• Welcome to BGO! We know you will have questions as you become familiar with the software. Please take a moment to read our New BGO User Guide which will give you a great start. If you have questions, post them in the Feedback and Tech Support Forum, or feel free to message any available Staff Member.

Cousins

One of many experimental iterations ...

fansince62

Guest

national media is raising a ruckus over this pick. so are local sports media. the gist of it is why a team with pronounced talent needs that sacrificed a big chunk of draft change for one QB drafted another QB who will not contribute on the field at the same position.

hard to tell if the ruckus is valid or just more Skins hating.

hope Mike knows what he's doing.
 

Last edited by a moderator:

Boone

The Commissioner
Staff member
BGO Ownership Group
Joined
Apr 11, 2009
Messages
41,771
Reaction score
2,406
Points
2,044
Location
Greensboro, NC

Marine Corps Virginia

If we're in the thick of it sometime in the next 3-4 seasons and Griffin goes down, NO ONE will be squawking if Cousins is able to come in and be effective. Only time will tell if this was a shrewd pick with high value, or a gamble that we couldn't afford to make.
 

GSF

The Starter
Joined
Dec 21, 2010
Messages
1,047
Reaction score
12
Points
38


I like the pick. Draft your back up and develop him behind the starter.
 

China

The Team Captain
Joe Gibbs Club Member
Joined
Aug 3, 2009
Messages
2,677
Reaction score
22
Points
68
Location
Falls Church, VA

Michigan State

I wasn't expecting the 'skins to draft another QB, let alone with such a high pick. I do think it could be a good pick in the right situation, as Boone said if RGIII goes down and he's had time to learn and can step in.

I have no objection to jettisoning Beck and Grossman and bringing in someone fresh who doesn't have ingrained bad habits and can learn the system and position from the ground up (i.e., doesn't require re-training).

As an MSU alum, I'll say what I've said before: he's a high character guy with good leadership skills. He can make all the throws but to me seems to have a tendency to make bad decisions in critical situations. Hopefully, with time on the bench and good coaching he can learn the system and position well enough that his decision making isn't an issue and he can be a productive (and hopefully seldom used) backup.
 

Neophyte

Super Bowl MVP
Staff member
BGO Ownership Group
Joined
Jun 30, 2009
Messages
8,552
Reaction score
179
Points
218
Location
Dallas


So I have three words for you about this:

Houston, Chicago and Indianapolis

I am sure you can see the connection. All three lost franchise level or higher QBs this last season. Houston had capable depth at the position and it not only saved their season, it got them nearly to the AFC Championship game. Chicago and Indy did not. In the case of the first it lost them a chance at the playoffs and in the case of the second it got them the #1 pick in the draft.

It isn't just about having a capable backup, it is about having the right capable backup. Rex can be a solid backup for someone like Brady or Manning where they stay almost exclusively in the pocket but this offense is going to be based on a guy who can work inside or outside the pocket. Who can throw on the run and who inspires fear in the defense with his arm first and with his feet second.

If the QB is the most important position in team sports, the backup QB cannot be far behind it. Not in a sport where anything can happen on any given play and that anything might cost your starter his season.
 

Elephant

The Commissioner
Joe Gibbs Club Member
Joined
Aug 1, 2009
Messages
24,885
Reaction score
503
Points
1,143

Florida State

If we didn't have two 4th round picks I doubt we make that move. However, we jettisoned the second 4th round pick for a later 4th and a 6th where we might have picked up 2 steals in the draft. Lanky posted a thread earlier and I saw something elsewhere...can't remember what site...that suggests Tom Compton could be a starter, if nothing else a solid back up and a potential starter in Keenan Robinson after London moves on.

So we pick up 3 players from the 4th round, a solid backup at the most important position on the field...QB, an ILB that is the likely successor to our defensive captain and an OT who could be one of the biggest steals of the draft according to some.
 

Henry

Super Bowl MVP
BGO Ownership Group
Joined
Apr 12, 2009
Messages
9,859
Reaction score
179
Points
219
Location
Fairfax, VA


I understand the importance of having a legit backup, but I really don't like the pick.

The last thing we need here right now is another Gus/Health controversy. We love Griffin now and can't imagine him ever not being wildly popular here but at some point he's going to actually play, and most likely he's going to actually look terrible and we'll most likely actually lose a lot in the process. He's going to need time to do that before he finds his pro game, and as much as we'd like to think otherwise, Redskin fans are EXTREMELY fickle about QB play. I can almost guarantee that at some point the 'start Cousins' cry will be heard in this town. It's a problem we didn't have to have.

And, of course, we could have used that pick for something we need right now.
 

tshile

Guest
It's not going to matter after griffin goes out there and lights it up a few games in a row.

So... it's just off season filler for the media. They'll move along once something comes up.
 

