Commanders @ Dallas - Next Day Thread

[skinsinparadise]

You aren’t required to give a reason, but there are always reasons. Just seems weird to be a very accurate passer and then not be overnight, just because.

I haven’t seen anything out of him that alarms me. Besides the injuries which in fairness aren’t happening while running carelessly. He appeared to take the offseason seriously. He could have had every endorsement opportunity under the sun but declined a lot. He appeared to have a good camp by all accounts. No rumblings or rumors about any drama. I just don’t see the breadcrumbs like I have with a lot of other QB’s that take a step back and never return to what they once were.

The path to being great isn’t linear.

He's been very good mostly. Not as good but close enough. I don't get though those (not you) who don't factor context as to why he's not quite as good.

A. Lacking his playmakers
B. Playing with a brace -- which not only mitigates his running to some extent, Logan Paulsen made a good point the other day which is the way Jayden torques his body when he throws he can see how the brace might affect that motion some
C. Not having time to build chemistry with his receivers
D. Accuracy (as Jay among others have pointed out) is hard to gauge with a new receiving corp because the Wr might be in the wrong spot, even a foot off here and there, will make it look like Jayden was off a foot but it was the receiver who was responsible. I think it was Logan who said he could hear on the sideline in a recent game their WR coach explain to a WR they were a foot off as to the spot they sat in.

The kicker is Mahomes, Burrow are given outs when they lost playmakers or didn't have camp to practice with their top WRs, hence they don't look like quite themselves. I guess Jayden should be flattered that he's held to higher standards than Mahomes. Mahomes can have excuses. But not the grizzled 1 season veteran, Jayden Daniels.

 

[Boone]

I think it’s silly to wonder ‘why’ JD might be having a less stellar year and why his ‘accuracy’ isn’t what it was last season.

Sometimes the simplest explanation is the correct explanation. Just having a completely different and less talented set of WRs to work with would likely explain it. And there are other factors already discussed at play.

Jayden Daniels accuracy is #572 on the list of things we need to be worried about

 

[AngryChuckT]

He's been very good mostly. Not as good but close enough. I don't get though those (not you) who don't factor context as to why he's not quite as good.

A. Lacking his playmakers
B. Playing with a brace -- which not only mitigates his running to some extent, Logan Paulsen made a good point the other day which is the way Jayden torques his body when he throws he can see how the brace might affect that motion some
C. Not having time to build chemistry with his receivers
D. Accuracy (as Jay among others have pointed out) is hard to gauge with a new receiving corp because the Wr might be in the wrong spot, even a foot off here and there, will make it look like Jayden was off a foot but it was the receiver who was responsible. I think it was Logan who said he could hear on the sideline in a recent game their WR coach explain to a WR they were a foot off as to the spot they sat in.

The kicker is Mahomes, Burrow are given outs when they lost playmakers or didn't have camp to practice with their top WRs, hence they don't look like quite themselves. I guess Jayden should be flattered that he's held to higher standards than Mahomes. Mahomes can have excuses. But not the grizzled 1 season veteran, Jayden Daniels.

That one was egregious. They tried a make up call later when Mariotta was in, but it was too little too late.

 

[skinsmarydu]

That one was egregious. They tried a make up call later when Mariotta was in, but it was too little too late.

I noticed that as well. Even said it out loud.

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

You aren’t required to give a reason, but there are always reasons. Just seems weird to be a very accurate passer and then not be overnight, just because.

I haven’t seen anything out of him that alarms me. Besides the injuries which in fairness aren’t happening while running carelessly. He appeared to take the offseason seriously. He could have had every endorsement opportunity under the sun but declined a lot. He appeared to have a good camp by all accounts. No rumblings or rumors about any drama. I just don’t see the breadcrumbs like I have with a lot of other QB’s that take a step back and never return to what they once were.

The path to being great isn’t linear.

Were there breadcrumbs around CJ Stroud after his rookie season? I think you are looking for things that aren't there., maybe all we need to do is watch the games. Sometimes a player plays great but that's not who he really is and it is not sustainable. Again I'm not putting Jayden in the same company as Stroud. I will always believe Jayden is a franchise QB but will he be so great that he can carry a team as the true great QBs can do? I believe he will be yes, but this season has caused me to pump the breaks on that assumption when before the season I had no doubts.

There is always a chance that last season was a mirage that won't be repeated. The signs are his inaccuracy this season when compared to last season and the reports that he didn't look all that sharp in camp.

 

[HTTR]

Hi all. Needed a few days to recover from that horrendous defeat. Now that I’ve had some time to think about it, I’m feeling like I may need to accept some harsh realities.

