Abercrombie Admits There Are No Obama Birth Records In Hawaii

[fansince62]

No, because the director of the Hawaii State Department of Health says it's squashed, and because the governor of Hawaii says it's squashed it is.

You may choose to think they are lying. I do not. See no reason for a GOP governor to make up such an enormous lie to protect a Democrat Presidential candidate. It doesn't make sense.

If it does to you, well, I suppose we are at an impasse.

In any case, nothing posted in this thread sheds new light on this subject. Other than perhaps someone made stuff up about Obama and Abercrombie to make it look like Obama's not really a citizen.

what? the State Obama vacations in and calls home? I'm simply shocked, shocked, shocked!!!!!

 

[fansince62]

Wow, this is huge!!!

I want to read more. The only sources I could find using a quick Google search were:

The Examiner- National Conservative News, Rush Limbaugh.com, World Net Daily, Patriot Update, Free Republic, and InfoWars.

Can someone point me to any more balanced news sources than those to review. Considering that this is such a potentially explosive issue it must surely be being investigated by more.

let's cut to the quick.....why doesn't the man release his records? I found the matter silly at first. but there is too much that has been hidden or simply not addressed. his whole MO is to gloss over the facts with this oily veil of rhetoric and lofty pap. we've seen his schtick one too many times - major cross sections of the population no longer trust the man.

HE'S NOT BELIEVABLE. WHO TRUSTS HIM?

 

[fansince62]

To be honest...I think this is a President out of ideas and in over his head. Who's the real Pres now? Obama or Clinton '96?

 

[Henry]

So I guess some of you actually are birthers. And actually think that there is some vast Hawaiian racist conspiracy to get one of their own in the White House. That Obama is guilty until proven innocent. That 'why don't you just answer the question' is proof of something (like Loose Change who thinks that the government's unwillingness to release security camera footage of the plane hitting the pentagon is proof that a plane didn't hit it at all)

I honestly didn't realize so many of you were into this stuff. Learn something new every day I guess.

Well, keep on fighting The Man. I won't try and stop you. But I will repeat that beyond the re-hashed points argued over the past two years, the startling new 'proof' in the video posted in the OP is bunk, and so far the only person actually caught lying is the guy claiming the governor said he couldn't find the documentation.

So I'm not really sure why we're still talking about this.
Posted via BGO Mobile Device

 

[Sarge]

So I guess some of you actually are birthers. And actually think that there is some vast Hawaiian racist conspiracy to get one of their own in the White House. That Obama is guilty until proven innocent. That 'why don't you just answer the question' is proof of something (like Loose Change who thinks that the government's unwillingness to release security camera footage of the plane hitting the pentagon is proof that a plane didn't hit it at all)

I honestly didn't realize so many of you were into this stuff. Learn something new every day I guess.

Well, keep on fighting The Man. I won't try and stop you. But I will repeat that beyond the re-hashed points argued over the past two years, the startling new 'proof' in the video posted in the OP is bunk, and so far the only person actually caught lying is the guy claiming the governor said he couldn't find the documentation.

So I'm not really sure why we're still talking about this.
Posted via BGO Mobile Device

Because you have not answered the question.

Why the difference in the birth certificates?

Why won't Obama release one that looks like that?

Every time someone asks this question and tries to pin down an answer, the thinly vieled cry of "racist" comes out to deflect from the original question

Explain the difference

 

[fansince62]

So I guess some of you actually are birthers. And actually think that there is some vast Hawaiian racist conspiracy to get one of their own in the White House. That Obama is guilty until proven innocent. That 'why don't you just answer the question' is proof of something (like Loose Change who thinks that the government's unwillingness to release security camera footage of the plane hitting the pentagon is proof that a plane didn't hit it at all)

I honestly didn't realize so many of you were into this stuff. Learn something new every day I guess.

Well, keep on fighting The Man. I won't try and stop you. But I will repeat that beyond the re-hashed points argued over the past two years, the startling new 'proof' in the video posted in the OP is bunk, and so far the only person actually caught lying is the guy claiming the governor said he couldn't find the documentation.

