Redskins Recon - Jay Gruden to the Redskins-Views from the opposition-and more

[Fear The Spear]

Cousins is 1-3 in his career...with 1 save

and ZERO blown saves.

He's better than Mariano Rivera.

So don't tell me we can't get a 1st Rounder for him !!

 

[SkinsFTW]

Sounded like LaCanfora was reporting that the decision's been made - Haslett will return as the DC. Not as 'Asst Head Coach' or in some other role - but he's our DC. Color me skeptical.

Well maybe they think the D from late 2012 will be what he can consistenly give us, but thats going to be contingent on their offense putting up 25+ a game consistently, so really Gruden's just giving himself more pressure. Hey if his offense works that well then let see but you all know I'm skeptical. Hasletts D has won us how many games in 4 years? Like we see Seattles defense do routinely, or Carolinas, or Arizonas, or the Pats D saves one for Brady sometimes too. I may have missed those games if it's happened. Wade Phillips sits on his couch and we're sticking with Haslett AGAIN when we already watch this movie in 2011 when Phillips turned the 30th ranked D into the 2nd overnight while we were still sitting there watching Haslett buffoonery.

 

[SkinsFTW]

The last half of the season our D wasn't nearly as bad as it was the first. They were playing better but were out there too long

The D was actually pretty good to start the season as well but we kept turning the ball over and going 3 and out. The D scored more TD's than the O by halftime for 6-7 games to start the season. I still have little faith in Haslett to give us a top 5 defense or hold onto 4th quarter leads.

 

[CounterTrey]

Come on Mike...how the hell can anyone expect positivity when it comes to Haslett at this point? I've been an optimist to the point of homerism but even I am at the breaking point with Haslett and our team's perplexing act of keeping him against all logical reason at this stage. Really, we keep a guy because he might make someone comfortable ion becoming a head coach? Seriously? WTF!?

What have you seen that is a reason for ANYONE to have hope that Has is suddenly going to turn into a fantastic coordinator who leads a top ranked D? He's never done it before.

 

[Ax]

Well CT, if the rumors were true, Haslett was given more free reign in the second half of 2012, which included improved play from the defense, during the 7 game stretch run. Only to have it taken away again, this past season.

He gets the last year of his contract, along with some new pieces from the FA and the draft, to prove his worth, or, confirm his worthlessness.

And for me personally, a lack of optimism, means I stop watching. I don't see any other conclusion.

But that's just me.

 

[CounterTrey]

I keep watching because I'm addicted, not because I think they'll win. I wouldn't have tuned in most of the year this year if optimism was my barometer. Improved does not necessarily equal good. When you're on a record setting pace for ineptitude, improvement is about the only thing you can do. I'm with Om, I have yet to see a single thing from his entire career to sway me into thinking this year will be any different and that is profoundly depressing to me. If I have to watch our secondary play 15 yards off on another 3rd and 8 I think I'm going to lose it.

 

[Om]

It's not just about the 4 years in Washington, where one can point to possible mitigating factors like the personnel mess he inherited, the cap penalty and the recent rumors about Shanahan's meddling into the defense.

The Haslett Files: Defensive Coordinator Version

2013 (WAS)

31st Points Allowed (29.9)
18th Total Yards (354.1)
17th Rush Defense (110.6)
20th Pass Defense (243.5)

2012 (WAS)

22nd Points Allowed (24.2)
28th Total Yards (377.7)
5th Rush Defense (95.8)
30th Pass Defense (281.9)

2011 (WAS)

21st Points Allowed (22.9)
13th Total Yards (339.8)
18th Rush Defense (117.8)
12th Pass Defense (222.1)

2010 (WAS)

21st Points Allowed (23.6)
31st Total Yards (389.2)
26th Rush Defense (127.6)
31st Pass Defense (261.7)


2007 (STL)

31st Points Allowed
21st Total Yards
20th Rush Yards
21st Pass Yards

2006 (STL)

28th Points Allowed
23rd Total Yards
31st Rush Yards
8th Pass Yards


1999 (PITT)

12th Points Allowed
11th Total Yards
26th Rush Yards
4th Pass Yards

1998 (PITT)

7th Points Allowed
12th Total Yards
13th Rush Yards
18th Pass Yards

1997 (PITT)

11th Points Allowed
6th Total Yards
1st Rush Yards
18th Pass Yards

 

[CounterTrey]

And keep in mind that the Pitt years he had a stacked D with lebeau's schemes and plays he was running. It was a defensive version of a "Switzer".

 

[CounterTrey]

It's the eye test Mike. The decision making and lack of adjustments coupled with the weekly lack of improvement to things we KNOW don't work is enough for me, let alone the statistical numbers that make him look below average at best. And if he was being that hampered by Shanny and was just rolling over and not doing something about it I have a problem with that too.

 

[Boone]

I think the overall point is that the most positive characterization of Haslett's career as a DC is that he has been able to field middle of the pack units at times, but almost never a top 10 unit, and almost never fielded both a really good pass and rush defense at the same time. And he's been at this awhile. At some point all of the excuses and mitigating factors don't matter. The stats, ultimately, don't lie over the long haul.

