Cousins

[Henry]

One thing I'd be willing to bet a buck on today though is whether or not Cousins' presence brings any additional "pressure" to bear on RG3 heading into 2012.

Says here not.

You may be right. I hope you're right.

Just one thing before I go: I have been a fan of this team for as long as I can remember, and the one thing I can say with absolute certainty is that the most popular player on the team, year in and year out, is the quarterback who has not yet taken the field.

Griffin is untouchable right now because, you guessed it, he hasn't played yet. But he will.

Cousins, on the other hand, probably won't play for awhile. And unless Griffin comes out of the gate like gangbusters, the longer Cousins holds a clipboard the more popular he'll get. I'd be happy to bet a dollar on that.

 

[Neophyte]

Cousins is a guy that can make all the throws, is competitive, and a good leader. However he makes some very questionable to terrible decisions under pressure and at critical times. Sound familiar? My primary fear is that he is Rex Grossman 2.0.

Possible but he does have the athleticism to make every play in Kyle's book which is totally unlike Rex so at least the game plan wouldn't change any.

 

[Om]

You may be right. I hope you're right.

Just one thing before I go: I have been a fan of this team for as long as I can remember, and the one thing I can say with absolute certainty is that the most popular player on the team, year in and year out, is the quarterback who has not yet taken the field.

Griffin is untouchable right now because, you guessed it, he hasn't played yet. But he will.

Cousins, on the other hand, probably won't play for awhile. And unless Griffin comes out of the gate like gangbusters, the longer Cousins holds a clipboard the more popular he'll get. I'd be happy to bet a dollar on that.

Does that mean that at the end of last year Jonathan Compton was the most popular player on the team?

Ok just messin'.

I know that's been a popular belief for a long time...the backup QB is the most popular man in town...but I'm not sure it holds up so well if you start going team to team and specific player to specific player.

Either way, I don't think those of us here, passionate brethren who take their football seriously and occasionally even apply some gray matter to the task, are prone to such foolhardy flights of falacious fantasy. The dirty unwashed masses "out there" of course, might be another matter.

Fortunately I don't think the Shanalahan's care much about what they think.

 

[Boone]

Henry, I agree with a lot of that- but again, a pick up like Cousins isn't made for 'now' or how it might impact the team now , its made to provide stability for years down the road (at least I hope it is).

As for the 'added pressure' stuff, its the norm that every starting QB is at risk to have fans calling for his head after a stretch of bad play. Would it really represent a positive to avoid that by keeping a guy NO ONE would ever pine for no matter how bad the starter entrenched as the backup?

Your best point is that we know nothing about Cousins as an NFL QB. On the other hand, what if RG3 turns out to have been wildly over-hyped and doesn't turn out to be Superman? We're going to find out what he is regardless of who the alternative is. If he isn't who we thought he was, who knows, maybe Cousins is. We know one thing - Grossman isn't leading us to the Promised Land.

Sent from my BlackBerry 9650 using Tapatalk

 

[Henry]

Henry, I agree with a lot of that- but again, a pick up like Cousins isn't made for 'now' or how it might impact the team now , its made to provide stability for years down the road (at least I hope it is).

As for the 'added pressure' stuff, its the norm that every starting QB is at risk to have fans calling for his head after a stretch of bad play. Would it really represent a positive to avoid that by keeping a guy NO ONE would ever pine for no matter how bad the starter entrenched as the backup?

Your best point is that we know nothing about Cousins as an NFL QB. On the other hand, what if RG3 turns out to have been wildly over-hyped and doesn't turn out to be Superman? We're going to find out what he is regardless of who the alternative is. If he isn't who we thought he was, who knows, maybe Cousins is. We know one thing - Grossman isn't leading us to the Promised Land.

I think what I'm saying, Boone, if I'm saying anything, is that Griffin WILL have a stretch of bad play. I think unless he really is the Greatest QB Of The Modern Era he's going to look like crap for long stretches this year. I know this may surprise some, but he may need a year to develop before he becomes the amazing phenom we all expect.

Your question at the end ... that is my point. Griffin most likely IS over-hyped and won't look like superman this year. He most likely ISN'T who most fans think he is right now. "Who know, maybe Cousins is" ... we could very well hear that. A lot. Hell, you just said it. And I don't think that's something we should be thinking about this year. Not this year.

And I think that's my point.

 

[Om]

I dont think anyone really expects RG3 to play like a Pro Bowler all year this year, Henry. Have you seen any indication of that?

