Redskins Recon - Jay Gruden to the Redskins-Views from the opposition-and more

[Ax]

Bah now ya got me stumped trying to remember a book I read in college about a shipwrecked man who goes through hell to get himself right only to discover in the end he's been dead the whole time and it's just his life flashing before his eyes one last time. For the life of me I can't remember the book but it was a total mindf@*#...kinda like this team has been lately!

The thing about this that's remarkable is until this year I have been right there with ya. I have zero confidence at this point though, I'm going to need to see results before I get sucked back into that positive vortex again.

I certainly understand CT.

But whenever pessimism tries to get in my head, I hear Gunny Highway whisper in my ear, "Don't give the prick the satisfaction!"

Then I'm back on my feet, rifle overhead, running circles around the marching platoon.

"Recon!!!"

 

[CounterTrey]

But if that's the case that's not good either. So we want a guy who's so personally weak he'd allow his unit to be seemingly sabotaged like this without ever raising a stink about it? That might be worse!

 

[Ax]

If he quit, he wouldn't get paid. If he pulled stunts to get fired, in order to not lose the money, then he'd be as big an asshole as Shamahan.

 

[Bulldog]

That is not what I remember.

What I recall is Shanahan saying that during his year away he researched the effectiveness of the 3-4 defense and called several defensive coaches with 3-4 experience to discuss the scheme and how it could be most effectively employed.

Haslett was one of those coaches and based on their talks he got a call from Shanahan about the DC position in Washington when it was clear that Zorn would not be retained.

Now that Mike is gone it seems there are a lot of attempts to relieve him of responsibility for things that transpired over the last few years from the McNabb trade to the signing of guys like Atogwe to the drafting of busts like LeRibeus and the failures of all the assistants.

Mike asked for control and got it.

You can blame Snyder for giving Shanahan too much power, but most at the time thought it was a good idea.

Shanahan owns 24-40.

Why? Because he wanted to press every button himself and 24-40 was the result.

 

[Henry]

No, Goal, what I am saying is this team is not that team. Zo Alexander is gone. Fletcher is retiring. Griff is injured and might not ever be the same guy. Cofield, Bowen, Golston, Montgomery, Chester and Moss are all two years older and might be on the wrong end of the age curve now. In a couple of cases with that list they guy is definitely on the wrong side of the age curve and not likely to be back with the team. We have a metric ton of free agents. Not to mention that most of that team had been together in the same systems for 2 and half years before they went on that 7-0 run, Griff and Morris being the big exceptions.

It isn't the same team. And that "sameness" will decrease even more now as Gruden and his coaching staff bring in new guys and modify the systems the current guys are in.

Eh. All teams turnover some. We haven't been, and aren't going to be, unusual in that regard. The key players are all young, and will all be back.

The bottom line is 3-13 was not a reflection of the team's talent. It was the result of the coach losing control of the team, which is why the coach got fired. It's why Reid got fired. It's why Wisenhunt and Spagnuolo got fired. When that happens and you bring in a new coach, you expect the players to at least play with competence. With a Franchise QB, a bonafide #1 WR, a pro-bowl LT, a top ten RB already set ... that should get you eight. Barring catastrophic injury there really should be no excuse.

 

[fansince62]

Eh. All teams turnover some. We haven't been, and aren't going to be, unusual in that regard. The key players are all young, and will all be back.

The bottom line is 3-13 was not a reflection of the team's talent. It was the result of the coach losing control of the team, which is why the coach got fired. It's why Reid got fired. It's why Wisenhunt and Spagnuolo got fired. When that happens and you bring in a new coach, you expect the players to at least play with competence. With a Franchise QB, a bonafide #1 WR, a pro-bowl LT, a top ten RB already set ... that should get you eight. Barring catastrophic injury there really should be no excuse.

small disagreement. I think the team's bigger problem was a QB who was completely unready to take the reigns game one. it was all downhill from there and led to a context which drove many of the other problems.

agree that the talent is better than 3-13....though on defense I don't know how MUCH better!

 

[Neophyte]

Eh. All teams turnover some. We haven't been, and aren't going to be, unusual in that regard. The key players are all young, and will all be back.