AP. I’ve been vehemently defending him against any detractors for the last two years, but it’s getting harder and harder to do. I can no longer deny that his first draft just wasn’t very good, nor are the early returns on his second draft. Still early, I know, but the arrow is pointing down on both. In free agency year one he went old and cheap, and got away with it. Not so this year. Especially hurts that we didn’t sign a decent corner. There were some good young players available. But we signed the cheap old guy from New England, who has given us nothing. And then, of course, there’s the Lattimore disaster. 😱 To be fair, I still think he’s done a good job overall. And we’ve all waited so long to have an actual legitimate GM running our team, so I’m good with it. We have a solid, professional GM… but my hopes of him being some kind of superstar GM are fading quickly.

Then there’s the coaching. I don’t think this is the staff that’s going to be around when we get to the next level. Kliff will get hired away to a HC gig, and Whitt most likely will get fired after two years of awful defenses. Still love DQ, and he was the perfect coach to establish a new attitude, and bring our franchise up to a reasonable level of respectability. I hope he sticks around, but at the same time it is concerning when you hire a “defensive minded“ coach, and yet the defense looks this bad. His game/clock management has left a lot to be desired.

As for JD5, I’m actually not seeing any harsh realities here as others seem to be. He’s fine, and will continue to be a great player as long as his health will allow. We’ve known for a while now that our WR room was going to be in big trouble if we ever lost Terry for an extended period, so none of this should be a surprise. The running game is going to continue to suffer until we can put some decent play makers on the field in the passing game. Getting Terry and Debo back in the lineup will make all the difference in the world. Still though, wish we would have spent a little more in FA for a more reliable receiver, instead of going cheap old and injury prone with Noah Brown. When we needed them the most, AP draft picks Lane, McCaffrey, and Sinnot were nowhere to be found. The passing game woes to me are on peters not JD.

 

[Due East]

That damn almost 9 minute Cowboys mic'd up clip is something else. Lattimore and Connerly Jr. ..... YIkes

If I were Quinn I would have this on repeat on every TV Screen in Ashburn all week long.

Clowney on Connerly "dude can't block nobody, dude suck"

 

[CuredFromBatteredFanSyndrome]

Were there breadcrumbs around CJ Stroud after his rookie season? I think you are looking for things that aren't there., maybe all we need to do is watch the games. Sometimes a player plays great but that's not who he really is and it is not sustainable. Again I'm not putting Jayden in the same company as Stroud. I will always believe Jayden is a franchise QB but will he be so great that he can carry a team as the true great QBs can do? I believe he will be yes, but this season has caused me to pump the breaks on that assumption when before the season I had no doubts.

There is always a chance that last season was a mirage that won't be repeated. The signs are his inaccuracy this season when compared to last season and the reports that he didn't look all that sharp in camp.

This is my last post on this here, as it’s time to move on. If it’s worthy of proceeding further, there is a JD thread.

You say I’m looking for things that aren’t there, yet you can’t point to anything other than “he’s just not as accurate” anymore only citing that some QB’s have mirage rookie seasons.

You’ve been presented with reasons about why he is less accurate, by numerous posters, and say they are huge factors but then in the same post say that they aren’t.

We are all coping with this season in our own ways. I am wavering on a lot with this org right now but JD isn’t one of them. I’m much more concerned about our past two drafts, the lack of picks in the next one, and our coaching than anything else.

 

[CuredFromBatteredFanSyndrome]

That damn almost 9 minute Cowboys mic'd up clip is something else. Lattimore and Connerly Jr. ..... YIkes

If I were Quinn I would have this on repeat on every TV Screen in Ashburn all week long.

Clowney on Connerly "dude can't block nobody, dude suck"

I went looking for this and it was a hard watch for me as merely a fan.

I cant imagine what it feels like to be one of the 53 that suited up. Or worse, being talked about casually as a player who can’t block anybody that sucks. Or having Pickens just diarrhea all over you to your face like Lattimore.

Gonna be a long season, guys.

 

[Chris 44]

That one was egregious. They tried a make up call later when Mariotta was in, but it was too little too late.

The fact that Lattimore did the same thing earlier and got called for it is what got me upset. I just want consistency in the refs, players and coaches also want consistency.

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

This is my last post on this here, as it’s time to move on. If it’s worthy of proceeding further, there is a JD thread.

You say I’m looking for things that aren’t there, yet you can’t point to anything other than “he’s just not as accurate” anymore only citing that some QB’s have mirage rookie seasons.