So I'm not really sure why we're still talking about this.
Posted via BGO Mobile Device

cheap shot that is beneath you. I didn't read anyone to be claiming to be a birther. I read people asking the obvious - show us a valid record....just like any of us would have to in much less demanding circumstances. I did read the expected retort - one surely must be a racist if he/she expects definitive proof. where's your rejoinder to that slander?

I'll restate my own pov. I don't care much about this issue. The man is Prez and he isn't going away - at least for 2 more years.

I simply don't trust him. I also think the facts are increasingly bearing testament to his incompetence.

 

[Henry]

Because you have not answered the question.

Why the difference in the birth certificates?

Why won't Obama release one that looks like that?

Every time someone asks this question and tries to pin down an answer, the thinly vieled cry of "racist" comes out to deflect from the original question

Explain the difference

Sarge, you just labeled an entire state racist to rationalize your position so you can save your righteous indignation.

Maybe Obama doesn't have his original copy anymore. I don't have mine either but my citizenship has never been questioned.

I don't really care. The state he was born in validated his claim. The people legally required to see the super-special birth certificate saw it. Unless you want to call a whole bunch of people liars to justify your suspicion, there's really nothing to debate.
Posted via BGO Mobile Device

 

[Henry]

cheap shot that is beneath you. I didn't read anyone to be claiming to be a birther. I read people asking the obvious - show us a valid record....just like any of us would have to in much less demanding circumstances. I did read the expected retort - one surely must be a racist if he/she expects definitive proof. where's your rejoinder to that slander?

I'll restate my own pov. I don't care much about this issue. The man is Prez and he isn't going away - at least for 2 more years.

I simply don't trust him. I also think the facts are increasingly bearing testament to his incompetence.

Not a shot. Just an observation.

'Answer my question or you've got something to hide' is the bread-and-butter of the conspiracy theorist.

I understand some people don't trust him. Hell, I'm not his biggest fan (I just seem like it here because I'm apparently one of only three people on this board that doesn't utterly hate him). But you'd have to distrust a whole hell of a lot more people to believe he faked his citizenship. You'd have to believe in a conspiracy ...
Posted via BGO Mobile Device

 

[fansince62]

Sarge...there are two sets of rules: those for Obama...and those for the rest of us.

This whole birth certificate thing is a sideshow. Let's change the subject and get to what really matters - this guy is leading us down the road to ruination. And he is doing so basically because he has a fundamental belief that people...left to their own devices...cannot act responsibly; our society is riven with injustice and unpaid historical debts. Government has to be the arbiter of all moral, economic and scientific truth.

 

[fansince62]

Not a shot. Just an observation.

'Answer my question or you've got something to hide' is the bread-and-butter of the conspiracy theorist.

I understand some people don't trust him. Hell, I'm not his biggest fan (I just seem like it here because I'm apparently one of only three people on this board that doesn't utterly hate him). But you'd have to distrust a whole hell of a lot more people to believe he faked his citizenship. You'd have to believe in a conspiracy ...
Posted via BGO Mobile Device

I buy that argument. it's unfortunate that there are many other aspects of his past that have also been clouded. but even that is secondary IMO. there are more important issues to focus on.

the immediate issue...over the next two years.....is deciding whether this man can lead the country out of difficult times. I happen to believe that he is completely overmatched for the challenge. doubly sad, then, that he might yet win reelection because...to date...the candidate list on the other side isn't dignified by any real alternatives who would make punting the 2008 victor a certainty.

somewhere along the line I passed through my anger about all of this. all I care about now is the future my daughter inherits. and a fading hope for a comfortable retirement for my wife and I.

It's not all Obama's fault. The present predictament is the accumulated result of decades of excess. He just has a set of of ideas and instincts that are incongruous with what this historical moment demands....IMO. I really believe he is detached somewhat from reality.

