Daron Payne & Free Agency

[Neophyte]

I know we have been tossing Payne's situation around in other threads but in an effort to follow Boone's advice about starting new threads for individual topics, I thought I would pull everything together in one thread. With real numbers. And a poll.

Payne has had a career year w/ 11.5 Sacks, 20 QB Hits, 18 tackles for loss, and one Safety. His best year in the NFL - at least in terms of Sacks, TFLs, and QB Hits.

On March 15 he will be a Free Agent and he hasn't been shy about his desire to get paid.

Two years ago, Washington signed Jon Allen to a 4-year, $72 million deal that had a signing bonus of $30 million and a total guarantee of $35.6 million over the life of the contract. In 2023 he will count $21.5 million against the salary cap.

Payne and his representation are likely looking at this contract as the floor and are probably planning on something significantly bigger since this is 2 years later with a larger salary cap.

Other notable numbers involved:
Franchise Tag for DTs in 2023 - $18,954,000
Transition Tag for DTs in 2023 - $14,211,000

Payne's stats for this year are significantly better than Jon Allen's stats were the season before his big extension (2 Sacks, 3 TFL, 14 QB hits, 1 Safety).

Complicating things is the very real possibility that even if we know who the new owner will be, the sale of the team will not be finalized until the March league meetings which take place 2 weeks after FA starts.

What do you do?

 

[Chris]

What’s their plan?

(Russians don’t take a dump without a plan.)

Payne + Sweat, Young, Curl, QB?, etc. I want to hear how they are going to allocate their budget. (We won’t.)

I would love to retain Daron but they can’t pay them all, can they?

 

[burgold]

The ownership situation might really muck this up. Honestly, my first priority would be Kurl. Losing him would be like losing Ryan. It was very telling how badly the defense played while he was out. I realize we actually have a wealth at safety now with Forest and Butler, plus McCain, but Kurl is one of those guys who is so much more than his stats or attributes. Second priority would be Sweat though I'm pretty sure he'll get a contract that is outsized compared to his production. Last is Payne. Payne had a monster year. I worry about guys who are pretty good up to their contract year and then are great. I see his performance trending back down to good. I don't want to pay for great if I'm only going to get good. As far as Heinicke, I think Taylor's instincts are correct. I think he heads elsewhere. I wouldn't hate him back, but I'd also be wary of it.

 

[Canadian Hog]

In addition to some of the points that Burgold brought up in regards to Payne, I also want to mention that we spent a top 50 pick on Phil Mathis. Are you really taking a player at #47 with the sole intention of having him serve as a depth piece/rotational guy? Guys drafted at #47 (if you got it right) should legitimately be able to become a quality starter for you for several years. You would expect that being lined up alongside one of the best DTs in football in Jon Allen would only enhance the possibility of that materializing.

 

[MikefromOH]

We don't have any big contracts except mclaurin and Allen.

If we can dump Wentz we can make room
If we try to turn it in to a signing bonus to make up for yearly salary we can do it

You know who used to be a genius at cap situations? Scot. If only he was out there somewhere.

 

[Chris]

We don't have any big contracts except mclaurin and Allen.

If we can dump Wentz we can make room
If we try to turn it in to a signing bonus to make up for yearly salary we can do it

You know who used to be a genius at cap situations? Scot. If only he was out there somewhere.

Eric Shaffer used to be here, as well, until Snyder fired him.

Do you think house poor Dan Snyder will put out for a big signing bonus? I realize he potentially has a big payday coming but he’s still Dan Snyder.

 

[MikefromOH]

Eric Shaffer used to be here, as well, until Snyder fired him.

Do you think house poor Dan Snyder will put out for a big signing bonus? I realize he potentially has a big payday coming but he’s still Dan Snyder.

No, I don't. But, I'm hoping and dreaming he's gone soon and we won't have to worry about it.

