Coaching staff thread

Now you have to wonder, what makes hiring a Kingsbury, a Johnson (from Philly) or a Kelly would be such a great improvement over EB in a 2nd year. We are going to add better players, thats not in question. But what do they bring to the table that brings the missing link?

The perspective I am curious about the most is DQ's perspective on our roster and staff as he comes from a very unique position. What if he sits there and says 'Geez, give EB a good Oline and that would of stressed us out in Dallas' Of course, I have no idea what he wants to do or even what Peters has in mind. But the totality of what has to change with each choice at OC puts in play, how can we create the best start for the team. How does our draft board and FA list alter as we settle on the OC. How many knowns and unknowns can be counted with each choice and what does that do to the budget, quick plan, big plan.....yada yada yada.

This is going to be a fun off season
 
I don't know enough about any of the OC candidates right now to make any definitive comparisons - but 2 of those guys have not only been OCs, they've been HCs. I think that experience is pretty valuable. They also have years and years of calling plays. EB has one.

In terms of experience (unless you count hanging around Andy Reid and Patrick Mahomes as experience), I think it's night and day between those guys and Bienemy. There's also the issue where it doesn't sound like players are pining to have Bienemy for another year (to the extent that IS a real issue - hard to know?). I think wiping the slate clean from the Rivera era and starting again with an entirely new crew has some value.
 
I would love to hear your thoughts, Utah, on Howell with another year under Bieniemy vs a new OC. And on the possibility of a newly drafted QB plus Howell under both scenarios.
 
Wow....I may have to make a video out of this response.....there is a lot to unpack with this subject.
 
Chris said:
Kingsbury was expected to interview for Chicago’s OC position. Then they hired Shane Waldron.
Click to expand...
Kingsbury DID interview for the Chicago OC position. Once.

There may have been some speculation that the interview was more about what Kliff knosw about Williams than what Kliff knows about designing/calling an NFL offense.
 
Okay, the number of conspiracy theories that have popped up with the rumors of about Kingsbury is crazy.

I mean...damn.

Imaginations are working overtime.
 
I’m not saying he’s wrong but he’s certainly not John Kiem. 🤣
 
I still don’t understand the fascination with EB.

If we took names out of it and I told you we had the chance to hire a 55 year old coach as OC who had called plays for ONE year in the NFL and that was on a 4-13 team that lead the league in attempts and interceptions.

What would the response be?

My guess is there wouldn’t be a lot of support for that hire.

For some reason the fact EB carried a clipboard for Andy Reid for 5 years has some folks here mesmerized by the thought there was some transference there that has not yet been recognized.

But that phenomenon seems only to have hit some fans here. No one on 30 other teams or their fans are clamoring for EB.

Beyond the OC arguments which at least refer back to what EB did or didn’t do in 2023, the further argument some were having that he would be a good HEAD COACH candidate just has me shaking my head.

The NFL road is littered with assistants who were hired as HC because they sat at the feet of greatness. The golden dust rarely transfers.

EB working for Reid in Reid’s system where Reid calls the plays shows what exactly?

If Reid was a defensive coach and the Chiefs had sustained success with an offense that was largely an EB created scheme where he calls the plays, then in that circumstance I would say he has shown his work can stand on its own for him to take that experience forward.

The NFL is littered with the ghosts of former Belichick defensive assistants who implemented his system with Bill looking over their shoulders and looked overmatched when leaving NE.

That’s what EB looked like to me here in 2023.
 
Bulldog said:
I still don’t understand the fascination with EB.

If we took names out of it and I told you we had the chance to hire a 55 year old coach as OC who had called plays for ONE year in the NFL and that was on a 4-13 team that lead the league in attempts and interceptions.

What would the response be?

My guess is there wouldn’t be a lot of support for that hire.

For some reason the fact EB carried a clipboard for Andy Reid for 5 years has some folks here mesmerized by the thought there was some transference there that has not yet been recognized.

But that phenomenon seems only to have hit some fans here. No one on 30 other teams or their fans are clamoring for EB.

Beyond the OC arguments which at least refer back to what EB did or didn’t do in 2023, the further argument some were having that he would be a good HEAD COACH candidate just has me shaking my head.

The NFL road is littered with assistants who were hired as HC because they sat at the feet of greatness. The golden dust rarely transfers.

EB working for Reid in Reid’s system where Reid calls the plays shows what exactly?

If Reid was a defensive coach and the Chiefs had sustained success with an offense that was largely an EB created scheme where he calls the plays, then in that circumstance I would say he has shown his work can stand on its own for him to take that experience forward.

The NFL is littered with the ghosts of former Belichick defensive assistants who implemented his system with Bill looking over their shoulders and looked overmatched when leaving NE.

