Cousins

[tshile]

Matt Flynn left as a free agent, didn't he?

that is correct.
he left as a free agent.

 

[Sarge]

I'm really split on this. Last year, when McTurd stunk it up and got yanked, everyone was bitching about no backups, especially when Beck hit the scene. Now, we have a backup ala Matt Flynn

HOWEVER, we NEED a Right Tackle badly, along with a lot of secondary and we need to bolster the O-line. I fail to believe that there was not a RT that rated higher than a backup QB

 

[tshile]

sarge, we took 3 linemen and 2 secondary players. most of which are considered 'multi-positional' in their position group.

you wanted 4 linemen, or you wanted 3 secondary players, out of the draft?

thats in addition to the free agent signings, mind you.

 

[Lanky Livingston]

I'm really split on this. Last year, when McTurd stunk it up and got yanked, everyone was bitching about no backups, especially when Beck hit the scene. Now, we have a backup ala Matt Flynn

HOWEVER, we NEED a Right Tackle badly, along with a lot of secondary and we need to bolster the O-line. I fail to believe that there was not a RT that rated higher than a backup QB

Shanahan was quoted before the draft saying Jammal Brown looks healthier than he's ever seen him. I think they're going to rely on him again this year. And if not, they have Willie Brown from last year, and Compton from this year's draft.

 

[Om]

My exact quote was "Generally pretty stacked" - and last time I checked, the Patriots nabbed two of the best defensive players in the draft in the first round, and spent 6 of 7 picks on the D. They had a terrible defense, and he didn't draft a backup QB in the 4th round - this only proves my point.

Only in your own noggin', brother.

Can I "prove" mine by countering that the Redksins have fielded a black hole at QB for a generation, and desperately needed to add depth to the OL, and so clearly had a dead-on perfect draft?

 

[Henry]

To me this is purely "benefit of the doubt" related.

If Saint Belichick, CG, (Certified Genius) makes this move, the world is falling all over themselves amazed at the stolen "value" derived form a media-be-damned 4th round pick, how "visionary" it was to deftly bank potential 2nd/3rd round future trade value when Cousins rookie contract is up, to have provided a "challenge" for RG3 lest he become too big-headed with all the media love.....etc.

The Skins make it? Moronic.

Om, as much as I hope Griffin turns out to be the next great Redskin franchise QB, he is not Tom Brady.

 

[tshile]

You're right. Tom Brady was a qb from Michigan that most teams seemed to think was too scrawny and had a bad attitude. He fell to the 6th round, and the patriots drafted him because they couldn't believe how far he fell.

thats according to the specials done on him by the NFL network over the last 2 years.

he now has multiple super bowl rings and I don't think there is a team out that that wouldn't want to redo that draft.

shows you how much anyone knows about these people when the draft rolls around. you have to take the best players on your board and try to coach them into being great. doesn't matter the round.

 

[Neophyte]

Om, as much as I hope Griffin turns out to be the next great Redskin franchise QB, he is not Tom Brady.

Not yet anyway...

 

[Henry]

You're right. Tom Brady was a qb from Michigan that most teams seemed to think was too scrawny and had a bad attitude. He fell to the 6th round, and the patriots drafted him because they couldn't believe how far he fell.

thats according to the specials done on him by the NFL network over the last 2 years.

he now has multiple super bowl rings and I don't think there is a team out that that wouldn't want to redo that draft.

shows you how much anyone knows about these people when the draft rolls around. you have to take the best players on your board and try to coach them into being great. doesn't matter the round.

Tom Brady is an exception, not a rule.

I know I say it a lot, but you don't use an exception to justify a move.

And besides, when Tom Brady was drafted the Pats had Drew Bledsoe. And as much as I hope Griffin turns out to be the next great Redskin Franchise QB, he's not even Drew Bledsoe at this point.

 

[Lanky Livingston]

Only in your own noggin', brother.

Can I "prove" mine by countering that the Redksins have fielded a black hole at QB for a generation, and desperately needed to add depth to the OL, and so clearly had a dead-on perfect draft?

