QB or not QB

Chris said:
A ‘big boss’ sitting in the room changes the temperature in the room. A ‘big boss’ being involved in the discussions that would clearly follow the interviews would undoubtedly have some impact, as well.

It may ultimately have no affect on the final decision but it also may. Time will tell. It is absolutely Harris’ right to attend. Is it smart? That should fairly be open for debate.
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If this were a meeting one of us was running you are correct. But it isn't.

Let me frame this a little differently. I work for a Fortune 100 (or so) company. I am a single contributor who is roughly 8 levels removed from the CEO. If I'm running a meeting and the CEO sits in, the temperature totally changes. He and I have never spoken. We have no relationship. There would be stress and anxiety on my part.

However, if the CEO decides to sit in on a meeting with the Chief Revenue Officer, nothing changes. The CRO and CEO talk regularly. Maybe even daily. They have a relationship. Odds are good everyone in the CRO's meeting knows the CEO and has something of a relationship with him. This meeting has a totally different tone and should be very much collaborative.

The relationship between Adam and Josh isn't really much different than the relationship between any of us and our direct manager. It looks different to us because we don't operate at their level. Hell, I think most of us want it to be different. The truth is they are still just people.

One other thing to consider - guys at this level don't get to where they are by playing scared. They don't worry about whether their opinion lines up with that of their boss. They have the courage of their convictions and, at the end of the day, they will go that. They absolutely have to believe in themselves. We are used to guys who were hired because precisely because they lacked a backbone. My impression of Peters is that he very much has a spine and my impression of Harris is that he wouldn't have hired Peters if he didn't believe Adam would standup for what he believes in. Even to Harris.

Boone - you ask what happens if our personnel guys are hung up on 2 guys and can't decide which one to take. Great question. If our best and brightest can't decide which one is the right one, what difference does it make if Harris has an opinion? The decision still has to be made one way or the other and I've seen a lot crazier ways to break the tie.
 
Also, still not digging the mock drafts. Too many have us picking Daniels who with his frame and accuracy issues worries me. Worse than that though (and this gives me a sense of peace because it makes me think the mocks are bull) in 4/5 of the multiround mocks I saw, Washington didn't pick a lineman in rounds one, two, or three.

Maybe the BPA falls that way, but when one unit is in that shape you have to weight the scales a bit. A B+ guard is going to be worth more than an A cornerback for instance though that wouldn't be true for most teams or this one in any other year.
 
burgold said:
I'm looking at Harris' past history. If he was a heavy handed owner or a meddler, we'd known it. He has been an NBA and NHL owner for years. It just doesn't wash for me that he'd be patient and stand back for every other team he owns while his personality would totally change for this one. It's possible, but I just don't buy it. Josh Harris bought the 76ers in 2011. That's eleven years of data as to how he acts in good times and bad as an owner. In addition, we've got to see how he acts as a first year owner in two (it might be three) major sports leagues.
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Again - this isn’t the argument, at least not for some of us. I don’t think he is Snyder, ‘heavy handed’, or a ‘meddler’. But he has inserted himself into a process that will end with drafting a young QB. Being involved in a process almost certainly influences the outcome of a process, whether by intention or not.

I don’t want Josh Harris influencing football-related decisions.
 
My opinion on this is that I think we need to give Harris room to learn the process and make mistakes. We can say we know he’s different than Snyder, but then we look at his actions and remember all the pain we have gone through as fans the last 25 years and have a reaction of “this is the same thing”. Whether him being in the room or part of the decisions is right or not, he made the decision he needs to be there to learn that. Almost all of us learn by making mistakes. We have to give Harris the same chance to make mistakes and learn. If he goes in and realizes his input or part of the process messed things up, then he will hopefully get out of it the next time. If he doesn’t, then yes that will be a huge problem. But he’s going to make mistakes as the owner and time will tell if being a part of this draft process is a mistake.
 
Boone said:
Again - this isn’t the argument, at least not for some of us. I don’t think he is Snyder, ‘heavy handed’, or a ‘meddler’. But he has inserted himself into a process that will end with drafting a young QB. Being involved in a process almost certainly influences the outcome of a process, whether by intention or not.

I don’t want Josh Harris influencing football-related decisions.
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I don't think I get the nuance, Boone. If you don't think he's a meddler or heavy handed then how are you worried about him "influencing?" If you don't think Harris pressures his people and interferes in their processes then what negative influence is he imposing?
 
Neophyte said:
If this were a meeting one of us was running you are correct. But it isn't.

Let me frame this a little differently. I work for a Fortune 100 (or so) company. I am a single contributor who is roughly 8 levels removed from the CEO. If I'm running a meeting and the CEO sits in, the temperature totally changes. He and I have never spoken. We have no relationship. There would be stress and anxiety on my part.

However, if the CEO decides to sit in on a meeting with the Chief Revenue Officer, nothing changes. The CRO and CEO talk regularly. Maybe even daily. They have a relationship. Odds are good everyone in the CRO's meeting knows the CEO and has something of a relationship with him. This meeting has a totally different tone and should be very much collaborative.

