PFT: Redskins, Cowboys could go “nuclear” over cap mess

I think Goodell is smart enough to know, at this point, anything heavy-handed directed at the Redskins is going to look like it's retaliation for being challenged. That's a good thing.

Well, he can't be all that smart, if he thought he could get away with such corrupt, illegal practice, and implementing such a harsh penalty, against TWO of the owners who are most likely to challenge and win a case against him :laugh:
 
Arrogance and power has made a lot of smart men do stupid things Fear. And keep in mind, the Skins and Cowboys may be 100% right, but ultimately end up on the losing end despite it.
 
Arrogance and power has made a lot of smart men do stupid things Fear. And keep in mind, the Skins and Cowboys may be 100% right, but ultimately end up on the losing end despite it.

If they make a dope deal in the backrooms with the good ol' boys, you could be right. If it goes to court, the NFL loses.

And like I said, there's always the revenue thing to threaten others with as well. Jerrah and the danny don't depend exclusively on TV deals or merchandising deals and such like some ownersdo. Some of the smaller teams are running so close to the edge that they need the few additional bucks that a new TV deal or advertising deal can provide just to stay as owners.

Wouldn't want to see the Golden Goose dry up, would they? :evil:
 
The important thing that happened today was centered on JJ. Claming up is the best way for these owners to approach business. Both have a team of lawyers. Let's see what comes of it. Stay tuned.
 
Did the Giants really get an extra first round pick? From what I'm reading, they are getting the 36th pick in the 2012 draft as compensation. I thought those picks couldn't be higher than 3rd round picks.

Are Compensatory Picks decided on by the Competition Committee?

No matter.....I really don't think I could hate Mara much more than I do right now. I'm also ticked at the other owners. They could have voted to make this thing go away TODAY by voting to reinstate our cap. Instead, they decided to play greedy little bastages and keep that cap gift from Mara. They figure the longer this thing lasts, the less likely they would be to have to give it back and besides, if it blows up Goodell and Mara will take the fall, not them. IDIOTS!!!
 
Did the Giants really get an extra first round pick? From what I'm reading, they are getting the 36th pick in the 2012 draft as compensation. I thought those picks couldn't be higher than 3rd round picks.

Are Compensatory Picks decided on by the Competition Committee?

No matter.....I really don't think I could hate Mara much more than I do right now. I'm also ticked at the other owners. They could have voted to make this thing go away TODAY by voting to reinstate our cap. Instead, they decided to play greedy little bastages and keep that cap gift from Mara. They figure the longer this thing lasts, the less likely they would be to have to give it back and besides, if it blows up Goodell and Mara will take the fall, not them. IDIOTS!!!

Yeah, compensatory picks can't be higher than the 3rd round, I don't think. Sure its not the 36th pick in the third round?
 
Yeah, compensatory picks can't be higher than the 3rd round, I don't think. Sure its not the 36th pick in the third round?

Can't find the original link I saw it at so it may have been removed or changed to a different name. According to NFL.com it's the 36th pick in the 4th round. I feel "slightly better" about that now.

Not that I was really expecting one but I figured if Mara's committee has anything to do with these picks, it's pretty much guaranteed we wouldn't get one, regardless of the formula used.
 
It's the 36th pick in the fourth round--a typo in Graziano's (generally excellent) NFC East Blog (which correctly notes later in the sentence that it's the 131st overall pick).

http://espn.go.com/blog/nfceast/post/_/id/37455/cowboys-giants-each-pick-up-a-pick

Also, fwiw, you can get a compensatory pick for being bad--if not enough compensatory picks are awarded under the secret formula, then the league gives out the left-over picks at the end of the 7th round to the clubs with the worst records until the allotted picks are gone. I believe that's how we got the right to Nield at the end of the draft last year.
 
Also, fwiw, you can get a compensatory pick for being bad--if not enough compensatory picks are awarded under the secret formula, then the league gives out the left-over picks at the end of the 7th round to the clubs with the worst records until the allotted picks are gone. I believe that's how we got the right to Nield at the end of the draft last year.

Thanks man! Glad I'm not TOTALLY losing my mind. The Graz just fat-fingered it.

So......we didn't suck bad enough this year to get one? I blame Mara ;)
 
NFL acknowledges salary cap challenge by Redskins, Cowboys

A little blurb by Mark Maske

Nothing spectacular, just some fill in.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...skins-cowboys/2012/03/26/gIQABT7fcS_blog.html

....According to one person familiar with the situation, Cowboys owner Jerry Jones and Redskins General Manager Bruce Allen addressed representatives of the other 30 NFL teams during one of Monday’s meetings.........Representatives of the other teams discussed the case without members of the Redskins and Cowboys delegations in the room, the person said.
 