If you want...but I think the Patriots' results speak for themselves, don't they? Maybe in 10 years if the Redskins have 3 superbowl wins & a perfect regular season under their belts, you can come back to this thread and say "See? It was a perfect draft."

Until then - I think its safe to give Saint Belichek the benefit of the doubt, don't you? And again, I'm not sure how you got "dead-on perfect draft" from what I said; my point is that a backup QB in the 4th round is a luxury pick, plain and simple. The Patriots can generally afford such luxury picks; the Redskins generally cannot. I'm not really sure how you can argue this point.

EDIT: And let's be clear - I think outside of the Cousins pick, the Redskins had a tremendous draft.

 

[tshile]

Tom Brady is an exception, not a rule.

I know I say it a lot, but you don't use an exception to justify a move.

And besides, when Tom Brady was drafted the Pats had Drew Bledsoe. And as much as I hope Griffin is the next Redskin Franchise QB, he's not even Drew Bledsoe at this point.

My point was more that you have no idea how someone's career is going to pan out.

Like it or not, scouts are wrong and guessing on a lot of things; even the ones on ESPN that people seem to love to much. So much goes into how a player turns out - who coaches them, the team around them, the opportunities they get, etc etc etc.

And yes. A guy who hasn't taken a snap in the NFL is nothing like guys who have played for years. We know that.

I don't think the exception is being used to justify the move. I think the fact that he was the best rated player on the redskins board is what's being used to justify the move. I fail to see why anything else is needed.
This isn't the last time we're going to draft a QB while Griffin is here... are we going to make a huge deal out of it every time? If so it's going to get really boring and repetitive.

 

[Om]

Om, as much as I hope Griffin turns out to be the next great Redskin franchise QB, he is not Tom Brady.

Er...straw man, H.?

My comments were about the avalanche of knee-jerk reactions to the Cousins pick. No one has the slightest clue whether it will turn out to be a good pick or not. No one. Not fan, not "expert." And there valid arguments to be made both for and against it.

My opinion is that the reason the Skins are getting pilloried for the pick by "the media" and fans is because, well, the Skins made it. So it must suck. Because the Redskins suck. If the Pats or Giants or Ravens had made it, it would have been celebrated as cunning and further evidence of institutional genius.

 

[tshile]

Lanky,
what round would you like us to draft QB's in now since we have griffen?
4th is clearly too high for you, and we'll have to continue drafting QB's since we cannot grow them on trees and we need backups and people ready to take over if need be.

so what round is it ok to start drafting QB's in going forward? Is the 5th too high? What about the 6th? I mean we only have a few to choose from is the 4th is too high.

 

[Om]

If you want...but I think the Patriots' results speak for themselves, don't they? Maybe in 10 years if the Redskins have 3 superbowl wins & a perfect regular season under their belts, you can come back to this thread and say "See? It was a perfect draft."

Until then - I think its safe to give Saint Belichek the benefit of the doubt, don't you? And again, I'm not sure how you got "dead-on perfect draft" from what I said; my point is that a backup QB in the 4th round is a luxury pick, plain and simple. The Patriots can generally afford such luxury picks; the Redskins generally cannot. I'm not really sure how you can argue this point.

EDIT: And let's be clear - I think outside of the Cousins pick, the Redskins had a tremendous draft.

No. I will give St. Belichick the benefit of the doubt when he wins something without Brady (and yes, I know Cassell managed to not totally spike the team for the one year). We've been down this road before, though, so let's not waste any time on that now ok?

I have to ask....do you think Shanahan went into this draft planning to draft another QB as early as round 4, or that, as he said to Cousins, when the man was there at #102, he "couldn't pass him up" because of the clear value? Should we have gone "need" there even if it meant passing up good value and reaching for need?

Why do we as fans think we have a better handle on that than the guy putting together the roster?

 

[Henry]

Er...straw man, H.?