 

[Neophyte]

Just for the sake of pure information, here is the list of our Free Agents this spring, with position and age - starters are in bold:

Da'Ron Payne, DT, 25
Wes Schweitzer, G, 29
Trai Turner, G, 29
Cam Sims, WR, 27
Joey Slye, K, 26
Taylor Heinicke, QB, 29
Efe Obada, DE, 30
Tyler Larsen, C, 31
David Mayo, OLB, 29
Jon Bostic, ILB, 31
Jonathan Williams, RB, 28
Nick Martin, C, 29
Khaleke Hudson, LB, 25
Milo Eifler, LB, 24
Jeremy Reaves, S, 26
Eli Wolf, TE, 25
Cole Holcomb, LB, 26
Rachad Wildgoose, CB, 22

And here is the current list of guys who will be FAs next spring - same format:

Curtis Samuel, WR, 27
Kendall Fuller, CB, 29
Bobby McCain, S, 30
JD McKissic, RB, 30
Cornelius Lucas, OT, 32
Montez Sweat, DE, 27
Antonio Gibson, RB, 25
Saahdiq Charles, G, 24
Kamren Curl, S, 24
James Smith-Williams, DE, 26
Casey Toohill, DE, 27
De'Jon Harris, LB, 26
Alex Akingbulu, T, 26

 

[SilentThreat]

Holcomb and Reaves may be the only 'must have' on that list.

Other guys like Schweitzer, Sims, Obada, Larsen, Mayo, Hudson, and Eifler are pieces you'd like to get back for depth.

Heinicke is arguably a top 5 backup in the league so take that for what it's worth...

Not a ton of money there. The bigger money is next offseason with Curl / Sweat / Gibson / , and Young the year after (assuming we pick up year 5), as well as Forrest and St-Juste

 

[Neophyte]

Yeah, I'd be trying to extend at least Curl, and maybe Sweat, this off-season, along with resigning Holcomb and Reaves.

Honestly, also like to have Williams to back up Robinson.

 

[SilentThreat]

Yeah, I'd be trying to extend at least Curl, and maybe Sweat, this off-season, along with resigning Holcomb and Reaves.

Honestly, also like to have Williams to back up Robinson.

for vet min sure... cuz thats what we get production wise.

J.D. McKissic's future is in flux so who knows what you get there. They clearly don't have any confidence in Patterson, so the 3rd string RB job could be not only available, but a necessity. I like the idea of Williams, his contract was worth just over $1m this year. That number I'd be ok with, but can we get that same production out of a late round rookie, or another vet as that 'insurance.?' It's one of those aspects of the roster a lot of people dont consider when they talk about spending money.

That list you posted had 18 players... i'd say 5 or 6 were mid season signings to add depth due to injury, they weren't part of the plans going into the preseason. That means 13 of those guys were likely part of the final 53.. if you dont spend on them, you have to spend on someone else, whether it be cap space, or draft capital.

 

[Rymanofthenorth]

you cant afford to give 2 dt's max contracts. you dont pay a NT what you pay a 3tech even when he is a very solid nose, you can get a decent nose for much less.

 

[Boone]

We need to move on from McKissic. Love the guy but his injuries are serious and we can’t rely on him any more.

 

[Neophyte]

As much as I wanted McKissic back here this year, in hindsight they should have let him go to Buffalo.

 

[Chris]

McKissic, injuries aside, should have went to Buffalo. Maybe he just hates snow?

 

[Bulldog]

San Francisco ultimately decided to trade Brentson Buckner because they could not afford to pay everyone and keep a top 10 defensive unit in place.

Smart teams don't overload contracts at one position.

Dallas was lucky to be able to find a trade partner for Amari Cooper after they realized CeeDee Lamb was the true #1 receiver and Michael Gallup needed a new deal to stay as the #3.

 

[Canadian Hog]

I want to believe that a year ago, this team was quietly assessing Payne's trade value and getting a feel for what they could get in return. If they didn't, that is malpractice and another story...

Anyways, let's just assume they did the right thing and did that, and determined they would receive nothing of significant value to make it worth it to play 2022 without Payne on the roster.

That to me would be a warning sign. If other teams an offseason ago did not find the prospect of adding a solid, young, DT with four years of experience to their roster appealing enough to give up a late day 1 or early day two draft pick for instance, why should Washington now feel Payne needs to become an "at all costs" signing? His 11.5 sacks this year came within 3 of matching his four year career total prior. This was a classic case of a guy playing for a contract during 2022 and having the added benefit of doing so beside a guy who has played at an All Pro level for the last couple seasons.

 

[Chris]

Payne is not Haynesworth. He is not Jonathan Allen either.

I never suspected even a little bit that Allen would drop-off after signing a big deal. I’m not so sure about Payne. As with anything, time will tell.

 

[Boone]

And they drafted Phil Mathis …

 

[Boone]

Logan Thomas is an UFA in 2025 but I’d consider trading him or releasing him.

He is oft-injured and his level of play is declining.