Coaching staff thread

I think you'd have to be one of their fans who actually watched entire seasons to know what was driving the poor performance/record down the stretch? Anyone know a Cardinal's fan we could talk to?
 
That along with the recent Raiders situation. Looks like a pattern and makes me suspicious that he might be a tad flaky.

He bailed on being the OC at USC to accept a HC offer in the NFL. I am not sure there are many guys that wouldn't in that scenario? Just sayin'... And I don't even know if he verbally accepted the Raiders offer, it was just 'reported' he would be their next OC.

Something to watch I guess.
 
When it comes to the OC position, I really don't know which way they should go. I think the supposed interest in Kingsbury is probably due to his history of taking young flawed QBs and getting the best out of them, whether it's ben Johnny Manziel, Baker Mayfield, Case Keenum, Davis Webb, Mahomes, and (I guess one could argue) Kyler Murray at the pro level.
 
I still don’t understand the fascination with EB.

Me either. I'm all for the 100% reset for the coaching staff. I think EB will get another OC gig somewhere. Shit, maybe the Raiders now.

There is so much going on in total. The Ben Johnson stuff, the MacDonald 6 year contract, etc. I'm not going to pretend to understand all the moving pieces and I especially don't believe sportstalk hosts understand it much more than we do. I'm of multiple minds on what kind of OC would do best here. They all have benefits and possible issues. If we liked the Adam Peters hiring a few weeks ago. This is part of it. Quinn isn't going to just pick his staff by himself. Peters and Shen are going to be all up in that process too. Looking at what's working in the league. What talent they have. What the number say about what they can run. Etc.
 
I think you'd have to be one of their fans who actually watched entire seasons to know what was driving the poor performance/record down the stretch? Anyone know a Cardinal's fan we could talk to?

Can't speak to all their results, but if I remember correctly, during the 4-13 season where the Cards entered it with high expectations, I think they were completely decimated with injuries along the offensive line, and were without Hopkins due to suspension for the first part of the year. It seemed like a year bound to fail from the get go, so I wouldn't put too much stock into that result in the final year. All in all though, Kingsbury always struck me as the type that was probably taking on too much responsibility in Arizona. Being a first time NFL head coach and offensive coordinator at 39 years old is no walk in the park. Over and above that, you look at the staffs he assembled and you don't see those trusted, experienced pros that some younger coaches surround themselves with (e.g., MacDonald and Frazier union) to navigate their way through the stormy waters that always surface in an NFL season. Kingsbury, for all we know, may not have surrounded himself with the right people and that may partially contribute towards explaining why he could never show consistency in results. An OC role in the NFL with one main focus may be more aligned with his skill set as a coach. 🤷
 
Good stuff CH :cheers:
 
Let me throw this perspective out there.

I had a defensive end in high school who ended up going and playing in the NFL. Great young man.

Had a crucial game we were playing and we knew the offense was about to attack an area on the field based on our defensive look. So with that, we called a TO so we could get everyone on the same page. In that huddle, I put us in our base defense for that week and explained how I wanted it to look. But I changed 3 guys responsibility on the backside and had them say back to me what they were going to do. We were showing (disguising) our defense to lure them into the play(s) we had seen them have some success with. The adjustments were perfect. Not going to lie. On paper....beautiful. I sent them back out to the field.

From the time they left me to the snap of the ball. 10 of my 11 players did exactly what I communicated. The one, my NFL player, did not. We give up a crucial 1st down that took away too much of our needed time to make the proper comeback. No one play causes defeat in a game. But it sure didn't help our cause.

A couple of things learned from this one experience:

After the game, as a coaching staff, we did not point fingers at any coach and lay the blame at their feet as the crucial part that failed. As the DC, I get the loss as I called the game. I accept and take that responsibility. For what its worth, the HC of the team that beat us that game, recruited me to be his DC because what he saw, in his words, was a talent to put kids in the right spot at the right time. Also, he had heard good things about how I treat the kids, parents and administration. His perspective from afar. A humbling moment for a coach. Makes your chest stick a little.

