Burner's Burning Questions: Free Agency, Mocks, Camps, OTAs, Roster Predictions, 2020

One of many experimental iterations ...

Bulldog

The All-Time Great
Joined
Jul 19, 2009
Messages
15,234
Reaction score
195
Points
343
Location
Bethesda Md


Thompson was one of the Gruden butt boys on the team. He seemed personally offended when Jay was fired.

The annual problem for Thompson is getting hurt at the first tackle of the season.
 

Kel Varnsen

2019 BGO Ballers Champ
Joe Gibbs Club Member
Joined
Oct 5, 2010
Messages
2,183
Reaction score
116
Points
63
Location
Kernersville, NC

High Point

I have zero issues with Thompson. He played his heart out and played very well when healthy. I just wish he could have been healthy more often.

I did not like seeing him getting the ball on 3rd and short to plow up the middle. It worked some times and didn’t work other times. But the fact the coach didn’t realize the toll it took on his body and the injury risk for an oft injured back always bothered me. He was best used in space and there were too many times where they thought they could outsmart the other team by giving him the ball like he was a power back.
 

Boone

GM
Staff member
Joined
Apr 11, 2009
Messages
39,920
Reaction score
1,013
Points
2,044
Location
Greensboro, NC

Marine Corps Virginia

Gruden was a solid offensive coach. He just failed miserably in a lot of other areas - #1 being finding a good DC. His act got old, and I know there were a lot of issues, soft practices, stubbornness with some players, just to name a few. But offense, when we had reasonably healthy starters in, was really never the problem. I think when a fanbase has 'had it' with a coach, it takes time to make a fair assessment. He did lead us to some decent seasons... He did get us to the playoffs and likely would have again in 2017 if not for the Smith injury. Sad thing? Gruden' did as well as any coach other than Shanahan and Gibbs over the past 30 years. That's less an endorsement of Gruden than it is an indictment of the coaches we've hired.
 

Bulldog

The All-Time Great
Joined
Jul 19, 2009
Messages
15,234
Reaction score
195
Points
343
Location
Bethesda Md


Jay is the prototypical assistant.

He lacks the cojones to lead a full team and is more comfortable dealing with Xs and Os and leaving discipline to others.
 

Elephant

The Commissioner
Joe Gibbs Club Member
Joined
Aug 1, 2009
Messages
24,720
Reaction score
368
Points
1,113

Florida State

Jay is the prototypical assistant.

He lacks the cojones to lead a full team and is more comfortable dealing with Xs and Os and leaving discipline to others.
This is how I, and many others see it. I think Neo hit the nail on the head too, he outsmarted himself.

When I watched his games, on pass plays, there was almost always someone open. Now, whether the QB was incapable of making the progression because he lacked vision, or the OL could not give him the time was another story.

Gruden just doesn't have the mentality to be a HC, as BD mentioned.
 

Boone

GM
Staff member
Joined
Apr 11, 2009
Messages
39,920
Reaction score
1,013
Points
2,044
Location
Greensboro, NC

Marine Corps Virginia

I guess I’m pushing back some on the suggestion that Chris Thompson’s problem was a Jay Gruden. It wasn’t. When he was healthy Hruden had him one of the most productive pass-catching RBs for a season+. He got hurt and struggle to get open and be the same player he was before.

Again, when we had healthy pieces Gruden offenses moved the ball and were in most games.

it wasn’t ALL bad is my point.
 

Bulldog

The All-Time Great
Joined
Jul 19, 2009
Messages
15,234
Reaction score
195
Points
343
Location
Bethesda Md


But it rarely performed well in big games, not that Washington was in that many over his term.

That 2016 loss to the Giants when they were resting starters and cost a playoff spot hurt.

The team came out flat and didn’t put forward the kind of effort the situation required.

The home playoff game against Green Bay in 2015 was a disaster, the Redskins failed to maintain drives against the Packers and some of the few points we managed were scored by the defense.
 

SilentThreat

The Franchise Player
Joe Gibbs Club Member
Joined
Oct 8, 2009
Messages
4,814
Reaction score
176
Points
93
Location
Ashburn, Va


I guess I’m pushing back some on the suggestion that Chris Thompson’s problem was a Jay Gruden. It wasn’t. When he was healthy Hruden had him one of the most productive pass-catching RBs for a season+. He got hurt and struggle to get open and be the same player he was before.

Again, when we had healthy pieces Gruden offenses moved the ball and were in most games.

it wasn’t ALL bad is my point.

Boone, I love ya brother, but I can't sign off on this.

