• Welcome to the New BGO! We know you will have questions as you become familiar with the new software. Please take a moment to read our New BGO User Guide which will give you a great start. If you find potential glitches, please report those in the Possible New Site Glitches and Issues thread. If you have questions, post them in the New Site Questions? thread.
  • The 2020 Season will be the last for our little community. Following the final WFT game of the 2020 season, the site will close it's doors. We wanted to give you a little advance notice so that you could retrieve any photos, content, or other material from the site before it became unavailable, so that you could exchange contact info with anyone you may desire, and ensure that folks would forgo any site donations going forward. We have had a blast being your favorite Redskins and WFT watering hole for the past decade. We had a great run and each of you were a part of it. Thanks to all of you for your amazing contributions and camaraderie. You made this a special place.

Here go all the leftists............

Happy hour starts in 5 minutes

Goaldeje

The Legend
Joined
Feb 1, 2010
Messages
18,382
Reaction score
46
Points
328
Location
Waynesboro, VA

James Madison

I think "doctor's note" is a far cry from "psychiatric evaluation," but that's just me. I don't necessarily agree with the measure either way, either - its only one potential solution.

And just FYI - "hate," "reactionary" and "bull****" are all pretty emotional terms. You're fighting fire with fire, my friend.
That's why I hate those types of arguments, Lanky. When reactionary, emotional arguments are put into play, I tend to react in kind, as do most people I would guess. Then, instead of a rational discussion about the ramifications of what a psychotic nut job did, we end up discussing gun laws, which is silly at best.
Posted via BGO Mobile Device
 

Lanky Livingston

The Commissioner
Joined
Jul 15, 2009
Messages
27,017
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Location
Houston, TX

Florida Atlantic

still, it shows bias and a lack of being able to report just the facts. once it becomes "your opinion" it starts to lose value. (your opinion not meaning you specifically)

if they simply said tea party i would have kept reading...but honestly I would have most likely ended up were goaldeje is.
Agreed, but unfortunately its very hard to find quality pieces these days without such terms in them.
 

Goaldeje

The Legend
Joined
Feb 1, 2010
Messages
18,382
Reaction score
46
Points
328
Location
Waynesboro, VA

James Madison

I think "doctor's note" is a far cry from "psychiatric evaluation," but that's just me. I don't necessarily agree with the measure either way, either - its only one potential solution.

And just FYI - "hate," "reactionary" and "bull****" are all pretty emotional terms. You're fighting fire with fire, my friend.
And by the by, a note from the doctor who is unqualified to (in most cases) make any sort of judgment at all about a person's mental health would make things oh so much worse than they are now. Completely ridiculous solution, and offensive to mental health professionals, I am sure.

Not trying to pile on LL, I know you didn't write this. Just a bad idea, though.
Posted via BGO Mobile Device
 

Lanky Livingston

The Commissioner
Joined
Jul 15, 2009
Messages
27,017
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Location
Houston, TX

Florida Atlantic

That's why I hate those types of arguments, Lanky. When reactionary, emotional arguments are put into play, I tend to react in kind, as do most people I would guess. Then, instead of a rational discussion about the ramifications of what a psychotic nut job did, we end up discussing gun laws, which is silly at best.
Posted via BGO Mobile Device
Silly? How is it silly? To me, its the obvious next step in the discussion. You can argue that this guy could have just gone on the black market to buy a gun, or stolen one from a gun store/neighbor/etc. - but both of those options increase his chance of being caught before the crime. Also, not sure about the rest of you, but I wouldn't have the first idea about where to go to get an illegal weapon.

And like I said, I'm not anti-gun. Many of my good friends are armed to the teeth, so to speak, and I'm fine with that. I also cannot find one single thing wrong with more restrictions on purchasing firearms.
 