The second thing and the reality of how this game is to a coach. I am a great coach when I have great players. When my players aren't that good...apparently I am not a good coach. Again, the POV from the individual making a judgement is based on experience and whatever inputs (information) they gather as they live the sport. Nobody's view is incorrect. You always make the best choice you can with what information you have. The decision makers always get more information than anyone else for obvious reasons. It is why you see what people call re-treads. Doesn't mean its the correct choice. However, it is as close as an educated decision as one can make. You can begin to see the complexity of such choices and why people with experience don't just go with the fresh new ideas. Doesn't mean they won't but there is a calculated choice being made.

With this one little experience added to the thousands that happen every year for each individual....there is still only one category that is highlighted by ALL. Results. Luckily, in the coaching ranks, that one number is not the make or break for an opportunity. Its the face to face and relationship you build with the guys and gals around you.
 
The Kingsbury tale in Arizona is I think the same lesson we were talking about with coaches a few days ago.

Kliff came in and immediately drafted Kyler Murray, who looked good during that 10-6 season.

But his size and durability issues weighed against him being able to do what he did that year over a 10-12 year NFL career.

Once again, who was the GM and who was the Owner?

Arizona Cardinals - notoriously bad organization.

Allowed HC coming in to make personnel decisions unchecked.

It's a snippet of all we have been talking about in terms of lessons learned that Quinn went through over the past couple of years after Atlanta.
 
Let me throw this perspective out there.

I had a defensive end in high school who ended up going and playing in the NFL. Great young man.

Had a crucial game we were playing and we knew the offense was about to attack an area on the field based on our defensive look. So with that, we called a TO so we could get everyone on the same page. In that huddle, I put us in our base defense for that week and explained how I wanted it to look. But I changed 3 guys responsibility on the backside and had them say back to me what they were going to do. We were showing (disguising) our defense to lure them into the play(s) we had seen them have some success with. The adjustments were perfect. Not going to lie. On paper....beautiful. I sent them back out to the field.

From the time they left me to the snap of the ball. 10 of my 11 players did exactly what I communicated. The one, my NFL player, did not. We give up a crucial 1st down that took away too much of our needed time to make the proper comeback. No one play causes defeat in a game. But it sure didn't help our cause.

A couple of things learned from this one experience:

After the game, as a coaching staff, we did not point fingers at any coach and lay the blame at their feet as the crucial part that failed. As the DC, I get the loss as I called the game. I accept and take that responsibility. For what its worth, the HC of the team that beat us that game, recruited me to be his DC because what he saw, in his words, was a talent to put kids in the right spot at the right time. Also, he had heard good things about how I treat the kids, parents and administration. His perspective from afar. A humbling moment for a coach. Makes your chest stick a little.

The second thing and the reality of how this game is to a coach. I am a great coach when I have great players. When my players aren't that good...apparently I am not a good coach. Again, the POV from the individual making a judgement is based on experience and whatever inputs (information) they gather as they live the sport. Nobody's view is incorrect. You always make the best choice you can with what information you have. The decision makers always get more information than anyone else for obvious reasons. It is why you see what people call re-treads. Doesn't mean its the correct choice. However, it is as close as an educated decision as one can make. You can begin to see the complexity of such choices and why people with experience don't just go with the fresh new ideas. Doesn't mean they won't but there is a calculated choice being made.

With this one little experience added to the thousands that happen every year for each individual....there is still only one category that is highlighted by ALL. Results. Luckily, in the coaching ranks, that one number is not the make or break for an opportunity. Its the face to face and relationship you build with the guys and gals around you.
Chase Young? 😉
 
I am rooting for KC. I wouldn't mind Trent Williams winning a ring after all the s*** he put up with here with Bruce Allen and Snyder, but the idea of Chase Young going around bragging on social media has me going the other way.
 
One of the very first things I do in deciding if someone is worth a closer look. I ask one simple question and fill in what blanks I can. In this case, was he set up to succeed? Some questions to answer this one would be:

Did he bring in his own staff to push his philosophy in a structured manner or did he inherit coaches from an old regime? (Was he teaching the teachers?)
Did he present the traits of what he needs each position to have and where did he make adjustments accordingly? (Where did he grade his team for what he wanted to do?)
IF I can speak with him, can he demonstrate various processes he implemented to adapt and adjust to the ever fluid action of running an offense? (You got punched in the face....what did you do next and why?)
What were your triggers in play calling? (Lack of roster experience or a weakness in his game day action.)