CounterTrey

The Team Captain
Joined
Mar 30, 2010
Messages
2,623
Reaction score
66
Points
78
Location
Columbus, OH


It's all hyperbole run amok and classic Redskin/Snyder hating. I've read numerous times about this being our worst draft move in team history(gimme a break) and that this was just typical Redskins moves, the type Snyder makes all the time.

Oh where to start, Snyder isn't doing anything but sign check so it can't be "typical" based on a track record that didn't include Shanny or Allen. Worst move? I thought it was a GOOD pick especially in retrospective after further analysis. I get the fan boys panning this they don't know our team. The people paid to write about this are just being lazy, and frankly I'm sick of it. The point about us needing to have a track record of success before we get benefit of doubt is weak. Anyone who even hints that Grossman and Beck are acceptable let alone good backups is a card carrying moron who should be banned from ever posting another article on line. Dramatic effect is one thing but the fallout from this is just insanely stupid. One guy said we were among the 3 or 4 worst drafts because of this one move. My God how I'd love to meet one of these mentards in person.
 

drumlinboy

BGO Fantasy FootballChampion 2014,
Joined
Mar 12, 2012
Messages
366
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Location
Scotland


I have really tried to decipher this pick and come of the fence but I can't and as we say over here "my arse hurts from sitting the fence so long"

I understand the theory if Griffen goes down do you really want Grossman back?

What kind of player would we have gotten had we not taken Cousins and would they be a starter?

One thing is certain there is no QB controversy. RGIII is the starter and Grossmann has to beat out Cousins for the back up job.

I feel more comfortible about the QB position and depth than I did last season.

But I cannot get of this fence because i keep thinking why not pick up a QB later?
 

Henry

Super Bowl MVP
BGO Ownership Group
Joined
Apr 12, 2009
Messages
9,859
Reaction score
179
Points
219
Location
Fairfax, VA


CT, I agree that calling this one of the worst draft moves in team history is way over the top. Good grief. I can think of about five off the top of my head that still make me cringe (Andre Johnson?).

I do, however, think it was a questionable move. The track record argument is perfectly legitimate. Since coming to DC Shanahan and Allen have made one absolutely horrible QB move after another. Trading for McNabb, benching McNabb and starting Grossman, starting Grossman, signing Beck, playing Beck ... have we actually made ONE good QB move since Shanahan became coach? Anything?

Trading up for Griffin might be the first. Might. But even with that we make another complete head-scratcher of a move right behind him. Seriously, is anyone else sick of looking at our QBs and wondering 'what the hell is our front office thinking?' because it's become and annual ritual here in DC. Every. Single. Year.

And even in a year when we have the second pick in the draft and everyone in the world knows who we are going to pick and it's supposedly a can't-miss prospect, our front office still manages to pull it off.

Bleh. Let's hope Griffin turns out to be amazing out of the gate and makes this all moot.
 

Goaldeje

The Legend
Staff member
BGO Ownership Group
Joined
Feb 1, 2010
Messages
18,406
Reaction score
58
Points
328
Location
Waynesboro, VA

James Madison

So wait a minute, Henry. You're not actually comparing the Beck/Grossman situation to the RGIII/Cousings situation, are you? Looking back at Beck and Grossman, ugh. Actually, my therapist has asked me not to do that, even though I'm paying for his kids' college tuition. We had zero legit NFL starters last year. Now we could, if things break right, have two potential starters, and that's a bad thing? I'm thinking what is likely to happen is RGIII looks great, Cousins looks OK, and all this goes away quickly. By the time Cousins starts to look really good :fingerscrossed:, RGIII should have the starting job locked down so securely we will have no choice but to trade Cousins. As an alum, China is telling us he needs time to develop and not make bad decisions. Sounds kinda like Rex, doesn't it? Except that Rex is 30+, and Cousins still has time to get rid of bad habits.

To me, worst case scenario is both QBs look sluggish coming out of the gate learning the pro game, and both guys take a little while to develop.

But either way, isn't it better to have two legit QB prospects on the team instead of what we had last year? How can we not view this as an improvement?
 

Om

Super Bowl MVP
Staff member
BGO Ownership Group
Joined
Apr 11, 2009
Messages
9,095
Reaction score
356
Points
239
Location
Montclair, VA

Virginia Tech

To me this is purely "benefit of the doubt" related.

If Saint Belichick, CG, (Certified Genius) makes this move, the world is falling all over themselves amazed at the stolen "value" derived form a media-be-damned 4th round pick, how "visionary" it was to deftly bank potential 2nd/3rd round future trade value when Cousins rookie contract is up, to have provided a "challenge" for RG3 lest he become too big-headed with all the media love.....etc.

The Skins make it? Moronic.
 

Lanky Livingston

Guest
I'm waffling more than Mitt Romney on this pick. First reaction, I HATED it. Second reaction, I kind of understand it. Third reaction, I'm almost liking the pick. Today I woke up hating it again.

