The HC Dan Quinn Discussion Thread

For my consternation regarding replacing Kingsbury with a better hire, and now Johnson for that matter, at least it's good to know they aren't sitting around thinking everything is hunky-dory, and we just need to be healthier next year.


At the end of the day I think this is the best way to look at it. Would we prefer they sat back and used the injuries as a crutch? That they just wrote things off as 'a down year' and kept everything status quo.

I still don't think they 'fired' Kliff.... call me naive, but I do think there's something to the 'mutual parting of ways' but admittedly I'm not always right either.
 
Harris is hands off stlyistically so to assume he's behind this would be wild. And if he did it would be concerning too. You are the first unless I missed someone who is throwing Harris into this. But zero indication that he is involved in this.

As to Peters, that would mean Peters lied yesterday that he's leaving the coordinator hires to Quinn. It would be unsual for the GM to dictate the head coaches assistants. And Keim who is as good as it gets as to having inside info -- said the issues with Kliff is primarily with Quinn.

Maybe we will hear later it was all Peters, I don't know. But I'd be surprised. As Jay Gruden said the other day it would be super weird for the GM to make calls on the assistants. I get the vibe Peters is the sidebar to this not the main story. But am sure all wll be told soon.

The love triangle seems to be:

Kliff frustrated with AP (leaked to Russini, no weapons provided, understandable feelings)

Quinn frustrated with Kliff (philosophical differences—should’ve known that coming in?, getting his golden ticket Daniels killed)

AP frustrated to find out that you can’t actually sign worse weapons than Chris Moore/Robbie Chosen, so he might have to spend some money on better players this year
 

Cosmi said a lot of similar things to Rivera and was ignored.
I think Rivera agreed with Cosmi but didn't want to step on Scott's toes.

To Quinn's credit (possibly!), he is listening to Cosmi (and to himself). A bold move, though - because unlike Scott, KK has had more success here statistically.
 
At the end of the day I think this is the best way to look at it. Would we prefer they sat back and used the injuries as a crutch? That they just wrote things off as 'a down year' and kept everything status quo.

I still don't think they 'fired' Kliff.... call me naive, but I do think there's something to the 'mutual parting of ways' but admittedly I'm not always right either.
Life Of Brian GIF by Monty Python
 
At the end of the day I think this is the best way to look at it. Would we prefer they sat back and used the injuries as a crutch? That they just wrote things off as 'a down year' and kept everything status quo.

I still don't think they 'fired' Kliff.... call me naive, but I do think there's something to the 'mutual parting of ways' but admittedly I'm not always right either.
Mutual means both sides were likely unhappy.

I think it would be naive to think Kliff was happy after how this year went down. Last year, he didn't want to leave because he had fun. This year he wasn't enjoying himself. I do think it was mutual. At the least he was ready to leave, and the bar for the opportunity was not super high. It was a reachable bar, because of the situation here for him. It just wasn't a good fit maybe for reasons that we don't fully understand.
 
The QB liking the guy he spends dozens of hours a week cooped up with watching film before the sun comes up, the guy who taught him is first NFL language and helped him be confident as a pro…that makes sense no matter the schematic issues at hand. QB’s vouch for their bad OC’s every single season, and Kliff wasn’t bad. Just flawed.

Cosmi’s giving us the good shit, though. I guarantee more players feel that way (and similar other ways) than we’ll actually hear from, since this is a professional org now.
 
Mutual means both sides were likely unhappy.

I think it would be naive to think Kliff was happy after how this year went down. Last year, he didn't want to leave because he had fun. This year he wasn't enjoying himself. I do think it was mutual. At the least he was ready to leave, and the bar for the opportunity was not super high. It was a reachable bar, because of the situation here for him. It just wasn't a good fit maybe for reasons that we don't fully understand.


Yeah thats absolutely fair. To your point, it could mean a ton of different things
 
I also think a lot of people won’t admit that there are some fan emotions tied up in Kliff working out here that don’t ever get mentioned. After we were spurned by Ben Johnson, and then seemingly settled for a retread defensive guy, a LOT of people engaged in massive cope by becoming enamored with the idea that it was okay, because we actually got the offensive stud who won’t get hired away anyways! Kliff is a QB guru who hated being a HC and can be our permanent stud playcaller and he’s still only in his 40’s and energized! That’s basically the whole reason you want to hire a younger OC as HC anyways, so he can’t be stolen when your offense is elite! We cracked the damn code! Glory forever, fuck you Ben Johnson!

Now that this isn’t what happened…some people need to confront that we’re still the team with the young franchise QB stuck with the defensive HC and no security or guarantees at OC. The nightmare scenario.

I’m not saying that applies to anyone who questions this move, obviously. But when I see people freaking the fuck out on twitter, who aren’t all as plugged into the team and thought we had “offensive genius to pair with Daniels” all figured out despite hiring Quinn…there’s a lot of people crashing down to earth right now who are pissed. They lent Kliff a trust and gravitas maybe beyond what he deserved as a way to get over the Ben Johnson dream/assumption, and now the harsh light of day shines on them. And to make it worse, Ben Johnson seems like the real deal and Caleb might not bust and their joke FO actually provided tons of weapons to their guys. So the cognitive dissonance is glaring.
 