That’s what EB looked like to me here in 2023.
Click to expand...

I think what you're missing though is that we can't blame EB for 2023 - if he didn't have any good luck he wouldn't have any bad luck at all.
 
I just read the Coaching Career section on Kingsbury’s Wiki. Talk about a cautionary tale.
 
Don’t agree. You adapt scheme to talent and get the most out of your players.

I have never seen a coach come out and put a #5 pick in the kind of offense EB was trying to run right out of the gate.

There is no way I let EB anywhere near a rookie quarterback taken at #2 overall.

Again, I don’t think he took on enough responsibility in KC to be credited with their success.

He was an implementer not a creator.

EB to me is analogous to Matt Patricia.

Patricia actually did get to call plays before taking the Lions job, but he’s another guy that a HOF coach utilized to keep in place what he had already been successful with.
 
Let's look at Kingsbury's years in Arizona where he served as HC/Offensive Coordinator.

First of all in Steve Wilks last season, the offense was in shambles with Josh Rosen, Sam Bradford, and Mike Glennon all getting starts. They were last in the league in yards and points with a 3-13 record. Enter Kingsbury.

In 2019, the Cardinals offense was 16th in points, 21st in yards in Kyler Murrays rookie season, going 5-10-1.
In 2020, the Cardinals offense was 13th in points, 6th in yards, going 8-8.
In 2021, the Cardinals offense was 11th in points, 8th in yards, going 11-6 and losing to McVay's Rams in the Wildcard.
In 2022, the team took a step back The Cardinals offense was 21st in points, 22nd in yards, going 4-13 and Kingsbury is sent packing.

Washington's offense finished 2023 25th in points, 24th in yards.

Overall, I'd say Kingsbury's NFL #'s look pretty good given what he was working with and playing in the NFC West with 3 very tough opponents in San Fran, LA Rams, and Seattle. Surprisingly, during Kingsbury's 4 year NFL run, his rushing offense finished top 10 in yards 3/4 seasons, his passing offense finished top 10 in yards passing just once.
 
Bulldog said:
Don’t agree. You adapt scheme to talent and get the most out of your players.

I have never seen a coach come out and put a #5 pick in the kind of offense EB was trying to run right out of the gate.

There is no way I let EB anywhere near a rookie quarterback taken at #2 overall.

Again, I don’t think he took on enough responsibility in KC to be credited with their success.

He was an implementer not a creator.

EB to me is analogous to Matt Patricia.

Patricia actually did get to call plays before taking the Lions job, but he’s another guy that a HOF coach utilized to keep in place what he had already been successful with.
Click to expand...

Bulldog - have another cup of coffee - that was a joke because Bienemy has used that line 100 times.
 
Chris said:
I just read the Coaching Career section on Kingsbury’s Wiki. Talk about a cautionary tale.
Click to expand...

You talking about him bailing on USC to take the Cardinals HC job?
 
Kingsbury as Arizona HC-

2019- Despite a 3–3–1 start, Kingsbury led the Cardinals to a record of 2–7 down the stretch, finishing the season 5–10–1 and 4th in the NFC West.

2020- Kingsbury and the Cardinals would suffer a late-season collapse as they would go 2–5 over their final seven games and finish with an 8–8.

2021- After starting the season 10–2 and 1st in the NFC West, Kingsbury and the Cardinals would suffer another late-season collapse as the team ultimately finished 2nd in the NFC West with an 11–6 regular season record.

2022- After an offseason with great expectations, Kingsbury led the Cardinals to a record of 4–13, their worst record since Kingsbury arrived in Arizona.

Kingsbury was fired on January 9, 2023. He finished his tenure with the Cardinals with a 28–37–1 record with only one playoff appearance.

Granted these are his results as a HC. Could we hire him as OC for only the 1st half of the season?
 
Boone said:
You talking about him bailing on USC to take the Cardinals HC job?
Click to expand...

That along with the recent Raiders situation. Looks like a pattern and makes me suspicious that he might be a tad flaky. (Or Ben Johnson-like)
 
No, I am not irate just very confused about the real discussion 😳

The EB drama started a number of years ago when a number of columnists such as Kevin Blackistone commented that EB wasn’t getting interviews and/or jobs because he was black and there was still an institutional bias at work in the NFL against his candidacy.

Jump forward to 2023 and 2024 when quite a number of coordinator and HC opportunities are being filled by minority candidates.

EB is still getting no play.

That tells me something.

The question I have now is how come Raheem Morris received the kind of play he did in this cycle and was hired off a Super Bowl season in 2021 with McVay in LA?

IMO it is because Morris is more relatable to today’s players AND he is viewed as the principal play caller and architect of the defense.

EB isn’t viewed that way.
 
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