There is a lot more that comes with this but you get the idea.

All of this is the first step in deciding to either clean house and start all over or do I need to replace the brakes and slap some new tires on this bad boy and give it a go?

With as much capital as we have going into this whole process, I will always want to improve first IF I can than spend extra to rebuild not only in money but time. Doesn't mean I have to choose EB, but I do kick the tires on the vehicle and check the moving parts before I throw it out. It is the smart thing to do.

But to be clear from a football stand point. I am LINE guy. Give me OLine and DLine first and then I will focus on the rest. Those 2 parts of their respective sides of the ball are the SOLE reason you win consistently in this sport. All the money positions depend on these guys being damn good at their job. I start there. If those spots are not good, then I don't care who is doing what....you will not be successful for a season and therefore you were not set up for success.
 
Wanted to ask a deadline question:

At what date do we need to get a staff together to optimize our free agent strategy and our draft strategy? How long will it take for the new staff to review tape on their units and grade out each player and back up and make recommendations? I suppose this question extends to front office positions as well as coaching positions, but Peters has a week head start. I would like to see some additional scouts added at least, but I do wonder how long we have before the team building impacts the way we construct the roster?
 
To me a key to which direction you go. Great question. When you choose the OC, that person, at least in a utopian sense, will have a staff to follow them that will expedite the process of evaluation and allow the smoothest transition. Basically, the guy we choose, how fast can you get your team in place and do your damn job with us. That is, of course, assuming you pick a guy who truly aligns with your vision of how the team will move forward. Welcome to buying a lottery ticket...though with a little bit more control.

I would tell you the deadline to add players and to release players is coming, but the process is pretty universal so its going to be communication within the group. Since Peters is the final say on such thing with Quinn's input....we have a little extra time but not much.
 
As a neophyte (not Neophyte) I would think that the evaluation of the current roster players and the possibly attractive outside FAs would be critically dependent on the new staff more than the draft would be. Draft talent evaluations by the current front office parts (college scouts, etc) should still be valid since they are professionally qualified individuals. Those evals will, of course, be reviewed and scrutinized and then be fit into the intended plan.

I would guess. 😉
 
Of the names all proposed for OC only one would be preferred over EB and that is Chip Kelly, I would not touch Kingsbury with a 10 foot pole
 
On the Kingsbury discussion, we have to remember that he's never been an offensive coordinator in the NFL. All of his failures and successes were as the head coach. We've seen many a coach who is a good coordinator and not a good head coach. Will he be successful calling plays in the NFL when he doesn't have the head coaching responsibilities as well? I don't know, but it will be a different responsibility. I think Kingsbury is a big risk that could pay off in a huge way, or it could fail spectacularly. With hiring Quinn, part of me feels like they need to take a risk on an OC that could pay off. Not saying it's Kingsbury, but I'd love a swing for the fences. The other upside on Kingsbury is that if he is successful with the offense, his past failure as a head coach makes it less likely he is hired away as a head coach. Other coordinators that could come in may get hired away if the offense is successful. I don't think Kingsbury will have that problem.

Overall, I think I would intrigued by Kingsbury, knowing that it could be really good or really bad. I just don't think I want to see a bland hire at OC, i.e. Scott Turner.
 
And on EB as OC . I had read a lot half way through the season that EB was running the show and Ron had all but checked out. And that was the time that the offense went down hill. If we keep EB as OC I can see him doing a much better job next season with out all the pressure to do the HC job and OC job.
 
Of the names all proposed for OC only one would be preferred over EB and that is Chip Kelly, I would not touch Kingsbury with a 10 foot pole

Why? Kingsbury did not have an OC - he handled playcalling in Arizona and they were to 10 rushing 3 times in 4 seasons and top 15 passing. He did wonders with young QBs in college.
 
Kingsbury Air raid offense is dead as one of the reporters in AZ said -Kilff is terrible at play calling, time management , player personal, scheming and player development.
 

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