different then NFL. In the NFL, all 11 guys need to be the right fit for the same scheme every single play. The coach NEEDS to have input on the players they get. Rizzo has brought in a lot of young talent, and has been developing the team, but lets be honest, outside of some fundamental basics and team building. The manager in baseball has very little actual effect of the outcome of a single game. Over 162 games the managers presence and ability will be tested, but come the first pitch, the manager doesn't have to worry about scheming plays every time the ball is in play. Sure he needs to know when to pinch hit, sub pitchers, juggle a lineup on a given day, but its different.
 
SilentThreat said:
Not really fair to compare those FA pickups to this regime...

I understand what you mean though, and when we got Riggins, it was a completely different game. In the current NFL it's going to be difficult to find a starter at a decent price. Most guys who deserve to start know it, other teams know it, and their agents know it. Rarely you can find a FA gem, or a guy who fits a scheme, but the majority of the FA either have a knock against them, or they're looking for more money.
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You say that like this regime has had a lot better results in the FA market. How many Safeties have we brought in and Reed is still a starter? How many guys on the Defensive Line and we can't get any push up the middle? How many guys on the Offensive Line (that would 4 out of 5 for you counting at home) and Robert is still running for his life?

I submit to you that Pierre Garçon is the only truly successful FA pick up this club has made under Shanahan/Allen. I might add Sav Rocca and Kai Forbath to that list but Rocca probably should have been replaced this year and I'm not big on counting specialist on this list because those are nearly all FA on every team in the league.

So on the positive side of the ledger we have Pierre and on the negative side we Josh Morgan, Tyler Polumbus, the two safeties from last year whose names I forget, Meriwheather, and a host of other guys who got cut. And I think I am being nice by not bringing up the other 3 FA starters on the Offensive Line.

I included guys from several different eras specifically because I wanted to show a organizational issue over time, and because Ax went all the way back to Beathard/Pardee to use Riggins as a positive example and you went back to Gibbs II to find Fletcher as another positive example.
 
I'll take missing on FA acquisitions the way this regime is over missing the way the old regime did every day of the week.

Same goes for the draft.
 
Neophyte said:
You say that like this regime has had a lot better results in the FA market. How many Safeties have we brought in and Reed is still a starter? How many guys on the Defensive Line and we can't get any push up the middle? How many guys on the Offensive Line (that would 4 out of 5 for you counting at home) and Robert is still running for his life?

I submit to you that Pierre Garçon is the only truly successful FA pick up this club has made under Shanahan/Allen. I might add Sav Rocca and Kai Forbath to that list but Rocca probably should have been replaced this year and I'm not big on counting specialist on this list because those are nearly all FA on every team in the league.

So on the positive side of the ledger we have Pierre and on the negative side we Josh Morgan, Tyler Polumbus, the two safeties from last year whose names I forget, Meriwheather, and a host of other guys who got cut.

I included guys from several different eras specifically because I wanted to show a organizational issue over time, and because Ax went all the way back to Beathard/Pardee to use Riggins as a positive example and you went back to Gibbs II to find Fletcher as another positive example.
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understood, but my response was more tongue in cheek then anything else. I get it, we have holes. That being said, he's actually done a lot of addition by subtraction. I know it's beating a dead horse here, but the cap hit has had an effect on having a good FA class come in here. If i'm not mistaken, we were in the market for either Vincent Jackson or Eddie Royal, then the night before FA started, the cap hit came down and destroyed that. In his first year with the team, he had the mess to deal with, and the second season as the epic cap purging season.


He might not have brought new guys in here, but he did have quite a few guys restructure to stay here, and/or let them step away and come back for less. That might not be a "free agent" but it's still personnel moves.
 
tshile said:
I'll take missing on FA acquisitions the way this regime is over missing the way the old regime did every day of the week.

Same goes for the draft.
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How is it different? We are still a bad team getting worse and we are still the laughing stock with no real hope. Bad is bad whether it is dressed in a shinier package or not.
 
Elephant said:
How is it different? We are still a bad team getting worse and we are still the laughing stock with no real hope. Bad is bad whether it is dressed in a shinier package or not.
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because we can now see the places that need addressing.... before, we threw our hands up and said "where do we start." At least now there is a tangible difference in the team. We have a clear core group of young talent, the team is going to get very young after this season, and there's $30 mil in cap space next year. The FA class wont be the end all but at least we can make the acquisition, as well as plug in a couple more pieces.
 
We should be aiming to match the success of the Seahawks and Broncos rather than looking back to say we are better off now than with Cerrato and Zorn.

That is the bottom of the well.
 
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