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Shanahan and 2014

Washington Taylor beat Panthers

Bulldog

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Mike Shanahan is a desperate coach. With 3 last place finishes in 4 years, even if he is retained he will be desperate, desperate to improve in 2014 whatever the cost.

And THAT is why I think he needs to go after the end of the season.

Shanahan is a bit of the river boat gambler as we saw in the Griffin trade.

With $25-$30M in cap space there will be a strong pull to make moves for the very short term.

As the de facto GM there is no one to check his power and question any of these decisions.

Half of our future is up in the air with the four high picks going to the Rams for Griffin.

The cap room in 2014 is a large part of that other half.

Unlike an Ozzie Newsome or Ted Thompson I am concerned having a desperate Shanahan out there looking to salvage his coaching reputation will make moves that cost the future of the organization.

It is an inherent conflict of interest when you wear both hats.

I still haven't seen a coach that was his own personnel man win the Super Bowl.

I think we need new and younger leadership from a guy that is ambitious but to build his first championship team, not protect his image from the past.
 

Canadian Hog

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Year 1 and 2 of the Shanahan experiment were all about cutting fat and cleaning house. He gets a free pass for those two seasons in my estimation.

The Redskins are essentially on the 2nd year in terms of their growth process.

With one of the younger rosters in the league, it's imperative that decisions made in regards to the coaching situation are made with an eye towards the future.

Whoever is put in charge of this team moving forward needs to be given an opportunity to grow with it.

If it's Shanahan, so be it. If it's somebody else, so be it. Whatever is decided, Snyder can't go back to playing musical head coaches as he did in the past when you think of where this team is in terms of it's maturation process. With young pieces in place at a few key positions (Griffin, Morris, Garcon, Reed, Kerrigan, Williams), it's imperative that we decide on a coach who can best bring these guys along and help them take the next step, as opposed to giving these guys reasons to jump on the first train out of Washington at the expiration of their contracts.

I tend to agree with you BT - if it is feared that Shanahan will do things to simply protect himself in 2014, then as absurd as it seems, give him a contract
extension at the end of the year and commit to him for the foreseeable future to potentially avoid short-term, desperate moves that can destroy us long-term.
 

SilentThreat

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A couple points, but I will first say that im not saying Shanny is the answer or the solution. I do feel he deserves to have a team without all the "x" factors. I admit that at the beginning of the season I had Homer goggles on. Iicked us to go 10-6, but now that we're here... no chance. This has been a very disappointing season, and with what has happened, its impossible to imagine ant real success.

God willing, Griffin finishes this season healthy, he will have something he has never had before.... a professional offseason. In college, he had classes a,d last year he was dealing with the knee. He wasn't able to work on pocket presence, timing with receivers, timing with O-line (something people dont point out, but I think its as important as timing with recievers), an confidence in his passing ability without the fear of the knee.

Also, like Canadian Hog said, this techically is year 2. He will be entering year 3 with the same core of offensive players, running the same system (a top 10 offense I might add, as bad as things may have been).

This team is going to drop a lot of age, and a lot of expense at the end of the season. Shanny has been handcuffes in one way or another since he got here so I absolutely think he should get next year to keep on track with his plan. I agree that if we dont see a legit step in tbe right direction, address it then.


One thimg I wouldnt be surprised about is if Shanny dumps Haslett. If he does he get buys himself more time, given the institution of a new defensive scheme will always have its struggles.... if the defensive change works, he looks like a genius.

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SC_RedskinsFan

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So if this is his year 2, he went 10-6 in year one and in fact we all thought he gave up on the season last year and the players pulled it together. Now in year 2 we sit at 3-9. We will be extremely lucky to get to 5-11, and could very well end up 3-13. Any coach that does that is not showing improvement. I think this year has set us back a couple of years.

Are you willing to give Shanny 2-3 more years? What happens if we keep him and next year is just as bad, then what? Wait one more year? This young team will be gone, because their contracts will be up and who could blame them for wanting to get out of here. Who wants to play for a constant loser.... I hate to say it but we are one of the worst teams in the league.

These are just my thoughts, I am not saying "you" in reference to anyone.

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SilentThreat

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Oh I get it.. after next season if we haven't made the playoffs, you go in a different direction.

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McD5

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This dipshit should have been fired the second the MRI results came back from Seattle.
 

Bulldog

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If Year 1 and 2 were about cleaning house and laying the groundwork to win, then how come this team looks so inept in all phases in Year 4?

See, the problem I have is that the McNabb and Jamaal Brown trades for 33 and 30 year old players and signing guys like 30 year old Chris Chester were moves made not for the future, or setting the table, but rather to try and win games right away.