And yet they couldn't vote to refund the Skins and Boys the $46 mil and take the easy way out and allow the mess to blow over. Either they don't want to expose their own collusion or they're all greedy bastages that just want that extra $1.8 mil of cap room.

This ticks me off more and more every time I read it. :mad:
 
And a few updated thoughts about the arbitration in light of the CBA. (Re-link to my cba post on ES from last week: http://www.extremeskins.com/showthr...ncapped-year&p=8899538&viewfull=1#post8899538; these thoughts also expressed later in that thread.)

1) Though we filed under Article 15, as I thought wise, it appears we didn't try to go the sneaky route I was suggesting under Article 15 to shift the fairly heavy burden of proof (clear preponderance of the evidence) away from us (i.e., we didn't submit a contract to the league that would have put us over our "downward adjusted" cap, get that contract disapproved by the NFL, and then contest that disapproval before the System Arbitrator.) My argument might not have flown, and we may well not need to shift the burden of proof in order to win, but I would have liked for us to give it a shot.

2) As to timing, everyone is saying it's completely up in the air. In fact, Article 15, Section 5 provides for an "expedited" proceeding, and that the proceeding may be "commenced" with 3 days' written notice (not clear what "commenced" entails): "Procedures: All matters in enforcement proceedings before the System Arbitrator shall be heard and determined in an expedited manner. An enforcement proceeding may be commenced upon 72 hours written notice (or upon shorter notice if ordered by the System Arbitrator) served upon the party against whom the enforcement proceeding is brought and filed with the System Arbitrator."

3) It's unclear the extent to which our claim focuses on a) the substance of the "adjusted" cap, i.e., the arbitrariness/wrongfulness of taking away cap space in the absence of any conduct running afoul of any CBA, and/or b) the improper process (under the NFL Constitution and Bylaws) by which some sub-set of the Competition Committee decided upon this adjustment, without the input or ratification of the owners as a whole, or, apparently, of the full membership of the Committee (at least not including Jones).

4) A subtle but novel and potentially important point. As to the substance claim, no one else seems to be pointing to the fact that the new CBA (in a very difficult to parse provision, Article 11, Section 5(b)(i)) would seem to allow us to have wiped clean our entire future cap hit in 2010 by cutting players such as Haynesworth prior to the 2011 league year starting on March 11, 2011. Thus, it's extremely hard to see how "competitive balance" is thrown out of whack by our wiping clean our future cap hit in 2010 by renegotiating the contracts (rather than terminating them), because the only difference is that we had Haynesworth (nominally) on the team between March and July, 2011.

Same idea, stated a bit differently: Given that the new CBA expressly permits teams to have wiped clean cap hits looming for 2011 and beyond by accelerating them into the uncapped "loophole" of the 2010 league year by cutting a player, it's extremely hard to see how competitive balance is fundamentally undermined when teams evade the "spirit" of some unidentified CBA by wiping clean looming cap hits in the loophole year of 2010 through renegotiating a player's contract to accelerate the cap hit into 2010.

This goes to the argument surfaced (but not endorsed) by PCinOz: that what's different about what the Skins and Cowboys did is to wipe clean cap hits already on the books, whereas what other teams did was to act in 2010 to do whatever they wanted in 2010 to help them in the future--the first throwing off competitive balance (by allowing a get out of (cap) jail free card for already existing contracts and corresponding cap obligations incurred under the prior CBA), the second not altering competitive balance in any sanctionable way (because the conduct occurred when no laws (and no collusion) was in place). First, that distinction is entirely arbitrary as to what does or does not violate competitive balance, as many have pointed out. My point here, though, is that the new CBA expressly allows a get out of (cap) jail free card for 2010 behavior that wipes clean cap hits looming into the future for already existing contracts (and corresponding cap obligations) incurred under the prior CBA.
 
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So does this give the NFL 72 hours to possibly rescind the penalty before the arbitration starts, should they so choose?

I'm wondering if the owners won't meet on this again BEFORE the meetings conclude on Wednesday. It would certainly be in their best interest.
 
So does this give the NFL 72 hours to possibly rescind the penalty before the arbitration starts, should they so choose?

I'm wondering if the owners won't meet on this again BEFORE the meetings conclude on Wednesday. It would certainly be in their best interest.