Goaldeje

The Legend
Joined
Feb 1, 2010
Messages
18,382
Reaction score
46
Points
328
Location
Waynesboro, VA

James Madison

See my post above. Relying on general practioners to diagnose mental health is not a solution.
Posted via BGO Mobile Device
 

Elephant

The Commissioner
Joe Gibbs Club Member
Joined
Aug 1, 2009
Messages
24,818
Reaction score
455
Points
1,113

Florida State

To be fair, I was just throwing it out there, not necessarily trying to disprove any theories (however "3 shootings in MD" is not exactly an earth-shattering counter-argument). I'm not necessarily anti-gun, either, just thinking that this particular argument is ineffective.

What do you mean by "this type of crime?" Isn't that exactly the type of crime people are referring to? A random gunman opening up on a specific target or a crowd? I hear all the time, "if only there had been a citizen with a gun at location x during crime y, that guy would never have shot all those people." Well, AZ is the perfect scenario for more people to have guns, and that exactly didn't happen. Its the perfect argument for stricter guns laws, actually - which ironically you supported with your "3 shootings in a strict gun-law state" argument. :)

3 shootings in a month that stopped criminal acts is no support for law abiding citizens to own and carry guns? I'd say it is a great example of why the right to own a fire arm is a pivotal part of this nation. Hell Lanky, even the Congresswoman who was shot supported it. She was opposed to Washington DC's attempt to circumvent the 2nd Ammendment.

By this type of crime, I am referring to the lone "killer" who is beyond reasoning who walks into a crowd and shoots. No one carrying a gun could have stopped this unless they were there in that split second to stop them, proximity as Sarge suggested. Now, once the gunshots went off, had there been someone with a gun in relative proximity, maybe a life or two could have been saved, maybe not. But I will tell you this, had I been close enough to get a shot off, he would have gone down.

Now, I admire you for standing up to us in many respects Jamie. Sometimes I can imagine it is frustrating being on a board where the most outspoken lean to the Right, but that does not excuse you from making statements that are fundamentally wrong. Guns do not kill people Jamie! People kill people! Just like a car doesn't drive itself drunk into someone. Just like a knife doesn't slice someone's throat or a sword cuts off someone's head. Just like a baseball bat doesn't beat someone to death!
 

Elephant

The Commissioner
Joe Gibbs Club Member
Joined
Aug 1, 2009
Messages
24,818
Reaction score
455
Points
1,113

Florida State

Silly? How is it silly? To me, its the obvious next step in the discussion. You can argue that this guy could have just gone on the black market to buy a gun, or stolen one from a gun store/neighbor/etc. - but both of those options increase his chance of being caught before the crime. Also, not sure about the rest of you, but I wouldn't have the first idea about where to go to get an illegal weapon..

This is not true. Buying a gun on the "black market" is easier in many states than buying one from a licensed dealer.
 

Lanky Livingston

The Commissioner
Joined
Jul 15, 2009
Messages
27,017
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Location
Houston, TX

Florida Atlantic

3 shootings in a month that stopped criminal acts is no support for law abiding citizens to own and carry guns? I'd say it is a great example of why the right to own a fire arm is a pivotal part of this nation. Hell Lanky, even the Congresswoman who was shot supported it. She was opposed to Washington DC's attempt to circumvent the 2nd Ammendment.
You aren't reading my posts. I am not against people owning firearms, but I DO support stricter gun-control laws.

Since MD is a very strict gun-control state, the fact that you cited 3-cases of citizens gunning down criminals is a point for stricter gun-control laws, no? (EDIT: my point is that the guns in a strict state like MD, find their way into the hands of the good guys).

By this type of crime, I am referring to the lone "killer" who is beyond reasoning who walks into a crowd and shoots. No one carrying a gun could have stopped this unless they were there in that split second to stop them, proximity as Sarge suggested. Now, once the gunshots went off, had there been someone with a gun in relative proximity, maybe a life or two could have been saved, maybe not. But I will tell you this, had I been close enough to get a shot off, he would have gone down.
First: My point was that in a state with very lax gun-control laws - which AZ unarguably is - one could assume there would be more guns on the street. You don't even need a permit to conceal-carry there! Logically, there should be more people "in proximity" to stop this guy, which did not happen. So the only thing that stricter gun-control laws would have hurt were this guy's chances of purchasing a firearm.