Gruden does have a productive SCHEME. He can draw up plays, he can scheme guys open, all of that is true. The problem is on gameday, he either got arrogant, or he panicked. Chris Thompson was a VERY effective weapon and Gruden realized it, so he, at times, abused him. He used to run screens to Peterson and Thompson off tackle. I remember losing my mind when Thompson broke his ankle, because the play call was so frustrating given the situation. We were up 17-13, it was 3rd and short (if I remember correctly), and we motioned Thompson out wide. Kirk dropped back and NO was able to pin their ears back (iirc) and Kirk was forced to run around to escape, he broke the pocket and ran to Thompson's side and they all got tangled up, ultimately a D-lineman rolled up on CT's leg, breaking it.

Later that game was the fateful 3rd and 1 from our side of the field and we ran straight into the strong side of their defense with a loaded box.

He was one of the most productive pass catching RBs, but his career may have been cut short because the situations he was put in at times took an undersized weapon in some very compromising positions.
 

Boone

GM
Staff member
Joined
Apr 11, 2009
Messages
39,920
Reaction score
1,013
Points
2,044
Location
Greensboro, NC

Marine Corps Virginia

We're just going to have go agree to disagree. I have bitched on occasion about using CT as a standard RB rather than the pass-catching shifty guy he is, running up the gut. On the other hand, he IS a RB and you need to be able to do both. I think that mostly happened after the injuries when CT just wasn't as fast or elusive. I think that had something to do with them using him less in the passing game, he wasn't getting open as easily. As far as cherry picking plays to lay the blame on Gruden for him getting injured, if we're going to lay responsibility on something other than CTs general lack of durability, I think I'd fault Cousins who was a master at completing a dink and dunk to a guy who had defenders bearing down about to take his head off.

I'm not giving Gruden a pass on anything, even on offense. I'm just trying to balance the 'Gruden sucked' narrative which makes it sound like he was the worst coach we ever had, and did nothing competently. That's not true.
 

SilentThreat

The Franchise Player
Joe Gibbs Club Member
Joined
Oct 8, 2009
Messages
4,814
Reaction score
176
Points
93
Location
Ashburn, Va


I didn't say he did nothing competently. I said he was very good schematically. He schemes players open. Like others I believe he is a very good OC. I just think he's got a major issue being a HC. Port of that issue had an effect on multiple players, CT being one of them. This year will be interesting to see how we use Gibson, because I believe they are similar STYLE players... Gibson being a bit bigger. I am also interested in CT is used in Jax with scheme from Jay, but the HC ultimately overseeing how he utilized in the offense. My assumption is CT will be used a lot more in space, and very VERY rarely between the guards. I know you mentioned that CT is an RB and has to be able to do both, but there are times when CT is not the best tool in the box. When it's 3rd and 2 with 12 personnel, having CT be the guy to run HB Slam when you have Adrian Peterson or Samaje Perine on the bench. When it's 2nd and 7 and you want to run draw, or counter and keep CT on the inside, that's a whole different conversation.
 

Boone

GM
Staff member
Joined
Apr 11, 2009
Messages
39,920
Reaction score
1,013
Points
2,044
Location
Greensboro, NC

Marine Corps Virginia

Sorry - wasn't implying YOU were doing that. I think it's just a general fan tendency. When things are going well, we overact, when things go badly we overreact. And Redskins fans are really bad about demonizing individuals when things turn out badly. RG3 is a good example on the player side. Jim Zorn and Steve Spurrier examples on the coaching side. Gruden, despite his many faults, had more success than any modern coaches other than Gibbs and Shanahan. No - it wasn't good enough and I'm glad we finally moved on.

I will argue to my grave that had Gruden's teams not had literally mind-blowing injury rates, his legacy as a Redskins coach might be a lot more positive. One of the few things I give Gruden credit for is holding those injury-ravaged teams (3 seasons in a row) together and being within striking distance of a playoff spot despite having guys off the street playing in many positions.

I'm not discounting the specific criticism of how CT was used - since I had it myself. But I think the big issue with CT is simply him not having the build to sustain a lot of NFL hits.
 

Burgundy Burner

Coaching Staff
Staff member
Joined
Oct 1, 2009
Messages
23,852
Reaction score
246
Points
1,093
Location
Memphis, TN

Virginia

Taking a break this week from BBQ stuff and RR. I'll be back at it next week. Having a little bit of a burnout, but things will get rolling again very soon.
 

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Total: 1, Members: 0, Guests: 1)

Private conversations
Help Users
    You haven't joined any rooms.
    Chat 0
    Top