And I have to press you on this...because I loves ya too...do you really think it will matter to anyone actually involved (RG3, Shanahan, the team), when RG3 has a 3-pick loss or two, what a few grousing fans/media might say about Cousins? I have a hard time believing anyone with any credibility at all (I know that's a broad stroke) would seriously go there.

 

[tshile]

i'm over the conversation but i saw this and wanted to comment:

Do fans in this town have a history of being patient with their starter?

thankfully, i don't think that matters any more. I don't think shanahan gives two ****s what you think about the pick, or who the current QB's are.

and thank god, because we've seen what 13 years of doing what you think the fans want has gotten us - a situation so awful that it is going to take 5 years minimum to rebound from.

 

[Neophyte]

I guess I am odd but I don't expect Griffin to have that "rough stretch". We saw success last year from Newton and Dalton and while neither lit the world on fire every series, you can make the case that neither really had a "rough stretch" in the classic sense (meaning 2 or 3 games in a row where they just stunk the joint up).

And I don't think it is unreasonable to expect Griffin to largely duplicate that performance this year.

Sure, Griff didn't play against SEC defenses like Newton but then neither did Dalton and Dalton did pretty good in the AFC North, a division known for hard nosed, physical defense with lots of ugly twists to mess with a rookie's head.

By all accounts, Griff is a fast learner, a student of the game, a hard worker and a near perfect fit for the system being run by this team. He also has a history of taking really good care of the football.

Now, don't get me wrong, I don't expect an All Pro season out of him but I will be surprised if he doesn't have a better year than more than half the QBs in the league.

 

[Henry]

I dont think anyone really expects RG3 to play like a Pro Bowler all year this year, Henry. Have you seen any indication of that?

Seems to be all over the place to me. Maybe I'm reading this town wrong.

And I have to press you on this...because I loves ya too...do you really think it will matter to anyone actually involved (RG3, Shanahan, the team), when RG3 has a 3-pick loss or two, what a few grousing fans/media might say about Cousins? I have a hard time believing anyone with any credibility at all (I know that's a broad stroke) would seriously go there.

Om, I can rattle off about a half a dozen things involving the QB position I didn't really expect Shanahan to do since becoming our coach, the most recent being ... drafting a QB in the fourth round the same year that we made an historic trade to get a QB in the first round. At this point I honestly don't put anything past this front office when it comes to that spot.

Like I said earlier in this thread, when it comes to head-scratching QB decisions from Shanahan, 'maybe they know something I don't know' wore off a LONG time ago for me.

 

[Elephant]

I never would have guessed, a QB-related discussion is apparently polarizing among Redskins fans!

Who would have thought a damn Fantasy Football league could have been so polarizing?

 

[tshile]

Seems to be all over the place to me. Maybe I'm reading this town wrong.

You're definitely reading it wrong.

I haven't met or heard from a single person yet who hasn't expressed the idea that their joy in drafting Griffin also comes with the understanding that he has to learn the ropes, adjust to the NFL, and bond with his coaches/teammates to lead this team to the level of success we want.

 

[Om]

Hey Henry.

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l87UV5gYa5s[/media]

Shanahan said from day one it was a 5 year rebuild. Even at QB. We've seen a ton of evidence that he's taking the long view on practically every position/facet of the team. It's possible he viewed first DMac and then Grossbeck as fillers while he tried to build a support system around the QB position, AND didn't reach looking for the right opportunity to grab a legit franchise guy.

Bums me out you seem to be assuming the worst at this point about any decision he makes at QB based on the first 2 years. If that's just a defense mechanism, well, I guess I get that. But I'm thinking given the evidence of his patience building the rest of the team up along a 5 year curve, he probably deserves at least a little bit of benefit of the doubt that he's got a plan at QB too.

Tell you what....I'll concede that he COULD have his head up his ass and the Cousins pick is just another example of it....and you concede that maybe the choice was actually in line with some pretty stable and defensible NFL thought process.

Si?

 

[Elephant]

You're definitely reading it wrong.

I haven't met or heard from a single person yet who hasn't expressed the idea that their joy in drafting Griffin also comes with the understanding that he has to learn the ropes, adjust to the NFL, and bond with his coaches/teammates to lead this team to the level of success we want.

It wasn't my experience at the stadium on Saturday. I heard a lot of talk about NFCE dominance and Super Bowl this year.

 

[Om]

People getting some mileage outta those $11 Miller Lites?

 

[Elephant]

People getting some mileage outta those $11 Miller Lites?

I saw $9 Miller Lites Om. Sure am glad I don't drink anymore!

