QB or not QB

[Boone]

Yeah, I’ve previously predicted he may be a huge bust for some of the same reasons you all are focusing on. But when folks closest to a guy give another viewpoint that discounts a lot of the supposed negatives, it should make most of us question whether we’ve got it right or not.

 

[Bulldog]

Personally, I think Williams goes to the Bears at #1, so a lot of this is going to be 'above' our pay grade

To me realistically we are looking at Maye vs. Daniels OR a trade down to later in Round 1.

 

[Enforcer]

Another good thing about having Kingsbury in the fold -- he of all people, will know if there are any attitude issues with Caleb.

 

[tshile]

I think us as fans have a lot less experience analyzing, but we hit almost as regularly as they do.

I generally agree with what you’re saying but want to touch on this.

This is because us as fans have the luxury of not having to actually make decisions. We’re not inundated with inside information, charged with making decisions that have to fit within the macro level decision making model,

To me it’s akin to political polls 6 months out from an election. The people being polled have the luxury of saying whatever they want - without having to commit to it. Then one day they step in the booth and have to pull the level and now there’s finality to what they think.

Or when people give strong, categorical opinions on foreign policy. It’s really easy to declare we need to put troops somewhere when you have NO responsibility for it - a lot harder when people dying is tied directly to your decision.

Fans have the luxury of having a sliver of information, making strong proclamations, and waiting for a future date to declare they were right. Or to ignore it and not bring it up if they were wrong. And to have absolutely no accountability or responsibility for any of it.

For instance - where’s the accountability for all the people that declare hiring Shanahan as OC (here) to be nothing more than a nepotism hire, and that he was a terrible OC?

Shit I don’t even know what I said about it at the time.

Such is the luxury of having no responsibility.

 

[Boone]

And there’s the fact that at least with our franchise, being right as often or more than the leadership is not exactly a badge of honor. It’s a new day. (or at least we hope to God it is) now.

 

[Primus Porcus]

To be fair though Manziel had drug problems which helped to derail his career. And his talent is nowhere near the level of Williams, projecting to the next level.

less about forecasting the career trajectory, and more about the fact that concerns are color blind.

 

[tshile]

Well, I know what I'm saying will translate to more than tunnel vision or emotional. You see it with a lot of players just taking rest games or not being team players. Selfishness is a big red flag

Oh I know.

This is something I’m bad about with forums - I bounce between commenting on a specific posters view, and what I see in the general public, and I don’t do a good job of differentiating between the two.

I know nothing about your knowledge on this or time spent on it. I, personally, don’t even watch college football. So I’m not trying to be critical of your specific views. Sorry if it came off that I was

 

[Primus Porcus]

I generally agree with what you’re saying but want to touch on this.

This is because us as fans have the luxury of not having to actually make decisions. We’re not inundated with inside information, charged with making decisions that have to fit within the macro level decision making model,

To me it’s akin to political polls 6 months out from an election. The people being polled have the luxury of saying whatever they want - without having to commit to it. Then one day they step in the booth and have to pull the level and now there’s finality to what they think.

Or when people give strong, categorical opinions on foreign policy. It’s really easy to declare we need to put troops somewhere when you have NO responsibility for it - a lot harder when people dying is tied directly to your decision.

Fans have the luxury of having a sliver of information, making strong proclamations, and waiting for a future date to declare they were right. Or to ignore it and not bring it up if they were wrong. And to have absolutely no accountability or responsibility for any of it.

For instance - where’s the accountability for all the people that declare hiring Shanahan as OC (here) to be nothing more than a nepotism hire, and that he was a terrible OC?

Shit I don’t even know what I said about it at the time.

Such is the luxury of having no responsibility.

yeah i edited it, because in reality we don't actually hit more than they do.

But there are plenty of instances that fans look at a situation and see red flags.

Ultimately if Peters and co. decide through the vast knowledge they have well beyond anything anybody on this board has, that the Red Flags we're seeing aren't going to get in the way of Caleb Williams being the franchise QB that others have stated he is, I will 100% support their decision, if for no other reason than hte fact that they are not Dan Snyder, becuase you better believe a trade up to 1 would have been right out of the Dan Snyder playbook, and it would have likely cost us the future. This goes beyond just Williams by the way. This coaching staff, and front office structure may be much better suited to develop him, where regardless of the red flags, it's likely previous regimes simply would not have been able to.