 

[Henry]

Well, I can't disagree with pretty much any of that.
Posted via BGO Mobile Device

 

[Boone]

The best analogy to this 'controversy' (not necessarily based on whether there's something to the citizenship concerns, but in terms of how much attention it is being paid vs. what it deserves) is the Clinton blow-job fiasco.

What would the Republicans do if there was significant evidence Obama was not born in the United States? Start impeachment proceedings? Seriously??? Is that what we need our govt to focus on for the next 2 years?

I suspect if all of the facts were out there, Henry would be proven right - that there's nothing to the speculation - but even if there was substance to some of these suspicions, it really doesn't matter at this point, and a witch hunt like we saw during Clinton's downward spiral isn't productive in any way. The man is President. I assume he's a naturalized US citizen until proven otherwise. My issue with him is that he is ineffective, doesn't demonstrate either vision or the ability to lead. He's not the guy to tackle the problems we have right now.

Simple.

And I'll say something else I never thought I would say. I truly wish Hilary Clinton had gotten the nomination if we were going to have a Democrat in the White House. She is the model of a competent, common-sense and disciplined civil servant compared to Obama.

 

[Elephant]

Well first of all, I asserted nothing. I simply put it out there, that its potentially a matter of race. And you cannot tell me that it is foolish to postulate that race may be involved. Maybe you've got blinders on, but racism is alive and well in this country.



Oh, I must have missed the press conferences in which the other president's fathers presented their birth certificates. My bad.

Let me just say, I think Obama is a citizen, but his upbringing is unique to any President dating back to the early part of the 20th Century as far as his citizenship goes since he has a father who was never a citizen of this nation. That is enough to warrant proof of citizenship.

I mean, when you get a job, you are required to prove citizenship. His job simply requires a little more proof. I am not saying he did not prove it, I am simply wondering why it is still a lingering issue when it does not have to be.

So yes, it is foolish to bring race into it! This is a unique President. He hails from a background that is questionable.

 

[Elephant]

The best analogy to this 'controversy' (not necessarily based on whether there's something to the citizenship concerns, but in terms of how much attention it is being paid vs. what it deserves) is the Clinton blow-job fiasco.

What would the Republicans do if there was significant evidence Obama was not born in the United States? Start impeachment proceedings? Seriously??? Is that what we need our govt to focus on for the next 2 years?

I suspect if all of the facts were out there, Henry would be proven right - that there's nothing to the speculation - but even if there was substance to some of these suspicions, it really doesn't matter at this point, and a witch hunt like we saw during Clinton's downward spiral isn't productive in any way. The man is President. I assume he's a naturalized US citizen until proven otherwise. My issue with him is that he is ineffective, doesn't demonstrate either vision or the ability to lead. He's not the guy to tackle the problems we have right now.

Simple.

And I'll say something else I never thought I would say. I truly wish Hilary Clinton had gotten the nomination if we were going to have a Democrat in the White House. She is the model of a competent, common-sense and disciplined civil servant compared to Obama.

I will have to question the analogy. I cannot sit here and tell you the whole Kenneth Starr situation was not a witch hunt, but lost in all of that is the fact that under oath, the President of the United States committed a felony. Whether you agree he should have been deposed or not, he perjured himself under oath. It is a felony. If you or I lied under oath you better believe there would have been consequences.

 

[fansince62]

The best analogy to this 'controversy' (not necessarily based on whether there's something to the citizenship concerns, but in terms of how much attention it is being paid vs. what it deserves) is the Clinton blow-job fiasco.

What would the Republicans do if there was significant evidence Obama was not born in the United States? Start impeachment proceedings? Seriously??? Is that what we need our govt to focus on for the next 2 years?

I suspect if all of the facts were out there, Henry would be proven right - that there's nothing to the speculation - but even if there was substance to some of these suspicions, it really doesn't matter at this point, and a witch hunt like we saw during Clinton's downward spiral isn't productive in any way. The man is President. I assume he's a naturalized US citizen until proven otherwise. My issue with him is that he is ineffective, doesn't demonstrate either vision or the ability to lead. He's not the guy to tackle the problems we have right now.

