Commanders @ Dallas - Next Day Thread

[Faithful Fan]

Jeremy McNichols was an afterthought for me heading into the season and I thought Rodriguez would be better. While I like Bill, I think McNichols needs to get the ball more to see what he can do. Not suggesting it would be a magic elixir of sorts but simply think he's earned a chance to be the dude for a couple games IMO.

Yeah I agree on McNichols. It was cool to see PFF corroborate what my eyes saw, he was one of our best players on offense yesterday.

He is proving to be a good third down back, good in pass protection, good hands, and a good runner on draw plays. So he is doing well in Ekeler’s role, though really he has done well at everything we have asked when given opportunities, so we should consider giving him more looks on first and second down too. Last year he averaged 4.7 yards per carry and scored four touchdowns, now this season he is averaging 9.3 yards per carry!

I have high hopes for JCM, but McNichols has earned more looks in the running back committee.

 

[DWinzit]

Does Luvu have a speed issue? But at least they are giving Magee more reps. Hope this is the case.

Luvu has never been known as a speedy backer. He is known for his incredible motor and physicality.

 

[Burgundy Sweatshirt]

I guess you didn't hear the commentary towards the end of the game. They asked each other, what should they be looking at; Logan was pretty explicit - but he doesn't seem to like to criticize harshly. Still, it was pretty direct.

He said that Kliff needs to take a look at 1st down runs, it looked like that was a tendency that needed to stop. Many of my friends texted me the same thing; uh, how can an NFL Coordinator not notice? Logan gave him an excuse, even: "Sometimes coordinators don't realize they are doing it." I mean, that is typical of Logan, but honestly he was as direct as he typically would be. That is VERY specific: 1st down runs. It was atrocious, frankly.

He also said in more general terms, our running game was predictable. He didn't say it in those words, it was more something along the lines of how Dallas seemed to know pretty well when we were running due to formations. He said our formations were giving away runs (as usual, he softly said it, but again as direct as Logan typically is; he said they need to look at how their formations may be telling "run").

This commentary at the end of the game is NOT about Dallas stacking the box. It is NOT about defenses "daring us to pass." It is about how this offensive scheme telegraphs run, builds up stats to show that we "tried" to run, and in a vacuum if you don't notice, talking heads then think that the run game is failing.

I don't know how strong our run game is with good calls, but our calls (especially timing and formations) are NOT good. Logan finally put it out there as I mention above; it was surprising how direct it was (for him).

Among other things, Kliff cannot or will not adjust. So predictable. Drives me nuts.

 

[Kel Varnsen]

I actually think that the fumble saved Jayden. He hurt it a few plays before and no doubt he would have finished the game and made it worse. That fumble play knocked him out of the game immediately.

The Armstrong injury sucks as he was having a great year but I like how explosive Martin looked and would love to see him get more burn off the edge

Do you know which play? I’m extra curious because during the Bears game (I think), they showed a different play talking about his knee injury. Not the scramble with the hip drop where he reached for it. So I’m curious if we all missed something.

 

[Burgundy Sweatshirt]

Quinn said they knew what they had to do to win this game. I am reading between the lines here a little bit, but I think the insinuation was "we have to run the ball, control clock, and then not fall apart on defense." I think this was always going to be a ball-control type game. They really wanted to run the ball. And Quinn said he thought they would run the ball better than they did. And was dissapointed in the run game production.

I think they went in with a gameplan and it just fell apart because Dallas knew what the game plan was (which is a "well duh" type of thing because it only made sense), and they did a good job stopping it. The thing is, I don't think they really had anything to adjust too.

I haven't seen the published snap counts per player yet, but my feeling is all those guys played a lot.

I’d hate to think Quinn thought running the ball, continually, right up the gut was how they would win. You cannot be one dimensional.

 

[RedWolf]

Dan Quinn is out for KC. Massive headaches from unknown hits to his cerebral areas

🤣😞

 

[Simeon]

I read all the comments from you guys about Kliff being predictable, the vacuum at WR, JD needing more time to recover and adjust his timing, etc. and of course they are all true. But that just means the offense that was so great last year is currently merely good. They are still scoring better than most and should be expected to improve a lot as guys come back from injury.

I still remember triage training in the Navy. The sucking chest wound on this team, the bleeding artery that has to be stopped fast before there is any chance of recovery is the defense. It’s a lot like last year except the offense then was exceptional enough to compensate for the sorry, no-good, suck-egg series of unfortunate defense. This year not so much.

Yeah I get the defense has injuries too and it’s going to be a scramble to get anything close to NFL credible at end in particular. I’m just saying with good coaching teams play better than the sum of their parts. This team plays worse than the sum of theirs.