Second: what types of crimes are preventable, in your opinion exactly?

Now, I admire you for standing up to us in many respects Jamie. Sometimes I can imagine it is frustrating being on a board where the most outspoken lean to the Right, but that does not excuse you from making statements that are fundamentally wrong. Guns do not kill people Jamie! People kill people! Just like a car doesn't drive itself drunk into someone. Just like a knife doesn't slice someone's throat or a sword cuts off someone's head. Just like a baseball bat doesn't beat someone to death!
As I said, you're not reading my posts. I'm not advocating a ban on guns, never have, never will. But, the "guns don't kill people, people kill people is the illogical argument. Yes, people kill people, but just like a car makes it so much easier for a drunk person to kill, a gun makes it much easier for a crazy person to kill people.

Is it really THAT much to ask for a longer wait-period to do more thorough background checks? Christ, it takes a couple months to get a passport in this country! I don't see people up in arms about the government infringing on their right to travel internationally!
 

Elephant

The Commissioner
Joe Gibbs Club Member
Joined
Aug 1, 2009
Messages
24,818
Reaction score
455
Points
1,113

Florida State

Jamie, I read your post and I assumed you were playing devil's advocate since you went on, in other posts, to state you weren't opposed to guns, just limitations on ownership. Not a big difference there in my view. It is a slippery slope to continue to limit gun ownership, especially in a knee jerk reaction after incidents like this.

I understood your point that suggests since MD has stricter laws it supports your point in light of the fact that the inverse gun laws in Arizona did nothing to stop these murders.

I got you, I was really not that convinced by your argument.

However, you did suggest guns were "partially" responsible for the events that occurred over the weekend. That is wrong. Loughner was responsible, solely!

And stop trying to bait me with your loaded questions. There are many crimes that are preventable when a law abiding citizen is carrying a gun. The three robberies I mentioned earlier that were thwarted when the criminals were shot by the victims are what I am talking about. Read my post.
 
Last edited:

fansince62

The All-Time Great
Joined
Jul 22, 2009
Messages
16,349
Reaction score
156
Points
343


So the solution is to have everyone who wants to purchase a gun undergo a psychiatric evaluation? Really? How in the hell is that even remotely close to the same ZIP code as being practical?

I hate reactionary, emotionalist political bull****.
Posted via BGO Mobile Device

bingo.

that said....I support a little more robustness in the process. I was basically able to buy a handgun after filling out two forms and standing by while 30 minutes of background checks were conducted. even I was surprised at how facile the process was.

the real Liberal/Left goal of ending legal gun sales or pushing gun ownership to astronomically costly levels (as they are trying now since they can't get around the 2nd amendment barrier) is laughable in that the world supply of guns is huge. just like with drugs the underground/black market would quickly move supply to demand. and we all know who that demand would largely trace to.

in the event...it is beyond pathetic and disgusting how Liberals/Leftists are exploiting this to accomplish their usual objectives:

- tar their political opposition
- mollify free speech with play pretend political correctness

it's amazing what's going on right now with Daily KOS, NOW, NYT, etc., etc. Don't they realize every time they make these plays for the popular emotional mind they signal their real intentions and nature? these people are scary. very, very scary.
 

fansince62

The All-Time Great
Joined
Jul 22, 2009
Messages
16,349
Reaction score
156
Points
343


didn't hear any of this vitriol from the Left after the Ft Hood massacre. why would that be?

and why is it a reflexive instinct for the Left to hold everyone but the individual accountable for their actions?
 
Last edited:

Henry

Coaching Staff
Staff member
Joined
Apr 12, 2009
Messages
9,840
Reaction score
159
Points
219
Location
Fairfax, VA


didn't hear any of this vitriol from the Left after the Ft Hood massacre. why would that be?
Because the right had the corner market on it? Remember how this wouldn't have happened if we allowed profiling and kept a closer eye on those Muslims? It wasn't the left pushing agendas in the wake of that tragedy. I find it hard to believe that anyone on this board is naive enough to truly think this sort of thing is unique to one side of the political spectrum.