Simple.

And I'll say something else I never thought I would say. I truly wish Hilary Clinton had gotten the nomination if we were going to have a Democrat in the White House. She is the model of a competent, common-sense and disciplined civil servant compared to Obama.

you had me right up to the Hillary part!

- I agree she would have done better than Obama...though I'm not sure. She would have been just as tempted with control over both houses of COngress to ram through the 50 year wish list.

- Her performance as SEC State has not been noteworthy. In fact, I would say it's been average to poor. recall how badly she handled the events in Central America early on? what has she done to prevent Syria in Lebanon? What has she done to influence Russian cooperation with the Iranians? What has she succeeded at in brokering a ME peace? what has she succeeded at in mollifying North Korean sabre rattling? How has she influenced Chines policy to the favor/security of the united States? We'll put aside that she can't even police her own traffic... ..

- I do agree she would have flexed much faster than Obama. He, IMO, has a singular virtue and critical flaw -> he is wedded to his vision/ideology and will go down in flames fighting for it. HC, on the other hand, has the interests and survival of HC at the top of her priority list. That has been the singular flaw of the Clintons all along in the minds of many. Her instincts are to adapt to changed circumstances more quickly if they are a threat to her power.

- Like her husband...she has some real character flaws. There is persistent anecdotal evidence that she can be a vicious enemy who seeks to destroy people who oppose her agenda.

- Sorry...but as the father of a 12 year old daughter who may one day want to work in the political arena (God forbid)...Clinton committed sexual harassment inside a taxpayer funded space. He then lied about it to a Grand Jury and was disbarred. BJs for Joe average and the President of the United States are worlds apart in moral significance. He was in the leadership position - that one act undercut all moral legitimacy for his office during the remainder of his Presidency. (it's only passing amusement that the feminist movement all but abandoned a woman who was victim of a workplace power relationship). HE IS A MORAL SCUMBAG - but because the Left favors intentions over laws....his "persona" has been resuscitated.

 

[Sarge]

Sarge, you just labeled an entire state racist to rationalize your position so you can save your righteous indignation.

Maybe Obama doesn't have his original copy anymore. I don't have mine either but my citizenship has never been questioned.

I don't really care. The state he was born in validated his claim. The people legally required to see the super-special birth certificate saw it. Unless you want to call a whole bunch of people liars to justify your suspicion, there's really nothing to debate.
Posted via BGO Mobile Device

Henry, did you know there is an island south of Kauia called Niiahu where no white people are allowed? Now of course this isn't written into law, but no one will take you there if you're white. It's for Hawaiians only.

Did you know there a school in Hawaii, set up by the Queen, that up until they were sued in the mid 00's was for Hawaiians only? No whites, no nothing unless you have Hawaiian blood. Look up Kamehameha Schools, see what you see.

The whole of the west side of Oahau is a "Kick whitey out of our country" area . If they could figure out how to sustain themselves making coconut bras an grass skirts, they'd probalby succeed from the US.

Ask John, he was there

But do you think anything like that would fly here in the mainland? Could you imagine a county that said "No blacks here"? You and I both know what would happen


However, I don't think the whole place is racist. But there is an underlying current of it, well hidden from the tourist of course.

Another underlying current is pride on famous people from the islands. Right out in the airport is a giant display of athletes (Kurt Guevia (sp) was from there I think) and such. Of course, nothing wrong with that. But they do protect their own. And while most know Obama lived in Indonesia, they claim him as their own.


Again, I'm not saying that the whole place is racist. But it would not shock me in the least that a Democrat (And the whole stae is as blue as Mass or Vermont) would protect or even flat out lie about his status.

I don't really care.

This is the sad part right here

 

[Sarge]

What would the Republicans do if there was significant evidence Obama was not born in the United States? Start impeachment proceedings? Seriously??? Is that what we need our govt to focus on for the next 2 years?

My issue with him is that he is ineffective, doesn't demonstrate either vision or the ability to lead. He's not the guy to tackle the problems we have right now.

Simple.