There is no more debate for me, Whitt has to go. Quinn needs to take over that side of the ball now. I don’t think think he will because he’s not cold blooded enough, but we’ll find out. See San Francisco in their game this week. See New England last year vs this year with Vrabel. Remember Gregg Williams. Remember the Dallas defense before, with and after Quinn.

BTW I also think the defense could improve as the season goes on just because the players learn to communicate with each other and figure out their assignments, etc on their own. Regardless of the sorry, no-good, suck-egg series of unfortunate coaching they got before the season.

Later maybe I’ll stop being diplomatic and tell you how I really feel.

 

[skinsmarydu]

It's a good point. Dak basically said he knows this defense's tendencies. Whitt should know that of course. Yet, he just stuck to doing what he does, regardless, versus changing those tendencies.

Yanno, someone texted me yesterday that he thought Whitt was still working for D.

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

I think we are seeing the same things. I just think this years inaccuracies are more related to the missing parts, the inability to have any level of consistency, and his own injuries. It’s all relative in my mind. I don’t even think bringing Terry back less than 100% immediately changes it either. I don’t think he just forgot how to throw accurately overnight. Hard to be a very accurate passer without trust and confidence.

I'm not sure we are seeing the same things. You are convinced other factors are the main reason for his drop-off, which you are acknowledging. has occurred. My position is the loss of weapons obviously has a huge impact but the truth is Jayden Daniels had had a drop-off in production. He is simply not throwing it as accurately as he did last season. Now that bar is insane but it was not unreasonable for me to expect that level of play this season too.

 

[CuredFromBatteredFanSyndrome]

I'm not sure we are seeing the same things. You are convinced other factors are the main reason for his drop-off, which you are acknowledging. has occurred. My position is the loss of weapons obviously has a huge impact but the truth is Jayden Daniels had had a drop-off in production. He is simply not throwing it as accurately as he did last season. Now that bar is insane but it was not unreasonable for me to expect that level of play this season too.

You say the loss of weapons has a huge impact but then completely discredit your own statement.

What I’m saying is there’s been no level of consistency with his receivers dating back to the summer, due to Terry’s holdout, injuries, etc. The last few weeks, we can’t even run the ball because nobody cares about Robby Chosen, Chris Moore and the like. He got bludgeoned week 2 and now has to wear a knee brace that clearly hampers his athletic ability.

All of that stuff directly impacts accuracy.

I’m not saying he’s as accurate or playing as well as he did last season. Just seems rather clear to me that the drop in play is relative to so many other things going on around him.

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

You say the loss of weapons has a huge impact but then completely discredit your own statement.

What I’m saying is there’s been no level of consistency with his receivers dating back to the summer, due to Terry’s holdout, injuries, etc. The last few weeks, we can’t even run the ball because nobody cares about Robby Chosen, Chris Moore and the like. He got bludgeoned week 2 and now has to wear a knee brace that clearly hampers his athletic ability.

All of that stuff directly impacts accuracy.

I’m not saying he’s as accurate or playing as well as he did last season. Just seems rather clear to me that the drop in play is relative to so many other things going on around him.

No I'm not discrediting my own statement. Again when he had open receivers he has missed them more often than last season IMO. The defense couldn't stop the Boys and our offense needed to keep up. Those misses cost first downs and resulted in punts. And again even on his completions, such as the long one to Deebo against the Chargers, the throw was short and the receiver had to adjust which slowed him down.

 

[CuredFromBatteredFanSyndrome]

No I'm not discrediting my own statement. Again when he had open receivers he has missed them more often than last season IMO. The defense couldn't stop the Boys and our offense needed to keep up. Those misses cost first downs and resulted in punts. And again even on his completions, such as the long one to Deebo against the Chargers, the throw was short and the receiver had to adjust which slowed him down.

I’ve also seen him stuff it in the smallest of windows this season just the same.

But that’s beside the point, as I’ve said that he’s clearly not as accurate overall this season as he was last. We agree on that.

I gave my reasons that I think his accuracy is down, but you haven’t. If you think the reasons I gave are merely excuses, I’m interested to hear your thoughts on why he’s been less accurate.

 

[SkinsFTW]

I'd have to actually look at game logs (and I'm not going to) but I'm not really sure that the offense is much less successful than last year. Sure he's definitely not as accurate right now but there were so many drives last year where they got to 4th down, sometimes more than once, and went for it and made it. Maybe there were more 4th and 1-2s and this year it's more 4th and 3+ but they definitely aren't going for it at the same rate and it's going to be next to impossible to be as successful, close to 90%, as last year. What I mean is that unless the offense is actually better than it was last year the odds are that it's going to be less successful without duplicating that 4th down rate. Which just isn't going to happen.