 

[Ax]

I am well aware of Haslett and his history.

Like Shamahan, I didn't want him.

But if he remains as DC, I will continue to be hopeful, that he will somehow make it work.

I also know that a middle of the pack defense, in combination with a rolling offense, can indeed win it all.

Were we talking about how I'm gonna pay my rent, I promise you, just being hopeful wouldn't cut it. We're talking about football, and our favorite team. I'm old enough, and have seen enough football, to know that ANYTHING is possible. And since the only decision that is up to me, is whether or not I choose to be hopeful, or doubtful, about their future...

I remain ever hopeful, that the greatest possibilities, will befall our beloved team.

 

[CounterTrey]

Well good for you Ax...after over 35 years as a fan I've finally reached a breaking point with Haslett. If he's here as DC hope is going to be a bit of a pipe dream for me.

 

[tshile]

Please don't take me as a Haslett defender... because I'm not. I just think this is an important part of discussing last year...

I started railing at the start of the 2013 season that the reason our defense looked so bad (statistically and the eye test) was because our offense was dreadful every time they had the ball to start the game. I mean... look at this. The first 4 losses of 2013:

Vs Eagles - [url=http://espn.go.com/nfl/drivechart?gameId=330909028]Philadelphia Eagles vs. Washington Redskins - Drive Chart - September 09, 2013 - ESPN[/url]
[u]Start 	Qtr	TOP	Yard	Plays	Yards	Result[/u]
09:15	1	00:08	WSH 20	1	3	Fumble
08:59	1	01:39	WSH 20	3	1	Intercepted Pass
05:01  	1	00:11	WSH 5	2	-5	Safety
02:00	1	03:14	WSH 20	5	16	Punt
09:48	2	01:31	WSH 6	4	11	Punt
06:10	2	01:59	WSH 9	3	1	Punt
00:58	2	00:58	WSH 13	3	8	End of Half

Vs Packers - [url=http://espn.go.com/nfl/drivechart?gameId=330915009]Washington Redskins vs. Green Bay Packers - Drive Chart - September 15, 2013 - ESPN[/url]
[u]Start 	Qtr	TOP	Yard	Plays	Yards	Result[/u]
08:02	1	01:49	WSH 20	4	20	Punt
04:03	1	00:46	WSH 7	3	3	Punt
02:27 	1	02:27	WSH 20	4	47	Punt
11:40       2	01:25	WSH 20	4	22	Punt
07:07	2 	04:11	WSH 7	8	64	Intercepted Pass
00:00	2	00:00	GB 0	1	-1	End of Half

Vs Detroit - [url=http://espn.go.com/nfl/drivechart?gameId=330922028]Detroit Lions vs. Washington Redskins - Box Score - September 22, 2013 - ESPN[/url]
[u]Start 	Qtr	TOP	Yard	Plays	Yards	Result[/u]
12:39	1	03:08	WSH 20	7	29	Punt
05:05	1	01:13	WSH 19	3	6	Punt
14:47	2	05:49	WSH 20	10	61	Intercepted Pass
06:53	2	03:24	WSH 28	7	72	Touchdown
00:44	2	00:44	WSH 22	4	21	End of Half

Vs Dallas - [url=http://espn.go.com/nfl/drivechart?gameId=331013006]Washington Redskins vs. Dallas Cowboys - Drive Chart - October 13, 2013 - ESPN[/url]
[u]Start 	Qtr	TOP	Yard	Plays	Yards	Result[/u]
08:52	1	07:14	WSH 20	13	78	Field Goal
12:14	2	02:48	WSH 37	5	8	Punt
06:03	2	03:37	WSH 23	6	12	Punt
02:26	2	02:26	WSH 18	10	68	End of Half

When you filter out the first few weeks of the season the Redskins defense stats improve dramatically. I seem to remember one of the beat reporters saying that the last 10 weeks of the season the defense was ranked in the top 10.

You can't have a successful defense with those starts. I don't give a shit who you are - you cannot be successful when your offense operates that way.

Averaging yards, points, etc over the course of the season and ranking them statistically is a quick and dirty way to look at things. But it's far, far from the whole picture.

Factor in the micromanaging of shanahan... a season that started off poorly and snowballed... a roster that spent 4 years putting significantly more attention to the offense instead of the defense... and this is what you have.

And keep in mind we scored defensive touchdowns quite often to start the season...

That's not to sound like a ringing endorsement for keeping Haslett. I just don't know why he gets the brunt of the blame when there are so many moving parts in evaluating one side of the ball on a 3-13 team.

 

[Ax]

45+ for me CT. Not that it means anything more than having been exposed to all longer.

I find optimism, or pessimism, to be an overall outlook for most people, in either group. Not just in one area. If you are an optimist, you are one the majority of the time, on most issues. Same for the pessimist. I find them both to be choices.

