Daron Payne & Free Agency

[Chris]

Those stats are great. The issue at one layer is we are already paying Jonathan Allen and he is a pro bowler. So, how much money are you going to tie up in the DT position when Sweat and other younger players come to negotiate new deals next year and down the line?

Also, as indicated before Allen brings a consistency and vocal leadership to the team which Payne does not.

Allen missed some games earlier in his career and so his stats are skewing a bit low with 69 games played vs. 81.

My gut feeling again though on that score of productivity is that Payne benefits greatly from the attention paid to Allen.

I am not saying they are the same because I think Payne is a good guy overall, but the comparison to me I recall is that of Bryant Young and Dana Stubblefield in San Francisco.

Young was a consistent pro bowler and two-way player. Stubblefield put up great statistics next to Young and his final year before free agency posted an unheard of 15 sacks playing inside at DT.

What did San Francisco do? The 49ers recognized that Young was in fact the anchor of the defense and Dana benefited from playing with him. Moreover, those contract year stats that Stubblefield put up were not likely to be duplicated in the future and to pay him based on THOSE stats would be unwise.

And that's the way I fee here.

Of course Stubblefield turned out to be Haynesworth Jr. and a bad guy in the locker room and off the field with issues, so the comparison is not as a human being but strictly as a football player.

Bryant Young is a HOF quality player, Stubblefield is a guy that had some nice seasons with SF and helped win a Super Bowl.

But he never lived up to the contract he was given by Washington.

Clearly there was a difference in games played. That’s why I included per game stats.

Of course Payne benefits by playing next to Allen. Does Allen not benefit by playing next to Payne?

There is no question by me on the leadership difference. JA all day.

 

[Neophyte]

I have spent a great deal of time looking for a site that will give me situational stats for Payne and Allen - specifically production with both on the field vs individual production when the other is taking a blow. I have not found it yet.

Again, small sample size, but Allen was out injured the last 6 quarters of the season and Payne flashed once, on a sweep during the Dallas game. No sacks. No QB hits/pressures. Make of that what you will.

I like the Stubblefield comparison. I'd rather someone else play Washington to our San Francisco with Payne.

 

[Chris]

I also tried to find stats for TFL but couldn’t find.

 

[Boone]

I think tagging and trading Payne is a no-brainer. I am concerned that he only played like a top tier talent in his contract year. He has pretty open that his priority is getting paid. Let some other team overpay the guy and get some draft capital in return.

 

[Bulldog]

Agreed. Not only do we have to consider DL salaries for Sweat and Young in the next year or two, but also the complete rebuild of the offensive line.

Whatever quarterback we bring in here we need to give him more than waiver wire quality players to work with.

Sam Cosmi and perhaps Chris Paul are the only younger draft picks that seem to have future upside and with Cosmi it may be inside rather than at RT.

Of the current players we have Turner (33), Lucas (31), Leno (31), Schweitzer (30), Norwell (31 next season) and outside of Leno these players all seem to have declined quite a bit from their prime years.

Chase is a good player but he seems to have hit the injury bug the past couple of years as Brandon Scherff had done in years previous.

As the saying goes, the greatest ability is availability.

When we are down to Nick Martin starting games at center we know we are in trouble.

 

[SkinsNumberOne]

I think tagging and trading Payne is a no-brainer. I am concerned that he only played like a top tier talent in his contract year. He has pretty open that his priority is getting paid. Let some other team overpay the guy and get some draft capital in return.

That "openness" is a major problem that this team has never been very aware of, in my opinion. Paying guys who are vocal about money sends a bad message. Paying leaders and making sure they are taken care of, WITHOUT needing to promote $$$$, and instead being guys who focus on their jobs, lead by example, do all of the rest. I think that needs to honestly be the focus. Never make players look bad in public either. There are some really simple rules that we have broken left, right, and center. It's like 5 rules, and somehow we have broken all of them with every regime up to this one in the last 25 years or so. I mean, it's very obvious what the common denominator is there.

Already, on the coaching side, we have seen a little of it. Making comments on WJackson (Did they? I vaguely remember that), making comments about Jamin Davis; they have made some mistakes. If this was a healthier organization structure (not coach-centric, where the head coach has clearly made mistakes and doesn't seem super open to criticism from what I can see, which is minimal I grant you, but I think when you surround yourself with buddies that is already an indication of sorts), I would have some hope that people talked and figured out that those were mistakes. When you are trying to claw back to respectability, you need the basic bases covered, and this team has struggled with that.

 

[Bulldog]

I think the fact Washington did not negotiate an extension with Payne this past offseason speaks volumes about where the team was in terms of making plans to commit future dollars.

Payne and his agent knew as well.

Washington appreciated Payne's talent and ability but weren't going to give him a top 5 or top 8 deal based on what he had produced in the first couple of years of his deal and especially not after having to ante up for Jonathan Allen and then Terry McLaurin.

So, the die was cast at that time.

You don't see many examples of guys go this long as first rounders without negotiations on a new deal and then up and stay put.

If they have a breakout season they head to free agency.

 

[SilentThreat]

So it looks like the Franchise tag for DT will be $18.9M this year... you better believe Payne's agent has that number now in bright neon lights in his office, and is texting it to Payne every chance he gets. THAT is the starting point for them in negotiations with us, because they have the Kirk Cousins leverage... they can always just keep saying no, forcing us to tag him