The love triangle seems to be:

Kliff frustrated with AP (leaked to Russini, no weapons provided, understandable feelings)

Quinn frustrated with Kliff (philosophical differences—should’ve known that coming in?, getting his golden ticket Daniels killed)

AP frustrated to find out that you can’t actually sign worse weapons than Chris Moore/Robbie Chosen, so he might have to spend some money on better players this year

Keim on 106.7 just now

A. Ballsy, bold move, risky. It's a big roll of the dice and it has to work for him to likely keep his job, a lot on the line

B. He got into the point I made here about Kliff-Jayden work ethic, working together from the wee hours in the morning. Jayden thrives on that. Ideally, you'd want to find an offensive coordinator that also puts in that kind of time.

C. Keim questions the idea of Daboll being that guy considering his offense isn't that different from Kliff as to majoring in the passing game, etc.

D. Brought up again that the defense because of this offense doesn't practice much against motion heavy offenses and might leave them vulnerable to it.

He seems to think the Quinn-Kliff interview clinched this. Quinn wanted Kilff to change on some fronts. Kliff didn't want to and felt that he didn't need to considering best case he can be a HC somewhere else, worst case he can be an O coordinator again and have the autonomy to run the offense the way he likes.

In short, Quinn didn't have the leverage to get Kliff to change up his scheme but pushed him anyway -- Kliff said cool but no thank you
 
Now that’s interesting. My concern with firing Kliff is that his offense is such a good fit for Jayden, plus all the challenges associated with a young QB learning a new system. But if they sign somebody like this then I would feel a lot better.

Denbrock has no NFL experience. This would be terrible
 
I also think a lot of people won’t admit that there are some fan emotions tied up in Kliff working out here that don’t ever get mentioned. After we were spurned by Ben Johnson, and then seemingly settled for a retread defensive guy, a LOT of people engaged in massive cope by becoming enamored with the idea that it was okay, because we actually got the offensive stud who won’t get hired away anyways! Kliff is a QB guru who hated being a HC and can be our permanent stud playcaller and he’s still only in his 40’s and energized! That’s basically the whole reason you want to hire a younger OC as HC anyways, so he can’t be stolen when your offense is elite! We cracked the damn code! Glory forever, fuck you Ben Johnson!

Now that this isn’t what happened…some people need to confront that we’re still the team with the young franchise QB stuck with the defensive HC and no security or guarantees at OC. The nightmare scenario.

I’m not saying that applies to anyone who questions this move, obviously. But when I see people freaking the fuck out on twitter, who aren’t all as plugged into the team and thought we had “offensive genius to pair with Daniels” all figured out despite hiring Quinn…there’s a lot of people crashing down to earth right now who are pissed. They lent Kliff a trust and gravitas maybe beyond what he deserved as a way to get over the Ben Johnson dream/assumption, and now the harsh light of day shines on them. And to make it worse, Ben Johnson seems like the real deal and Caleb might not bust and their joke FO actually provided tons of weapons to their guys. So the cognitive dissonance is glaring.

That doesn't apply to me. But yeah I am sure it does to some, I get the point.

I've put a lot of thought into some aspects of football but never a ton into comparing offensive schemes. I like the bunch sets, play action, outside zone aspects of McVay-Kyle's offense albiet McVay is always changing it, more duo-gap runs, etc. But I am more of a timing based love of play calling versus a specific style. When the coach times this or times that versus what scheme they use is what I care about more. Thus if someone says get Slowik because of Shanny's system or whatever it doesn't move me.

So my thoughts about Kliff don't run deep. My liking of him is more driven by macro performance. Look at how inept Andy Reid's offense looks like without Mahomes? lol, Kliff is moving the ball with Josh Johnson. So on a macro level, I think he's been fine. Whitt IMO has underperformed his talent or at a minimum didn't make lemonade out of lemons. Kliff IMO had made lemonade out of lemons enough. I also do care that Jayden digs working with him. And IMHO this FO hasn't done much to help or pander to Jayden.

But outside of that, I don't have strong emotions. And I like the give me the new shiny toy coordinator and the cool new narrative as much as anyone. There is some fun to any new coordinator. But aside from that the only thing I like about this is if we wanted a FO and coachiing staff that feels this off season needs to be about bringing changes, they are screaming that loud and clear.

For me, I want to see the hires before I react at this point. i am worried that Quinn botches round 2 of this -- not because of incompetence but more because of him making personality driven choices. Raheem Morris would be a text book case of this. He's not by reputation the best coordinator, but he's a big name and he fits this we all love each other brotherhood theme.

And I am not against the brotherhood stuff, but to me their identity has to transcend just the brotherhood stuff. Kliff not willing to bend to Quinn's wishes goes against the brotherhood theme -- OK he's the HC its his call but I don't want the offensive coordinator to be sort of the Raheem Morris for that side of the ball.
 
I try to be "see what happens" with coaches, front office hirings, and I think I am usually more patient and lenient before calling for someone to be fired. Raheem Morris would instantly turn my skin green and start smashing things and/or puny gods.
 
They hire Raheem Morris then someone needs to do a full exorcism of the building because the ghost of Snyder would have to be haunting the building for that to happen
 
Denbrock has no NFL experience. This would be terrible

Maybe so.

Honestly I would prefer an offense that has the quarterback under center a lot more often, more run heavy, more play action, more clock control, but I don’t think Jayden is a great fit for that.

My point is just I think we need to pick a guy that is simpatico with Jayden, so somebody who likes his quarterback in shotgun and running a lot. But I’ll leave it to more knowledgeable fans to suggest who might fit the bill.
 

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