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Cousins

Om said:
I have to ask....do you think Shanahan went into this draft planning to draft another QB as early as round 4, or that, as he said to Cousins, when the man was there at #102, he "couldn't pass him up" because of the clear value? Should we have gone "need" there even if it meant passing up good value and reaching for need?

Why do we as fans think we have a better handle on that than the guy putting together the roster?
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I happen to agree with the BPA approach; however if you just traded 4 picks for the rights to your next franchise QB, I think you have to slightly adjust that approach and get the best value you possibly can. I don't think QB in the 4th round was the best possible value.

If Alameda Ta'amu anchors the Steelers' defensive line for the next 10 years, the Shanahans should kick themselves every single day.
 
Henry said:
I think where we disagree, and correct me if I'm wrong here, is that you think we deserve some benefit of the doubt the same way some other teams do.

I don't think that. We don't deserve it until we earn it.
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No sir. Unlike just about everyone else I've seen/heard/read on this since the pick was made, I haven't felt the need to declare it either moronic OR genius. I think it was interesting, and caught me by surprise, but my first reaction wasn't to either revel or rail, it was to start breaking down all the angles. I'm still doing that. :)
 
CT, anyone who criticizes SNYDER for this move is an idiot. It has Shanahan and Allen written all over it.

Other than that I can't agree that the move makes a ton of sense, or that the rest of the world should think it does simply because we can rip off a litany of excuses for past suckage.
 
Oh and to further support Om et al...

The Colts also drafted another QB and are in much more desperate need of bodies to fill holes than we are. Yet not a peep from folks about that and in all likelihood that guy won't make thier team and it was a completely wasted pick. It's just bullhockey.
 
CounterTrey said:
Nope Lanky not at all. They got lucky with Brady....no other way around that. They don't luck into the guy in the 6th and they are still the craptacular team they were before he got there. Same with the Colts. I think both of those FO's get a lot more credit for being cerebral than they deserve. Good fortune smiles on both. If they thought Brady was such great shakes they would have drafted him first.
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I agree the Brady pick was lucky, but I don't think its really fair to say they'd have been the same craptacular team without making the pick. We have no idea what would happen.
 
CounterTrey said:
Oh and to further support Om et al...

The Colts also drafted another QB and are in much more desperate need of bodies to fill holes than we are. Yet not a peep from folks about that and in all likelihood that guy won't make thier team and it was a completely wasted pick. It's just bullhockey.
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They took a QB in the 7th round, totally different animal. Not to mention, they earned the #1 overall pick with their crappy play; the Redskins sold the farm to get to the #2 pick.
 
Om said:
No sir. Unlike just about everyone else I've seen/heard/read on this since the pick was made, I haven't felt the need to declare it either moronic OR genius. I think it was interesting, and caught me by surprise, but my first reaction wasn't to either revel or rail, it was to start breaking down all the angles. I'm still doing that. :)
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I'm more like Lanky on this.

I initially didn't like it. I tried to like it. I hate it. :)

Overall though I did like our draft. One pick won't make or break it (well, outside the Griffin pick.) But since this thread is specifically about Cousins ... I don't like it.
 
Lanky Livingston said:
I happen to agree with the BPA approach; however if you just traded 4 picks for the rights to your next franchise QB, I think you have to slightly adjust that approach and get the best value you possibly can. I don't think QB in the 4th round was the best possible value.

If Alameda Ta'amu anchors the Steelers' defensive line for the next 10 years, the Shanahans should kick themselves every single day.
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We traded 3 picks. We swapped 1. :)

The Shanahan's thought Cousins was a better value for this team, right now, than Ta'amu at #102. I like their intel on that better than I like yours. Nothing personal.

And....if Ta'amu ends up being just a guy, and Cousins ends up winning a handful of key games for us while RG3 mends now and again over the next few years, then nets us a 1st or 2nd or maybe more in trade, and goes on to a HOF (or even Pro Bowl) career with some other team, should the Steelers be kicking themselves every single day?
 
Yea But Henry the problem is in order to dog our FO for past suckage they go back much more than 2 years. If they were merely criticizing the last 2 years then fine but that isn't the case at all. The only ones not doing that are giving us things like B grades for the draft and recognizing the fact that we need a whole new squad of QB's, not just one.

The other thing is this was a freakin 4th rounder, not a 2nd or even a 3rd. People act like we gave up a top ten pick for this guy instead of using the EXTRA pick we got in the trade down with Pittsburgh to acquire this guy. WE had 9 freakin draft picks and people act like we had 4. I would also submit that at this stage and in the 4th there is no one else we could have gotten that was a bigger need than replacing John Freakin Beck. QB was our biggest need top to bottom and I've been clamoring for O line and CB help for years just like many others.
 
Henry said:
I'm more like Lanky on this.

I initially didn't like it. I tried to like it. I hate it. :)

Overall though I did like our draft. One pick won't make or break it (well, outside the Griffin pick.) But since this thread is specifically about Cousins ... I don't like it.
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I see that. :)

As a QB Theory guy, I ascribe higher value to having 2 competent QB's on the roster than most. I get that. So at this point, if you put a water pistol to my head and made me pick a side, I'd say I'm leaning toward like. Not smitten, but intrigued.
 
Lanky Livingston said:
I agree the Brady pick was lucky, but I don't think its really fair to say they'd have been the same craptacular team without making the pick. We have no idea what would happen.
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Yea we do. We saw what they were with Bledsoe and for a while Cassell...they weren't a SB team. I'll stick by it, no Brady and they have zero rings the last decade and a half. Belichick is VASTLY overrated IMO, same with Polian.
 