Frankly, if we are REALLY against exploiting tragedy we need to stop the finger pointing when something like this happens, and that goes for everyone. Not just the people who point first.
 
Last edited:

fansince62

The All-Time Great
Joined
Jul 22, 2009
Messages
16,349
Reaction score
156
Points
343


Because the right had the corner market on it? Remember how this wouldn't have happened if we allowed profiling and kept a closer eye on those Muslims? It wasn't the left pushing agendas in the wake of that tragedy. I find it hard to believe that anyone on this board is naive enough to truly think this sort of thing is unique to one side of the political spectrum.

Frankly, if we are REALLY against exploiting tragedy we need to stop the finger pointing when something like this happens, and that goes for everyone. Not just the people who point first.
umm...Henry who said it was unique to one side? though in this instance it sure does appear to be so.

and, if you REALLY want to get the record straight, the issue inside the military at Ft Hood wasn't profiling...they knew he was dangerous. the issue was an officer corps stifled by political correctness into inaction.

and I disagree with your conclusion. what Kruggman et al have done is reprehensible and they need to be called out. it's beyond the pale that certain individuals were posting accusations immediately without any knowledge of the perpetrator, that others rushed to create false facebook sites, that the "critical" commentary was so obviously one sided, that this woman isn't even stable yet and others were rushing in to attack someone they feverishly hate. it's disgusting.

the core dilemma for the Left: to be holier than thou...well...one has to BE holier than thou!

you're right Henry that this should be a time for reflection. but that is not the path others chose to take - for political reasons. and that has a lot of folks shocked and angry. it is where this society is right now. the hard part is figuring out whether it is a purposefully engineered fracture (that has been underway for years).
 
Last edited:

Goaldeje

The Legend
Joined
Feb 1, 2010
Messages
18,382
Reaction score
46
Points
328
Location
Waynesboro, VA

James Madison

I think Henry would agree with your assessment that both sides do it, and that it is reprehensible. But the tone of a lot of posts seems to be that the left has taken it too far this time. This time it is over the line. When the Right exploits 9-11 for more defense spending and two wars, that is OK. Why? Because they waited longer than a day? Is that it? Political opportunism is fine as long as there is a waiting period at least as long ss it takes to get a hand gun?

I realize we have grown numb to it, but political opportunism in these situations is disgusting and both sides should be above it. That one side takes the opportunity to bash the other side for going "beyond the pale" is laughable to me, and to me indicates that side is angry they couldn't think of their own way to capitalize first.
Posted via BGO Mobile Device
 

fansince62

The All-Time Great
Joined
Jul 22, 2009
Messages
16,349
Reaction score
156
Points
343


I think Henry would agree with your assessment that both sides do it, and that it is reprehensible. But the tone of a lot of posts seems to be that the left has taken it too far this time. This time it is over the line. When the Right exploits 9-11 for more defense spending and two wars, that is OK. Why? Because they waited longer than a day? Is that it? Political opportunism is fine as long as there is a waiting period at least as long ss it takes to get a hand gun?

I realize we have grown numb to it, but political opportunism in these situations is disgusting and both sides should be above it. That one side takes the opportunity to bash the other side for going "beyond the pale" is laughable to me, and to me indicates that side is angry they couldn't think of their own way to capitalize first.
Posted via BGO Mobile Device
Goaldie......3000 people were killed on 9/11. was the United States supposed to sit on its hands and use quiet diplomacy to unsuccessfully root out terrorists its intentionally weakened intelligence agencies couldn't inhibit? are you suggesting that the acts of a crazed gunman and a group of terrorists supported by Nation States in the Middle East are equivalent? Are you suggesting that the current exploitative responses on the part of the Left and the Congressional/UN processes that were engaged in are equivalent in scope, depth and participation?

speaking of a hijack! nice try.