I suppose we will just have to trust in Mike Shanahan enough that we had the quality depth and players that allow for a luxury pick. And make no mistake, this was a luxury pick. Om, the reason Belicheat can make picks like this and gets lauded for them is because his roster is generally pretty stacked. That, and they somehow always end up with 12 picks in the first 3 rounds. That affords him the ability to make a luxury pick like this.

At the end of the day, hopefully none of it will matter, and the only person still bitter about this move in two years will be Cousins himself. I would assume that the Shanahans will groom him into a capable starter, possibly showcase his talent next preseason or towards the end of this season (when we're resting our starters :beam: ) and then try and ship him off to another team for a 2nd round pick.
 

Om

Super Bowl MVP
Staff member
BGO Ownership Group
Joined
Apr 11, 2009
Messages
9,095
Reaction score
356
Points
239
Location
Montclair, VA

Virginia Tech

Belichick fielded one of the league's worst defense last year, LL. That's indicative of a "stacked roster?"
 

tshile

Guest
First, lanky, i think you're on to something when you say we should trust shanahan. As fans i think we're accustomed to second guessing every personnel move because we're so used to them blowing up.

Second, it was a fourth round pick. For all we know shanahan tried to trade out of it, couldn't, and went with the best player on their board; it happened to be a QB.

We have so many options going forward, to try and predict which way it's going to turn out is just a joke. We might wind up trading him for a new CB/Safety (not every trade involves picks), maybe we do get a pick back? Maybe he becomes the backup for the next 4-5 years and we finally get out of the rex grossman business. Maybe he never see's the field, and goes away after his contract is up.

Bottom line is this:
Good organizations draft QB's in the later rounds on a yearly basis, constantly improving their backup position. We're going to be taking a QB every year regardless of how well, or how healthy, griffin is.

So... instead of making it a giant controversy, let's just accept it. We finally have a FO and coaching staff that will put the best player on the field, and not base who starts on other decisions. Lets hope and pray whoever our backups are going forward, they only see the field in garbage time at the end of the year when we've locked up home field advantage ( :) ).

I'm going to get really upset and start yelling at people if we have to have this discussion every time we sign or draft a back up QB. It's going to happen a lot over the next 10 years. Griffin is our QB, and anyone we sign/draft for the next 10 years is a move to improve our backup situation, provide camp fodder, and create competition at the backu position. Get used to it.
 

Lanky Livingston

Guest
Belichick fielded one of the league's worst defense last year, LL. That's indicative of a "stacked roster?"
My exact quote was "Generally pretty stacked" - and last time I checked, the Patriots nabbed two of the best defensive players in the draft in the first round, and spent 6 of 7 picks on the D. They had a terrible defense, and he didn't draft a backup QB in the 4th round - this only proves my point.
 

Henry

Super Bowl MVP
BGO Ownership Group
Joined
Apr 12, 2009
Messages
9,859
Reaction score
179
Points
219
Location
Fairfax, VA


So wait a minute, Henry. You're not actually comparing the Beck/Grossman situation to the RGIII/Cousings situation, are you?
Only in the sense that in both situations there is a large segment of the football-watching world thinking "... huh?"

I know I use this phrase a lot, but at some point it's not the rest of the world that's the problem. Our front office consistently makes questionable QB moves. It just does. And two years ago our questionable QB move blew up in our face. Last year our questionable QB moves blew up in our face. This year we just made a questionable QB move ... and you guys aren't just a little worried?

And no, I'm not comparing Grossman and Beck to these new guys, because no comparison is ever completely valid. I am noting that our front office does not deserve any benefit of the doubt when it comes to QBs. At all. So far when our front office does something with the QBs that doesn't make sense it's not because they know something we don't. It has repeatedly turned out that the supposed ignorant masses were right and move in question actually was completely bone-headed.

I just can't do it again. I can't look at this move and think 'maybe they know something I don't.' They haven't earned that.

But either way, isn't it better to have two legit QB prospects on the team instead of what we had last year? How can we not view this as an improvement?
Goal, you and I could suit up and be an improvement over last year. That's an exceptionally low bar. :)

The issue here isn't whether we've improved at the QB spot. Barring another Jamarcus Russel-level bust from Griffin I think we can say we've done that. The issue here is whether drafting Cousins was a good idea. I see a lot of ways this can blow up in our face, and add to that the fact that we could have used that pick on an actual need ... I'm not thrilled with the pick.
 

tshile

Guest
the patriots having a 'terrible defense' is a myth that built up because people use some pretty generic, and with no context they are worthless, stats to 'rank' defenses.

the patriots defense was built to play with a lead, and when they had the lead the defense was really good. they weren't built to grind it out for 4 quarters and end 9 - 6. their weaknesses were exposed when games dragged on without the pats jumping out to the lead, especially when brady had bad games.

that defense is not nearly as bad as everyone likes to pretend they are. there's a reason they made it to the super bowl, and it's not because their defense sucked.
 

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Total: 1, Members: 0, Guests: 1)

Private conversations
Help Users
    Top