 

[tshile]

It wasn't my experience at the stadium on Saturday. I heard a lot of talk about NFCE dominance and Super Bowl this year.

Then you hung around a bunch of idiots


I constantly hear about these phantom fans that claim we're going to win the super bowl ever time the team makes a move, but i've never heard anyone talk like that in the last 5-6 years. People talk about it on the forums, people in the media talk about it, yet i've not actually heard people talk like that in 5-6 years; only reports that supposedly people are talking like that...

Either you people hang around a bunch of dumb people or I'm sheltered from the rest of the world

 

[Elephant]

Then you hung around a bunch of idiots


I constantly hear about these phantom fans that claim we're going to win the super bowl ever time the team makes a move, but i've never heard anyone talk like that in the last 5-6 years. People talk about it on the forums, people in the media talk about it, yet i've not actually heard people talk like that in 5-6 years; only reports that supposedly people are talking like that...

Either you people hang around a bunch of dumb people or I'm sheltered from the rest of the world

Why you gotta put me in with the idiots? I was there by myself taking pictures and over heard it. They are not phantoms.

How many games have you attended in the last 5 years? The amount of "Redskins winning the NFCE or the Super Bowl" claims at games is pretty common in the approximately 15-16 games I have been to in the last 3 years upon my return to the area. It is kinda embarrassing especially when we are losing to the Cowgirls or another NFCE team.

Go over to the other site and it's all over the place. Yeah, I gotta say you are sheltered...

 

[Henry]

Bums me out you seem to be assuming the worst at this point about any decision he makes at QB based on the first 2 years. If that's just a defense mechanism, well, I guess I get that. But I'm thinking given the evidence of his patience building the rest of the team up along a 5 year curve, he probably deserves at least a little bit of benefit of the doubt that he's got a plan at QB too.

It's not the defense mechanism thing. If it were I'd have been screaming bloody murder over the fact that we traded all those picks for Griffin like Ryman does (sorry Ry, had to ) but I thought that move made sense. Fact is, what made me not like this move was the move itself. My criticism of Shanahan's handling of the QB spot in general is really just a response to all the 'he must know what he's doing' talk. I don't necessarily agree with that. His track record with the Redskins doesn't justify that line of thinking in my mind. That's all.

I don't think we're doomed at QB or anything. I just don't like the move.

Tell you what....I'll concede that he COULD have his head up his ass and the Cousins pick is just another example of it....and you concede that maybe the choice was actually in line with some pretty stable and defensible NFL thought process.

Si?

Sure. Believe it or not I'm not pacing around the house kicking over furniture because I disapprove of one fourth round pick we made in this year's draft. It's not that big a deal, and as you say I might be completely wrong. The only reason I'm talking about this at all is because someone asked. Other than that pick I thought we did pretty well this offseason, and I am in general quite pleased with the direction we seem to be taking since last offseason.

 

[Fear The Spear]

Two years from now when the Redskins are challenging in the NFC East, do you want Cousins or an interception prone Rex Grossman taking over for Robert Griffin if he is hurt for a key two or three game stretch?

Two years from now, I don't see Rex even being on our roster, under ANY circumstance

 

[Fear The Spear]

I don't want Cousins to be satisfied as a backup. He should strive to be the starter. This will only make both better. If RG3 doesn't like competition, which I believe he does, then that would worry me.

When I heard Cousins talk about his reaction to being drafted by the Skins, there was an implied disappointment in his statement, because he apparently knew he would get little or no playing time, after being drafted by the team with RG3.

You may be right. I hope you're right.

Just one thing before I go: I have been a fan of this team for as long as I can remember, and the one thing I can say with absolute certainty is that the most popular player on the team, year in and year out, is the quarterback who has not yet taken the field.

Griffin is untouchable right now because, you guessed it, he hasn't played yet. But he will.

Cousins, on the other hand, probably won't play for awhile. And unless Griffin comes out of the gate like gangbusters, the longer Cousins holds a clipboard the more popular he'll get. I'd be happy to bet a dollar on that.

Cousins is not going to be the typical "backup underdog fan favorite/hero"
Because Griff is not going to be the typical starter, even if he struggles.
Even tho he hasn't played a down yet, there's a LOT more confidence and love for him, by the fans and staff, not to mention the incredible price we paid for him, than your typical rookie starter, so with that, comes more patience. He will be on a very very long leash. We would be absolutely stupid to beg for a QB change, or make a permanent QB change, in favor of Cousins, within the first 2 years, barring an absolute, complete meltdown by Griff.