All of that is just not going to happen when you have to start your 4-6 WRs and your running game is as creative as the Tecmo Bowl Gerald Riggs gut run on repeat because there is only that one option.

 

[Conn]

I'd have to actually look at game logs (and I'm not going to) but I'm not really sure that the offense is much less successful than last year. Sure he's definitely not as accurate right now but there were so many drives last year where they got to 4th down, sometimes more than once, and went for it and made it. Maybe there were more 4th and 1-2s and this year it's more 4th and 3+ but they definitely aren't going for it at the same rate and it's going to be next to impossible to be as successful, close to 90%, as last year. What I mean is that unless the offense is actually better than it was last year the odds are that it's going to be less successful without duplicating that 4th down rate. Which just isn't going to happen.

All of that is just not going to happen when you have to start your 4-6 WRs and your running game is as creative as the Tecmo Bowl Gerald Riggs gut run on repeat because there is only that one option.

It wasn’t just our 4th down ballsiness and #1 conversation rate, although that was historic and a huge part of our success last year. Separate from that, we were also top-6 in the NFL in 3rd down conversion rate, right now we’re bottom-10. Huge difference. The offense is undoubtedly worse (for many reasons, including the ones you mentioned)

 

[skinsinparadise]

If Jayden is more under duress because teams are blitzing him like crazy and are not afraid of his receivers -- you'd figure on that point alone his accuracy would suffer.

But for his faults, I'll take the word of Jay Gruden, who played QB, and run offenses. He said indeed a QB won't look as accurate under the context that Jayden is playing in -- among other things some throws that look off are likely the receiver being in the wrong spot.

 

[DCSkinz2023]

Last year our average yards needed on 3rd down was 4.5 and this year its over 7 yards. Dumb penalties, bad runs, etc, it snowballs

 

[skinsmarydu]

It wasn’t just our 4th down ballsiness and #1 conversation rate, although that was historic and a huge part of our success last year. Separate from that, we were also top-6 in the NFL in 3rd down conversion rate, right now we’re bottom-10. Huge difference. The offense is undoubtedly worse (for many reasons, including the ones you mentioned)

I thought about that after your post, and while I ain't for lookin' up numbers n stuff...seemed to me we were successful with a shitton of 1st & 10 conversions also. The team extended offensive drives, ate up some clock, etc.
Now, when JD5 goes long, he sometimes expects the DPI call...I don't think he's on pace for as many this season as last...but whaddo I know? I ain't one of those who complains about the officiating, but damn...it's horrible. Right up there with the WNBA

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

I’ve also seen him stuff it in the smallest of windows this season just the same.

But that’s beside the point, as I’ve said that he’s clearly not as accurate overall this season as he was last. We agree on that.

I gave my reasons that I think his accuracy is down, but you haven’t. If you think the reasons I gave are merely excuses, I’m interested to hear your thoughts on why he’s been less accurate.

Why must I give a reason for why he is not as accurate? I don't think there is a real reason, I don't believe it's his injury. So that is my concern. Was last year kind of unrealistic to repeat? We've seen countless rookie QBs play great only to drop off later. Now I do not for a second believe Jayden Daniels will be like RGIII or CJ Stroud. I think he is far better than those players ever were. But it is a fair question to ask: Were our expectations unrealistic? Because going into the season I definitely had Jayden knocking on the door of the Big 4, the top QBs in the game. Now I can't say that.

 

[Professor_Nutter_Butter]

I think the offense is going to be good when fully healthy. Just a lot of out of sync ness to start the season.


The defense on the other hand…my goodness. What are Quinn and Whitt teaching these guys?

Concerning the offense -- Just a shame that'll likely be the case when reaching the postseason isn't possible.

 

[CuredFromBatteredFanSyndrome]

Why must I give a reason for why he is not as accurate? I don't think there is a real reason, I don't believe it's his injury. So that is my concern. Was last year kind of unrealistic to repeat? We've seen countless rookie QBs play great only to drop off later. Now I do not for a second believe Jayden Daniels will be like RGIII or CJ Stroud. I think he is far better than those players ever were. But it is a fair question to ask: Were our expectations unrealistic? Because going into the season I definitely had Jayden knocking on the door of the Big 4, the top QBs in the game. Now I can't say that.

You aren’t required to give a reason, but there are always reasons. Just seems weird to be a very accurate passer and then not be overnight, just because.

I haven’t seen anything out of him that alarms me. Besides the injuries which in fairness aren’t happening while running carelessly. He appeared to take the offseason seriously. He could have had every endorsement opportunity under the sun but declined a lot. He appeared to have a good camp by all accounts. No rumblings or rumors about any drama. I just don’t see the breadcrumbs like I have with a lot of other QB’s that take a step back and never return to what they once were.

The path to being great isn’t linear.