Interesting possibility. It seems like they might do as you suggest and come to their senses. They can chalk it up to an incorrect procedure, scapegoat Mara as necessary, and avoid the arbitration process through which the NFLPA would be able to participate in the discovery process and gather solid evidence proving NFL collusion which the NFLPA could at the very least use to turn the leverage back in its favor after being railroaded on the salary cap this year.

Assuming this issue does goes to arbitration, I wonder if the NFL will find a way for the testimony etc. not to be transcribed.

Did anyone watch NFL Network's extended coverage of Goodell's press conference today (vs. just seeing the key highlights)? He was sweating like a pig, declined to comment on this cap issue saying something like "that's an owner's issue" and he made some other comment that I can't exactly recall now citing the fact that the NFL has 32 very competitive teams (and almost implying a potential lack of impartiality by the owners in punishing other owners - it made me think he was realizing he was wrong to go along with Mara on this.) Did anyone else catch that comment? Any one have a link to the whole presser or a transcript?

It doesn't seem like a good sign for the NLF if even Goodell is keeping his self righteous mouth closed on this cap issue.

John Mara doth protest too much...
 
It may well be that the Skins filed now to give the other owners time to rethink what they're doing before the arbitration starts, while they all are gathered together. As a practical matter, I'd think there's more than 72 hours for the NFL to act, because the arbitration, I'd think, is very unlikely to end anywhere near that soon, so presumably a settlement could happen down the road a bit.
 
Did anyone watch NFL Network's extended coverage of Goodell's press conference today (vs. just seeing the key highlights)? He was sweating like a pig, declined to comment on this cap issue saying something like "that's an owner's issue" and he made some other comment that I can't exactly recall now citing the fact that the NFL has 32 very competitive teams (and almost implying a potential lack of impartiality by the owners in punishing other owners - it made me think he was realizing he was wrong to go along with Mara on this.) Did anyone else catch that comment? Any one have a link to the whole presser or a transcript?

Ok, I found a link to an extended version of the presser: http://www.dallascowboys.com/multimedia/multimedia_center.cfm?id=516F0F3F-B0F0-DB2D-8BFE9D7950937B80

Right around the 20 min mark:
Reporter: “Was there an ownership committee that advised you on the Saints' matter? If there are several current Saints defenders who face suspension, will you stagger those during the league year?”

Commissioner: “Well, there is no ownership committee – that is not something that we have in existence. I’m also very aware of the competitive aspects of that. As commissioner, I have to seek input, but I also have to be very careful of the fact that this league is very competitive. So I take that into account.”
 
"Very competetive"? More like cutthroat. I would think all of the owners in the Saints division, if not the entire NFC, would like to see ALL of their Defensive players suspended for a lengthy amount of time.

Looks like ol' Rog is feeling the heat. Good! ;)
 
All this carry on over cap gate and restructuring contracts got me thinking about what actually constitutes “going against the spirit” of the rules and “gaining an unfair competitive advantage” actually means.

I do not believe what we did was wrong, it certainly was not against any rules are they written or not. Why warn teams? I mean seriously if you think the contracts are wrong then do not verify them do not be lily livered and say “not sure about this do you want to reconsider them” either be a man and say “force us to pass these and we will make you pay in two years time or let it go. This “maybes aye, maybes no” double talk, is what we call over here, “talking verbal diorea”.

So any way we get punished for being smart and spending our money so that in two years we have a nice high amount of cap space. That is not cheating it is having a plan that looks beyond one season. But what really irks me is this. Tampa hardly spent anything that season and as a result this off season they had over $60 million in cap space.

So the question is this.

Does not spending any money and thereby creating an unfair advantage in the future not also break the “spirit of the law”?

Tampa and other teams failed to spend hardly anything that off-season creating for them large amounts of cap space they could exploit this off-season. So tell me which is worse?
 
The inequities of punishment across the board is what bothers most.
Most if not all teams did "something" to take advantage of the capless year.
The Skins and Dallas "flaunted" what they did by making big number changes.

I suspect that the Skins have been in the crosshairs for years when it comes to paying players, setting markets and playing the cap game. It was time for them to pay for their past transgressions.

Unfortunately, when it looked like the Skins would get off scott free from pending cap hell the owners had to do something. They played a game that shouldn't have been played.

The ol' haves vs the have-nots comes into play, Skins could payout cash to satisfy the front loaded contracts wheareas some teams could not. That's the crux of the argument, the sense of unfair play that the NFL is whining about to justify the penalties.
 

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