The bottom line is 3-13 was not a reflection of the team's talent. It was the result of the coach losing control of the team, which is why the coach got fired. It's why Reid got fired. It's why Wisenhunt and Spagnuolo got fired. When that happens and you bring in a new coach, you expect the players to at least play with competence. With a Franchise QB, a bonafide #1 WR, a pro-bowl LT, a top ten RB already set ... that should get you eight. Barring catastrophic injury there really should be no excuse.

We are going to have to agree to disagree for the time being, Henry. While those 4 positions are very important, they aren't the whole team. There are 18 other starters on offense and defense without even bringing up Special Teams (and our Special Teams have closer to short bus special of late). I just don't think having those four nailed down guarantees anything and to me there are questions about one of the four you mentioned.

I also don't think we are going to be talking about "some" turnover. I expect huge turnover. Like to the tune of 40% of the roster.

I'm not being pessimistic either. I'm just looking at this like I would try to look at any other team in the league, rather than the one I have loved for 4 decades.

 

[Henry]

We are going to have to agree to disagree for the time being, Henry. While those 4 positions are very important, they aren't the whole team. There are 18 other starters on offense and defense without even bringing up Special Teams (and our Special Teams have closer to short bus special of late). I just don't think having those four nailed down guarantees anything and to me there are questions about one of the four you mentioned.

I also don't think we are going to be talking about "some" turnover. I expect huge turnover. Like to the tune of 40% of the roster.

I'm not being pessimistic either. I'm just looking at this like I would try to look at any other team in the league, rather than the one I have loved for 4 decades.

Honestly, I look at any team that is set at QB and I assume they are going to win eight games. It's why last year everyone was wondering what the hell was wrong with the Lions. It's why this year everyone was wondering what the hell was wrong with the Giants. The only reason nobody wondered what was wrong with us was because our QB was coming off major surgery, earlier than 99% of most people who have it.

As I said in my initial post, our defense needs a lot of work. That will continue to be a weakness. Special Teams performance is a function of coaching more than anything else. We should expect a huge improvement there no matter who's on the team. Our offense should be in the top ten again. Again, if Griffin is healthy and this team loses 12 games we are in for a loooooong couple of years.

 

[fansince62]

"we're told"...especially second-hand from PFT != "we know"

no matter the pecking order...Shanahan approved the signing.

 

[Neophyte]

Honestly, I look at any team that is set at QB and I assume they are going to win eight games. It's why last year everyone was wondering what the hell was wrong with the Lions. It's why this year everyone was wondering what the hell was wrong with the Giants. The only reason nobody wondered what was wrong with us was because our QB was coming off major surgery, earlier than 99% of most people who have it.

Two great examples of teams "set" at QB falling off a cliff. One because the QB is seriously erratic and the team had health issues, and one because the offensive line totally disappeared in front of him and he isn't mobile enough to succeed and their entire RB core feel apart health wise. And that is kinda my point. While the QB might be the most important player on the field, he is not out there alone and if the supporting cast isn't at least average then the team will struggle. I also don't think any of us can assume we are set at QB, not until we see Robert come back and perform like he did his first year. As I said in my first post here, he might never be the same QB again.

As I said in my initial post, our defense needs a lot of work. That will continue to be a weakness. Special Teams performance is a function of coaching more than anything else. We should expect a huge improvement there no matter who's on the team. Our offense should be in the top ten again. Again, if Griffin is healthy and this team loses 12 games we are in for a loooooong couple of years.

See, I view Special Teams as a function of depth as much as of coaching. Clubs with great ST's are often the deepest clubs in the league and that is where our team has fallen so short. It is the place Gruden and Allen have to be the most worried. We have zero depth in the defensive secondary and hardly any of quality in the WR or LB corp, all three of which are usually the backbone of your Special Teams units. Sure, better coaching will help here, no question. But more quality players is key as well.

And don't get me wrong, I am not saying 8 or more wins isn't possible. I am just saying I won't be stunned if we don't get to 8 and I won't think it is an indication that the sky is falling for 2015 either.

 

[CarolinaSkin43]

Very interesting reading and some very comical....bleeding Burgundy and Gold for 53 years baby HTTR....gotta believe...Got
to believe.....