With the oldest roster in the NFL in 2009 this team was not a few players away from winning consistently.

A smart GM would have seen that and used those 2, 3, and 4 picks on younger players who could help us on the OL, at CB and other positions.

So, some of the depth issues we have now go back to burning those 2010 and 2011 picks.

In terms of the salary cap 'hell', the team had a chance to unload Haynesworth during the 2011 draft, sending him back to TN for a middle round pick.

Instead Shanahan kept him for another year despite no sign the lineman was ever going to play serious minutes here again.

In my mind 2010 and 2011 were not such clear 'wins' for this staff and front office.

Judging by results we had the oldest roster in the NFL and finished 6-10 and in last place in 2010.

In 2013 we now have the second oldest roster and are 3-9 and in last place.
 

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I agree BT. Posters seem to want to give MS a pass for the first 2 years b/c of the state of the team when he inherited it, but seem to forget that he traded precious picks for Brown and McNabb. The brown trade still really ticks me off since MS just gave up on the RT position after brown didn't work out. 4 years is enough time to rebuild a team if you are committed to it. Shanny was not.
 

Lanky Livingston

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Chester was 27 when we signed him, in his prime and coming off a very successful year filling in for the regular starter in Baltimore. Nobody should have any problem with that signing. He was decent in 2011 and 2012, but 2013 he has not been very good. Sometimes these moves don't work out...it happens. Get over it.

The Jamal Brown trade was fine at least in my opinion - maybe they should have done more due diligence w.r.t. the hip injury, but maybe they thought he'd fully recover and get back to his dominating self. He was really good when healthy. It was a gamble, and they lost. It happens, get over it. He was also only 30 when they signed him, and OTs can last well into their 30s; it was not unreasonable to expect 3 or 4 years of good to great performance from Brown, it just didn't happen.

Finally, the McNabb trade. A mobile QB with a good long ball is the perfect fit for the Shanahan offense. Yes, it didn't work out, but in my opinion that's all on McNabb. He didn't put in the work to learn a new system, as his ego was too big. He thought we should bend our system around him, and make him do less work. Bullshit! That lazy bastage could have been great in Washington, he just didn't put in the work.

As far as the second oldest roster in the NFL goes, Detroit has the oldest roster in the NFL and is 7-5 sitting in first place. The Cardinals have the 3rd oldest roster, and sit at 7-5 (however they are 3rd in the toughest division in football). The Broncos have the 5th oldest roster, and are 10-2 and in first place. Age ain't nothin' but a number.
 

Ax

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Yeah, the age is a little misleading for us. A handful of vets, that likely won't be here next year, will lower our average a good bit.
Rocca-40, Fletcher-38, Moss-34, Barnett-33, and Grossman-33.

Throw in a D. Hall, and Cedric Golston, both 30, with whatever drafted rookies make the squad, and age is a non factor.
 

Elephant

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Chester was 27 when we signed him, in his prime and coming off a very successful year filling in for the regular starter in Baltimore. Nobody should have any problem with that signing. He was decent in 2011 and 2012, but 2013 he has not been very good. Sometimes these moves don't work out...it happens. Get over it.

The Jamal Brown trade was fine at least in my opinion - maybe they should have done more due diligence w.r.t. the hip injury, but maybe they thought he'd fully recover and get back to his dominating self. He was really good when healthy. It was a gamble, and they lost. It happens, get over it. He was also only 30 when they signed him, and OTs can last well into their 30s; it was not unreasonable to expect 3 or 4 years of good to great performance from Brown, it just didn't happen.

Finally, the McNabb trade. A mobile QB with a good long ball is the perfect fit for the Shanahan offense. Yes, it didn't work out, but in my opinion that's all on McNabb. He didn't put in the work to learn a new system, as his ego was too big. He thought we should bend our system around him, and make him do less work. Bullshit! That lazy bastage could have been great in Washington, he just didn't put in the work.

As far as the second oldest roster in the NFL goes, Detroit has the oldest roster in the NFL and is 7-5 sitting in first place. The Cardinals have the 3rd oldest roster, and sit at 7-5 (however they are 3rd in the toughest division in football). The Broncos have the 5th oldest roster, and are 10-2 and in first place. Age ain't nothin' but a number.
You're grading them through the prism of "what could have been". That's just not an adequate method to gauge success. You gauge success by the product's performance.

Chester? I guess I could give them a pass, but he needs to be replaced now. We got 2 years out of him and now we have to replace him.