And I'll say something else I never thought I would say. I truly wish Hilary Clinton had gotten the nomination if we were going to have a Democrat in the White House. She is the model of a competent, common-sense and disciplined civil servant compared to Obama.

I have considered what would happen if it was found he didn't have a birth certificate. It would be a bloody mess. Even worse, it'd leave the idiot Joe Bite Me in charge.


And yes, God save my soul from eternal damnation for saying this, but this cat makes Bill and even Hillary look ...............well............somewhat appealing.

 

[Lanky Livingston]

Oh I know all of that. But let me tell you a little story. I laid it out on aother site three years ago and got called racist and everything else. But no onewas bothered to look at the facts because they were caught up drinking long sips of kool aid

When I retired I went to register Sarge Jr in school. I gathered up all his stuff, shot records, birth certificate etc. Everything the web site said to bring I brought.

When I was standing in the school office handing over documents, the lady asked for my son's birth certificate, and I handed it over. The lady said, "Can't take that" and I looked at her and said "Why not?". She said "We need your son's birth certificate. THAT is a certificate of LIVE BIRTH"

At that point I learned that they are two separate things. THey would not take the certificate of live birth for school registration. So I had to go all the way home and dig out his BIRTH CETIFICATE.

I'm sorry you had a run-in with an uninformed school administrative assistant, but they are one and the same. "Birth Certificate" and "Certificate of Live Birth" are the same piece of paper. Please don't let her ignorance cloud your judgement.

Henry, did you know there is an island south of Kauia called Niiahu where no white people are allowed? Now of course this isn't written into law, but no one will take you there if you're white. It's for Hawaiians only.

Did you know there a school in Hawaii, set up by the Queen, that up until they were sued in the mid 00's was for Hawaiians only? No whites, no nothing unless you have Hawaiian blood. Look up Kamehameha Schools, see what you see.

Molokai is like that also - they are small, underdeveloped islands where Hawaiian culture is dominant. You do realize we forcefully took over the Hawaiian islands not terribly long ago, right? We are uninvited guests there?

The whole of the west side of Oahau is a "Kick whitey out of our country" area . If they could figure out how to sustain themselves making coconut bras an grass skirts, they'd probalby succeed from the US.

This is just nonsense - the West side is less developed, so there is more crime and such, but its not like there are race riots if a white person goes to Yokohama Bay or something. Makaha resort is one of the more exclusive resorts on the whole island.

I agree there is some racism in Hawaii - but as I pointed out, we are uninvited guests there. And there is a lot more racism in mainland cities also (BOTH directions).

 

[fansince62]

uninvited guests? well that covers pretty much all of Europe, South America, North America, Asia, Africa....man o man......what's a citizen to do?

 

[Sarge]

I'm sorry you had a run-in with an uninformed school administrative assistant, but they are one and the same. "Birth Certificate" and "Certificate of Live Birth" are the same piece of paper. Please don't let her ignorance cloud your judgement.


No, they are not. Believe me, I was pissed to have to go all the way back to the house to get a birth certificate. When all was said and done I called the school board........who told me the same thing. Va state schools will not take a certificate of live birth for initial registration

Molokai is like that also - they are small, underdeveloped islands where Hawaiian culture is dominant. You do realize we forcefully took over the Hawaiian islands not terribly long ago, right? We are uninvited guests there?

Molikai is to a degree. But not like Niiahu. No whites. Period. How's that work in the United States?

And yes, we gave them a raw deal, and I feel bad for it. But if it hadn't been us it would have been the Japanese or Austrailians. Or maybe the Brits would have kept it

This is just nonsense - the West side is less developed, so there is more crime and such, but its not like there are race riots if a white person goes to Yokohama Bay or something. Makaha resort is one of the more exclusive resorts on the whole island.

Yeah, been to Waianae? Nankuli? No whitey zones

I agree there is some racism in Hawaii - but as I pointed out, we are uninvited guests there. And there is a lot more racism in mainland cities also (BOTH directions).

Some racism? OK haole