Realism, is used to back up both practices. As either of the possibilities, positive or negative, are realistically possible.
So we choose which realistic possibility we want to, based on our overall view of things.

I am Papillon, floating on a sack of coconuts, in the middle of the ocean.

"I'm still here, Bastards!"

 

[tshile]

Also - if you click on those links for the drive logs and look at our opponents drives in the first half in all four games, what you'll find is that our defense stopped them (or held them to minimal points) at the start of the game. As you get closer to halftime our opponent starts scoring touchdowns (in a few cases, many of them.)

To me this seems to suggest that after putting your defense out on the field for majority of the first half, they start the get tired and the other team gets many opportunities to find and expose weaknesses.

 

[CounterTrey]

Ok now is where the eye test stuff comes in though. Top ten and what were the offenses we played G Men, Cowboys, Atlanta...some pretty piss poor units. I remember Stephen Davis used to get ragged on not because he was fumble prone but because he seemed to have a knack for doing it at the absolute worst times. Same with Haslett...when the game is on the line that D failed time and time again even when the O DID produce for once.

This debate isn't an us vs them deal for me...so at least in my case no one needs to sweat the whole Haslett defender thing. I'm just ready to pull out the 4 remaining hairs I have at this stage, it feels like rinse and repeat.

 

[CounterTrey]

45+ for me CT. Not that it means anything more than having been exposed to all longer.

I find optimism, or pessimism, to be an overall outlook for most people, in either group. Not just in one area. If you are an optimist, you are one the majority of the time, on most issues. Same for the pessimist. I find them both to be choices.

Realism, is used to back up both practices. As either of the possibilities, positive or negative, are realistically possible.
So we choose which realistic possibility we want to, based on our overall view of things.

I am Papillon, floating on a sack of coconuts, in the middle of the ocean.

"I'm still here, Bastards!"

Bah now ya got me stumped trying to remember a book I read in college about a shipwrecked man who goes through hell to get himself right only to discover in the end he's been dead the whole time and it's just his life flashing before his eyes one last time. For the life of me I can't remember the book but it was a total mindf@*#...kinda like this team has been lately!

The thing about this that's remarkable is until this year I have been right there with ya. I have zero confidence at this point though, I'm going to need to see results before I get sucked back into that positive vortex again.

 

[CounterTrey]

Also - if you click on those links for the drive logs and look at our opponents drives in the first half in all four games, what you'll find is that our defense stopped them (or held them to minimal points) at the start of the game. As you get closer to halftime our opponent starts scoring touchdowns (in a few cases, many of them.)

To me this seems to suggest that after putting your defense out on the field for majority of the first half, they start the get tired and the other team gets many opportunities to find and expose weaknesses.

Or it indicates that our numbskulled DC is calling a soft, prevent type defense to close out halfs and getting torched repeatedly.

 

[Om]

so, the good times were because of the players he had that could execute

but the bad times are because he sucks and not the fact that we aren't built for the 3-4?

not trying to argue here..but isn't that hypocritical?

I don't think so, Mike.

That's why I included the context ...

NEW ORLEANS '96

Haslett took over a defense that finished 22nd in the league the year before:

1995 – 22nd overall (18th scoring, 22nd passing, 21st rushing)

... and had some immediate success, most strikingly against the pass:

1996 – 13th overall (20th scoring, 3rd passing, 27th rushing)

The year after he left (to become DC in Pittsburgh in '97) the Saints defense finished top five:

1997 – 4th overall (16th scoring, 6th passing, 14th rushing)


PITTSBURGH '97 – '99

Haslett inherited a pretty damn good defense from the year before (2006):

1996 – 2nd overall (4th scoring, 5th passing, 3rd rushing)

... and, well, you be the judge:

1997 – 6th overall (11th scoring, 18th passing, 1st rushing)
1998 – 12th overall (7th scoring, 18th passing, 13th rushing)
1999 – 11th overall (12th scoring, 4th passing, 26th rushing)

(Check the progress versus the run. Or don't, if you're a Haslett fan)

The year after he left, the Steeler defense trended back the other way:

2000 – 7th overall (6th scoring, 9th passing, 12th rushing)


ST. LOUIS '06 - '07

After his head coaching stint in New Orleans (2000-2005), Haslett was hired by the St. Louis Rams to resurrect their 30th ranked ('05) unit. Not sure what he did quite qualifies as "resurrecting" the Rams' woebegone defensive unit, but he did oversee some improvement:

2006 – 23rd overall (28th scoring, 8th passing, 31st rushing)
2007 – 21st overall (31st scoring, 21st passing, 20th rushing)

​

 

[tshile]

Or it indicates that our numbskulled DC is calling a soft, prevent type defense to close out halfs and getting torched repeatedly.

Given that there are serious rumors that Shanahan ran the defense - even if what you say is what happened, I don't know how you pin it solely on Haslett.

It seems to me that when you take in the entire situation... there's a whole hell of a lot going on, but none of it leads to an undeniable conclusion that Haslett is the main reason for the problems.