Jamal Brown? Really? You're going to give them a pass? OK, I guess the initial trade could be forgiven in light of his potential, but what about the ridiculous contract we gave him when he hadn't ever really seen the field for us? How do you justify that move?

McNabb? I admit, I was not entirely opposed to that...unfortunately, it turned out to be a terrible move.

So while you're willing to give them a pass because the potential was there...I say they failed on everyone of those moves in light of where we sit right now and they need to be held accountable for those poor decisions.
 

Lanky Livingston

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You're grading them through the prism of "what could have been". That's just not an adequate method to gauge success. You gauge success by the product's performance.

Chester? I guess I could give them a pass, but he needs to be replaced now. We got 2 years out of him and now we have to replace him.

Jamal Brown? Really? You're going to give them a pass? OK, I guess the initial trade could be forgiven in light of his potential, but what about the ridiculous contract we gave him when he hadn't ever really seen the field for us? How do you justify that move?

McNabb? I admit, I was not entirely opposed to that...unfortunately, it turned out to be a terrible move.

So while you're willing to give them a pass because the potential was there...I say they failed on everyone of those moves in light of where we sit right now and they need to be held accountable for those poor decisions.

Right, in hindsight, they are all decent to mediocre moves. I forgot to mention the Brown extension; that was definitely a boneheaded move. I'm willing to give them a pass for the intial trade though; it wasn't a terrible deal. I think we got a 6th from New Orleans, and they got our 3rd or 4th round pick. I'd do that trade again in a similar situation, in hopes that a proven tackle can come back from injury.
 

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Right, in hindsight, they are all decent to mediocre moves. I forgot to mention the Brown extension; that was definitely a boneheaded move. I'm willing to give them a pass for the intial trade though; it wasn't a terrible deal. I think we got a 6th from New Orleans, and they got our 3rd or 4th round pick. I'd do that trade again in a similar situation, in hopes that a proven tackle can come back from injury.
And over the past...oh, I don't how many years...we have been trying to get once established players instead of building through the draft. We need draft picks more than Free Agents.
 

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Let me ask this question. When Johnson went to Dallas did he immediately trade high picks for an aging qb on what was a last place team?

Did Bill Walsh trade for an aging veteran with high future picks coming into a 49ers organization that went 2-14?

No, of course not. They stockpiled picks and selected qbs in the draft.

While Dallas had the first pick the 49ers didn't get Montana until the third round.

But neither organization made consecutive trades for qbs that depleted the teams' picks.

For McNabb and Griffin the Redskins gave up 1, 1, 1, 2, 2, and 4th round picks total.

Just for one position.

And the cap is to blame for the lack of depth?

Come on, let's at least admit some of the truth, we haven't been efficient with the use of our picks.

Seattle gets Wilson in the third round. SF gets Kaepernick in the second round. The Saints got Brees as a free agent. Both Roethlisberger and Aaron Rodgers were mid to late first rounders.

In other words getting a qb didn't cripple these teams ability to keep improving their rosters.
 

Bulldog

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That was not my point.

But if I were the owner I would not delude myself into thinking that Shanahan has been a victim of the NFL and just needs one more year to straighten out all the jagged edges on this team.
 

Bulldog

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It's interesting that you bring up Cousins. While I haven't heard many calls for Cousins from Washington fans, it appears other NFL players like Brooks and Canty seem to think Griffin's knee is still an issue and should be given a break down the stretch to allow him to have a healthy and productive offseason.
 

tshile

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The time to start Cousins was weeks 1 - 6, when griffin was clearly not right.

But we had the all in for week 1 thing, so that wasn't going to happen.

Griffin needs to play now and grow as a QB. Benching him now would be foolish.
 

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That was not my point.

But if I were the owner I would not delude myself into thinking that Shanahan has been a victim of the NFL and just needs one more year to straighten out all the jagged edges on this team.
You bring up the Mcnabb pick up over and over. I didn't want him at the time, and in retrospect it was a major blunder, but no one (save Reid and Philly insiders) seemed to think Mcnabb was washed up at the time. We didn't give the farm for him, although yeah, in retrospect it was an example of wasting picks. The cost for RG3 was what it was. Did you think Russell Wilson or Kaepernick or others were going to be stars at that time? Yeah, Griffin cost a ton. I'm willing to bet in 2 or 3 years no one will be arguing he wasn't worth every bit of what it cost to draft him. Did it delay the rebuilding of this team? That can't be disputed. Have Shanahan and this front office made other mistakes? Yes. But to hear you tell it they've done nothing but flounder and blunder. I think you are overstating your case. Everything is clear in hindsight.
 

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