I don't know CT. A lot of what I'm reading are people giving us decent overall grades but wondering why we picked Cousins. That's pretty much where I am.
 
this just in: great coaches need great players to accomplish great things. simply being a great coach isn't all thats required to win a superbowl.
 
I'm not sure what folks want out of this anymore.

We drafted 2 interior linemen and 1 tackle to go with a group from last year where we went 8 or 9 deep by the end of the year and you can argue that the group got better as the year went on. All the injured or suspended players from last season will reportedly be back this year.

I am more willing to discuss issues in the secondary that might need help but even there we have added 3 guys at safety in FA, including one former Pro Bowler, and 2 guys at CB. Not to mention we picked up a guy as an UDFA after the draft that had been projected as high as the first round.

We got a LB who might very well end up replacing Fletcher in a couple of years and signed pretty good FA just this week in Goff.

I think it is pretty likely that Shanahan and Allen looked at the current roster we have assembled IN TOTAL and determined one of the biggest holes was at backup QB. I certainly see a big hole there.

Remember, the coaches believe in what they are doing and, for the most part, believe that every guy we drafted and signed can/will help us get better. If viewed that way, it is much less difficult to see Shanahan thinking backup QB was a need.

This draft was all about depth, after all. Or so Shanahan has said.
 
Lanky Livingston said:
They took a QB in the 7th round, totally different animal. Not to mention, they earned the #1 overall pick with their crappy play; the Redskins sold the farm to get to the #2 pick.
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So ONE 1st next year and ONE 1st the following year is selling the farm/future?

IF Snyder and Vinny were picking I might agree with you as those were the only draft picks they seemed capable of making with competence...the Captain Obvious picks. With Allen and Shanny, who have proven in spades that they are very adept at working the lower rounds, I don't agree at all. In fact I don't see it as much of a loss at all if either of these guys even remotely pans out. Linemen, Shanny has been using relative "no name" smaller guys with great success for over a decade. Same with RB. I have zero angst about their ability to build with guys who others had rated lower because they don't use the ZBS and covet the characteristics Shanny does.
 
Om said:
We traded 3 picks. We swapped 1. :)
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Or, we traded 4 picks, and got 1 in return. We still "traded" the 6th overall pick. We gave up:
6th overall 2012
2nd round pick 2012
1st pick 2013
1st pick 2014

Its still early in the morning, but that does add up to 4 picks, right? :)

The Shanahan's thought Cousins was a better value for this team, right now, than Ta'amu at #102. I like their intel on that better than I like yours. Nothing personal.
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As you should - my intel is probably not even 1% of theirs. :) And as much crap as I give Ryman for his "I'm so smart" rants, I agree with him that sometimes the avid fan gets it right and the coach and GM get it wrong. Happens all the time, actually.

And....if Ta'amu ends up being just a guy, and Cousins ends up winning a handful of key games for us while RG3 mends now and again over the next few years, then nets us a 1st or 2nd or maybe more in trade, and goes on to a HOF (or even Pro Bowl) career with some other team, should the Steelers be kicking themselves every single day?
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Well in short, no. The Steelers did not pass on Cousins for Ta'amu.
 
CounterTrey said:
Yea we do. We saw what they were with Bledsoe and for a while Cassell...they weren't a SB team. I'll stick by it, no Brady and they have zero rings the last decade and a half. Belichick is VASTLY overrated IMO, same with Polian.
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I happen to agree that Belicheat is overrated, but I also know that their defense has come up with enough plays over the years (especially during their SB years) to say they were not a one-trick pony.
 
Neophyte said:
I'm not sure what folks want out of this anymore.

We drafted 2 interior linemen and 1 tackle to go with a group from last year where we went 8 or 9 deep by the end of the year and you can argue that the group got better as the year went on. All the injured or suspended players from last season will reportedly be back this year.

I am more willing to discuss issues in the secondary that might need help but even there we have added 3 guys at safety in FA, including one former Pro Bowler, and 2 guys at CB. Not to mention we picked up a guy as an UDFA after the draft that had been projected as high as the first round.

We got a LB who might very well end up replacing Fletcher in a couple of years and signed pretty good FA just this week in Goff.
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Agreed. I've asked a couple questions of the people who have problems with it in this thread but they've all gone unanswered.

Apparently 4th round is way too high for us to draft a QB since we have Griffin.
And people wanted more secondary and oline picks despite us picking 3 o linemen, 2 secondary, plus all our free agent acquisitions.

I'm not saying you shouldn't question the cousins pick. But the amount of anger and attacking of the pick is just so over the top it's ridiculous. We're probably going to draft a QB next year or the year after - and it'll have nothing to do with how well griffin is playing or how healthy griffin is. But we'll be right back at it - claiming there's a QB controversy again.
 
CounterTrey said:
So ONE 1st next year and ONE 1st the following year is selling the farm/future?
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Don't forget the 2nd round pick this year. That's giving the Rams THREE picks for the right to trade 1st round picks this year (better, Om?). That's three potential game-changers for the ultimate game-changer. I would say that's selling the farm, yes.
 
Without Brady that D would have just been another footnote, Like SFd last year. I happen to think they are more responsible for their 1st 2 SB's than the O was but without Brady I have no doubt they wouldn't have any rings at all. I certainly won't give them any credit for being cerebral with that pick. If they had any clue whatsoever about his future they wouldn't have waited past the 1st round to draft him.
 
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