My comments were about the avalanche knee-jerk reactions to the Cousins pick. No one has the slightest clue whether it will turn out to be a good pick or not. No one. Not fan, not "expert." My opinions is that the reason the Skins are getting pilloried for the pick by "the media" and fans is because, well, the Skins made it. So it must suck. Because the Redskins suck. If the Pats or Giants or Ravens had made it, it would have been celebrated as cunning and further evidence of institutional genius.

Om, I love ya. I really do. (In a brotherly kind of way ...)

But you REALLY don't see where a team like the Giants or the Pats or the Ravens would get the benefit of the doubt and we wouldn't?

This team makes terrible QB decisions. Repeatedly. It's probably the most consistent thing about the Shanahan/Allen era at this point. Trading away unprecedented picks to draft a QB and then picking another one a few rounds later when you've got lots of holes to fill flies in the face of conventional wisdom. And when you have a reputation for making moves that fly in the face of conventional wisdom that don't work out ... spectacularly ... people are going to be critical of that.

I don't think our draft was terrible. On the whole I think it looks promising. But this particular move is a head-scratcher. I don't see why it's a big deal that people point that out.

Why do we as fans think we have a better handle on that than the guy putting together the roster?

Because ever since Allen and Shanahan have been making QB moves we as fans have been critical of those moves, and every time we as fans have, sadly, been correct?

I'm certainly hoping that trend stops now. But until it does it's still a trend.

 

[stevenaa]

The argument I heard down here against the move is that it opens potential controversy amongst the fandom. Personally, I have no problem with the pick. Rex sucked as a starter and he'll suck as a backup. The first year won't matter, as I don't expect them to be world beaters.

 

[Om]

There it is, Henry. The first thing I said was that the Cousins Conundrum was 100% about "benefit of the doubt." Justifiably or not, other teams get it and we don't.

So we're not really disagreeing, are we?

 

[CounterTrey]

Nope Lanky not at all. They got lucky with Brady....no other way around that. They don't luck into the guy in the 6th and they are still the craptacular team they were before he got there. Same with the Colts. I think both of those FO's get a lot more credit for being cerebral than they deserve. Good fortune smiles on both. If they thought Brady was such great shakes they would have drafted him first.

And Henry the track record thing doesn't work at all. Shanny and Allen have only been here for two years so this lazy "Same old Redkins and Snyder" stuff is inexcusable, Snyder's only involvement was paying the bills. Furthermore, Shanny has a pretty good track record with QB's going back over the years, he's been coaching a hell of a lot longer than his stint here. His record IMO speaks for itself in that regard.

Also with McNabb I'll give him a pass, he thought Mcnabb would at least come here and act professionally, noit mail it in like he did. Even with that suckfest going Mcnabb still put up some pretty gaudy numbers for a while. Ad with Grossman and Beck, we knew that was a stopgap measure, they flat out told us it was. We come back to BT's point about just how bad this roster was when they came in. They had to make do where they could but now that they've got some options and had a guy Cousins fall to them, they jumped on it. Considering we got Compton it basically makes the pick need a wash. We got that right side guy for the future if we need him and as has already been said Brown will be back this year in his best shape yet.

I think this draft was Outstanding and literally laugh when I read the absurdity being offered up by the media especially when they act like we have no picks because we gave up a 2nd and 2 future 1sts as if drafting in the 1st or 2nd guarantees anything. It's especially comical when these rants start and you actually look at the number of picks we have and the current FO's penchant for trading down.

 

[CounterTrey]

Om, as much as I hope Griffin turns out to be the next great Redskin franchise QB, he is not Tom Brady.

Neither was Tom Brady and at that stage he had shown significantly less promise than Griffin (or Cousins for that matter, Brady couldn't even win the starters job in Michigan) has.

 

[Henry]

There it is, Henry. The first thing I said was that the Cousins Conundrum was 100% about "benefit of the doubt." Justifiably or not, other teams get it and we don't.

So we're not really disagreeing, are we?

I think where we disagree, and correct me if I'm wrong here, is that you think we deserve some benefit of the doubt the same way some other teams do.

I don't think that. We don't deserve it until we earn it.