The relationship between Adam and Josh isn't really much different than the relationship between any of us and our direct manager. It looks different to us because we don't operate at their level. Hell, I think most of us want it to be different. The truth is they are still just people.

One other thing to consider - guys at this level don't get to where they are by playing scared. They don't worry about whether their opinion lines up with that of their boss. They have the courage of their convictions and, at the end of the day, they will go that. They absolutely have to believe in themselves. We are used to guys who were hired because precisely because they lacked a backbone. My impression of Peters is that he very much has a spine and my impression of Harris is that he wouldn't have hired Peters if he didn't believe Adam would standup for what he believes in. Even to Harris.

Boone - you ask what happens if our personnel guys are hung up on 2 guys and can't decide which one to take. Great question. If our best and brightest can't decide which one is the right one, what difference does it make if Harris has an opinion? The decision still has to be made one way or the other and I've seen a lot crazier ways to break the tie.
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You make some very valid points, as usual.

My sole retort would be that we don’t yet know for a fact exactly what Adam Peters will be as a GM and as the final decision maker at the position. His previous experience is as a highly respected assistant decision maker and there is a vast gulf between the two. I, for one, hope that he indeed proves to have courage in his convictions and is confident and capable enough to pound the table in that regard. I think that he does and that he will but the proof will be, as they say, in the pudding.
 
Old guy here reporting in- not a fan of this. Get off my lawn.

 
JJ has a sense of humor. I dig it.

 
I think the odds of a trade down are gaining momentum.

This draft has depth at quarterback, offensive tackle and wide receiver and those are exactly the positions where we need the most help.

If the club manages the handling of the trades this team could come out of the draft with 3-4 starters and another 2-3 depth players that can contribute.

Looks a lot like 1981 and 1986 when the Redskins and then the 49ers drafted a number of core of their SB teams in one year.
 
Go routes

Milton has one hell of an arm . 70 yards in the air
Nix not bad on the go route
McCarthy not as good as Nix again
 
Deep out McCarthy did the best
Nix was okay
Milton was ok as well

All these three I think helped themselves today but i think Nix and McCarthy will be early to mid 1st picks and Milton will be a 2nd round pick we could get with one of our two early 2nds.
I think Milton helped himself a lot today
If we want to trade back I think Miton would be a good developmental QB to sit for a season and learn
 
This is why this is so much fun!

I just came to speak about how impressed I was with JJ McCarthy. Overall so far, to my eye he has been the best of the group. Pinpoint accuracy and great velocity on every throw except the deep go routes. (Where I think he simply overthrew the receivers, possibly in an attempt to show off his arm strength).

Coupled with the fact that he just turned 21 in January vs Nix who turned 24 in February, I put him at the top of the class in his group. Penix goes with the next group.
 
I am not personally sold on Daniels or Maye for numerous reasons. McCarthy is making me take notice also for numerous reasons. It’s going to be an interesting almost 2 months.
 
After much (probably too much tbh) research using a plethora of available video breakdowns I have finished my totally amateur rankings of the QBs available in the upcoming draft. I have left out Caleb Williams because that just ain’t happening folks.

I got a list, here’s the order of my list that it’s in…

1. Jayden Daniels- I have what I think are legitimate concerns about his build and his short-route accuracy but his talent is undeniable. He has by far the highest ceiling of the group and probably the highest floor, as well. With proper coaching he reaches an altitude the others can only dream about. He will turn 24 in December.

2. J.J. McCarthy- He possesses all the arm talent you could want. Though he is less accurate on short to medium throws to his left than to his right, he is otherwise very accurate with very good ball-placement and throws with high velocity. His intangibles are also very desirable: highly intelligent, leader, competitor, winner. (He the youngest of the group having just turned 21 this past January.)

3-5. (In alphabetical order. Also called- pick your poison.)

Drake Maye- A lot to like before you watch game film and not simply highlight videos (though even those aren’t all that impressive). Watching game film breakdowns on Maye is rough, with a capital R. Outside of great size, a strong arm, and better than average athleticism…I was left with far more questions than answers. His up & down performance within an average (at best) conference has me seriously questioning just how he came to be considered a Top 3 QB prospect. Frankly I see more that I like from Sam Howell than I do Drake Maye. (He turns 22 in August.)

Bo Nix- It’s hard to evaluate Nix for me. Great numbers but from within a defense is optional conference. Again, I don’t see him bringing any more to the table than Sam Howell other than 2 additional inches. (He turned 24 a week ago.)

Michael Penix Jr.- I admittedly spent almost zero time on him. I have a bias against thrice-broken players entering the profession. So sue me. (He will turn 24 in May.)

If you feel the need to throw something at me for my evaluation…please make it tomatoes. I could make something useful out of them.
 
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I don’t understand all of the comments about the players ages.

Quarterback is a position with longevity in the NFL if the player is successful.

Unlike wide receiver or corner where careers are shorter the fact Nix or Penix will be 24 to me is meaningless.

In fact it may be an asset if these players are that much more mature in coming to the NFL than a 21 year old.
 
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