no...here's what's really going on: anyone who has paid attention since at least the run-up to the last Presidential election - who has followed the white hot verbal violence promulgated on Leftist web sites and blogs, anyone who has watched fundamentally corrupt processes like Obamacare legislation unfold, anyone who observed the near treasonous actions of Democrats in the two years leading up to the election while their friends were in the field fighting the wars you so object to, anyone who has observed hijacked elections in states like Minnesota, anyone who has paid attention to the backgrounds of all these Czars populating the administration, anyone who has observed the complete lack of culpability by Fanny/Freddie execs now littered throughout the administration, anyone who is appalled at the political language games played by our DHS head and in the immediate aftermath of the Nadel terrorism, anyone who has listened to explosive phraseology employed by Obama/Pelosi/Reid et al, anyone who rejects the pornographic and ineffective "security" at our airports, anyone who observed the incompetent and politically exploitative handling of the BP spill, anyone who has observed the incompetent safeguarding of State secrets, anyone who has observed a failing Middle East policy, anyone who has watched Iran methodically develop nuclear weapons, anyone who has watched this President alienate traditional allies, anyone who has seen films fantasizing about assassinations, anyone who has noted Congressional corruption whizzing by with hand slaps, anyone who has observed an administration violating bond holder rights wholesale, anyone who has watched State courts overturn the results of Democratic elections for political reasons, anyone who has noted the INCREASED polarization under this administration, anyone who has paid attention to the vulgarity of a media and political class that demonized millions of people as "Tea Baggers", anyone who had to survive "teachable moments" based on incorrect factual understandings, anyone who took the time to think about large groups of Left leaning "professionals" collaborating on Juornolist to manipulate political commentary, anyone who accorded even passing credibility to manipulative actions at East Anglia, anyone who saw how many of the benighted have been making a ton of money during all of this, anyone who has taken an interest in which names are most frequent on the White House visitors list, anyone who followed what amendments were actually proposed during the health care debates (as opposed to the media implied inaction), anyone who watched the sham health care summit, anyone who has watched the deficit explode, anyone who observed early on how the new President sent his wife to politically divide the military, anyone who has seen the exorbitant and profligate habits of the Obamas/Pelosis/Clintons on taxpayer dime, anyone who watched such as Henry Rollins' violent and obscene rants on Left leaning cable channels, anyone who has noted the politicization and corruption of the arts, anyone who has watched the totally excessive assaults on Palin, anyone who tracks who is actually writing many of these huge legislative packages, anyone who has been tracking the money flows from such as Soros, anyone mildly concerned about justice at the Justice Dept, anyone who is mildly interested in the murky connections between our President and ACORN/SEIU, anyone wondering why it is ok for senior administration officials not to pay taxes, anyone wondering what happened to transparency and performance based government service, anyone wary of a White House soliciting Americans to report other Americans on its web site, anyone who has a pulse......

might think things have gone somewhat awry since 2008....and that the time has long passed to clean house. I'm not a Tea Partier, but what do you think that movement is all about?
 
Last edited:

Goaldeje

The Legend
Joined
Feb 1, 2010
Messages
18,382
Reaction score
46
Points
328
Location
Waynesboro, VA

James Madison

Al, you're smarter than this, come on. Better too! Is it really your contention that the Right hasn't politicized 9-11? Come on.
Posted via BGO Mobile Device
 

fansince62

The All-Time Great
Joined
Jul 22, 2009
Messages
16,349
Reaction score
156
Points
343


Al, you're smarter than this, come on. Better too! Is it really your contention that the Right hasn't politicized 9-11? Come on.
Posted via BGO Mobile Device

1) all sides politicized the issue. that doesn't make the actions equivalent in scope.

2) 9/11 and murders in AZ are orthogonal
 
Last edited:

Goaldeje

The Legend
Joined
Feb 1, 2010
Messages
18,382
Reaction score
46
Points
328
Location
Waynesboro, VA

James Madison

Ok, so I'm going to ask again. What is it that makes this particular politicization so much more egregious?
Posted via BGO Mobile Device
 

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Total: 1, Members: 0, Guests: 1)

Private conversations
Help Users
    You haven't joined any rooms.
    Chat 0
    Top