Ultimately, Red Flags are not deal breakers, they just create data points in the Risk vs Reward conversation.

 

[Chris]

If my son was a consensus very high pick in the upcoming NFL draft AND his college team was scheduled to play in one of the 513 meaningless bowl games…I would 100/100 advise him to sit it out.

Now, if his team was in the CFB Championship Series? Completely different story.

 

[MikefromOH]

Meaningless to whom? Him?

What about the kids on the team who may never get back to a bowl game and have no chance of making the NFL? Is it meaningless to them or do they just not matter because it's all about one person?

 

[Primus Porcus]

Yeah i dont know about the Bowls thing. I flop back and forth on it, as some of it's extrememly diluted, and I can understand the 'business decision' behind it in the current climate of college football, but there is something about a guy that doesn't have the competitive fire to finish it out.

That all said, the majority of premium players don't follow that though process, and a lot of them have gone on to have the mentality to make it in the NFL so what do I know?

 

[Chris]

Meaningless to whom? Him?

What about the kids on the team who may never get back to a bowl game and have no chance of making the NFL? Is it meaningless to them or do they just not matter because it's all about one person?

They still get to go.

 

[MikefromOH]

They still get to go.

And play without the best player on the team and one who gives them the best chance of winning.

 

[tshile]

Meaningless to whom? Him?

What about the kids on the team who may never get back to a bowl game and have no chance of making the NFL? Is it meaningless to them or do they just not matter because it's all about one person?

Yes. It’s meaningless to him.

For the fans and other players, my suggestion is to direct your ire at the NCAA, schools, and bowl sponsors as they’re the ones that made it meaningless and are the problem.

Demanding an individual care about the greater good when the people actually charged for caring about the greater good, don’t, and actively show they also don’t care about the individual, is misdirected outrage to me.

I don’t blame anyone for hating the situation. Blaming the player doesn’t seem to make sense to me.

 

[MikefromOH]

Demanding that someone on a team care about more than himself isnt normal for people?

The NCAA has never cared about players. That has nothing to do with this. The leader of that team deciding he cares more about himself than the overall team is alarming.

What happens when he has a 4th and 22 to go and he decides the pressure is too much and just takes the sack?

 

[Chris]

CFB is a complete mess. Conferences selling themselves for $, players both auctioning themselves off to NIL highest bidders and using the transfer portal for a plethora of selfish reasons.

With that backdrop, I have a hard time being critical of an individual making a smart business decision.

 

[Bulldog]

Well, it's hard to tell a player who is the hope of his family and likely to be the primary provider for a number of them during his career to go ahead and play in a game and risk hurting himself and sidelining his chances in the NFL.

At the end of the day, family comes first.

 

[MikefromOH]

Hopefully everyone remembers that when he does it in the NFL and in everything else in life, too.

Just saying. Where do you think the "me first" attitude will stop?

 

[Boone]

Ultimately, Red Flags are not deal breakers, they just create data points in the Risk vs Reward conversation.

The point I am trying to make is that a ‘red flag’ is not always a data point - it’s often a ‘perception’.

A college QB gets arrested for stealing or gets a DUI. Okay. That’s a fact. That’s a data point.

A college QB cries after a loss, or sits out a bowl game, those aren’t red flags by definition. Perhaps the player is very emotional and that’s just his personality. Maybe he is advised to sit out by people he loves and trusts.

There is even stuff out there Williams camp disputes (like rumors he will refuse to pay in Chicago if drafted by then).

Our red flag may be the front offices ‘personality quirk’. Who knows…

 

[Primus Porcus]

The point I am trying to make is that a ‘red flag’ is not always a data point - it’s often a ‘perception’.

A college QB gets arrested for stealing or gets a DUI. Okay. That’s a fact. That’s a data point.

A college QB cries after a loss, or sits out a bowl game, those aren’t red flags by definition. Perhaps the player is very emotional and that’s just his personality. Maybe he is advised to sit out by people he loves and trusts.

There is even stuff out there Williams camp disputes (like rumors he will refuse to pay in Chicago if drafted by then).

Our red flag may be the front offices ‘personality quirk’. Who knows…

Fair, red flags differ from person to person, and there is a 0% chance we will all ever agree on what is and isn’t a red flag across the board