You’ve been presented with reasons about why he is less accurate, by numerous posters, and say they are huge factors but then in the same post say that they aren’t.

We are all coping with this season in our own ways. I am wavering on a lot with this org right now but JD isn’t one of them. I’m much more concerned about our past two drafts, the lack of picks in the next one, and our coaching than anything else.

I never said those other factors are not in play. I said just the opposite in fact. What I'm not willing to do is excuse over throws on open receivers regardless of how good or bad that open receiver is.

I agree it's time to move on.

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

I went looking for this and it was a hard watch for me as merely a fan.

I cant imagine what it feels like to be one of the 53 that suited up. Or worse, being talked about casually as a player who can’t block anybody that sucks. Or having Pickens just diarrhea all over you to your face like Lattimore.

Gonna be a long season, guys.

Where did you see that Clowney comment on Conerly?

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

Hi all. Needed a few days to recover from that horrendous defeat. Now that I’ve had some time to think about it, I’m feeling like I may need to accept some harsh realities.

AP. I’ve been vehemently defending him against any detractors for the last two years, but it’s getting harder and harder to do. I can no longer deny that his first draft just wasn’t very good, nor are the early returns on his second draft. Still early, I know, but the arrow is pointing down on both. In free agency year one he went old and cheap, and got away with it. Not so this year. Especially hurts that we didn’t sign a decent corner. There were some good young players available. But we signed the cheap old guy from New England, who has given us nothing. And then, of course, there’s the Lattimore disaster. 😱 To be fair, I still think he’s done a good job overall. And we’ve all waited so long to have an actual legitimate GM running our team, so I’m good with it. We have a solid, professional GM… but my hopes of him being some kind of superstar GM are fading quickly.

Then there’s the coaching. I don’t think this is the staff that’s going to be around when we get to the next level. Kliff will get hired away to a HC gig, and Whitt most likely will get fired after two years of awful defenses. Still love DQ, and he was the perfect coach to establish a new attitude, and bring our franchise up to a reasonable level of respectability. I hope he sticks around, but at the same time it is concerning when you hire a “defensive minded“ coach, and yet the defense looks this bad. His game/clock management has left a lot to be desired.

As for JD5, I’m actually not seeing any harsh realities here as others seem to be. He’s fine, and will continue to be a great player as long as his health will allow. We’ve known for a while now that our WR room was going to be in big trouble if we ever lost Terry for an extended period, so none of this should be a surprise. The running game is going to continue to suffer until we can put some decent play makers on the field in the passing game. Getting Terry and Debo back in the lineup will make all the difference in the world. Still though, wish we would have spent a little more in FA for a more reliable receiver, instead of going cheap old and injury prone with Noah Brown. When we needed them the most, AP draft picks Lane, McCaffrey, and Sinnot were nowhere to be found. The passing game woes to me are on peters not JD.

I'm glad someone is not afraid to criticize AP and his drafts. I have been questioning that first draft all offseason and was told to sit down and be patient. I know rookies need time to develop but it's been my experience that most of the good players in the league showed they were good in their first season. Ours did not, other than obviously Jayden, and none have taken any forward steps in their second. Some have actually regressed considerably.

I've been saying this about Connerly all season and was again told to sit down and be patient. I don't remember any really good players being this bad as a rookie as I have been saying. I think there are very real concerns about our first round pick at this point in time.

 

[CuredFromBatteredFanSyndrome]

Where did you see that Clowney comment on Conerly?

Sounds from the Sideline: Put 44 Points on Washington | Dallas Cowboys 2025

🥲

 

[method man]

I'm glad someone is not afraid to criticize AP and his drafts. I have been questioning that first draft all offseason and was told to sit down and be patient. I know rookies need time to develop but it's been my experience that most of the good players in the league showed they were good in their first season. Ours did not, other than obviously Jayden, and none have taken any forward steps in their second. Some have actually regressed considerably.

I've been saying this about Connerly all season and was again told to sit down and be patient. I don't remember any really good players being this bad as a rookie as I have been saying. I think there are very real concerns about our first round pick at this point in time.

I’ve been a hater of that first draft since it took place and was vocal back on ES about it.

I would have never made the Philly trade. With the two 2nds we would have had, I want Kool Aid McKinstry and Patrick Paul. McKinstry looks like a league average outside corner and Paul looks like a starting caliber average LT who is plus in pass pro and a negative in run blocking.

I also remember wanting to double dip on tackles in the 3rd and was all over Amegadjie who looks like a bust so far.

Wouldn’t have yielded world beaters but it at least may prevented the Tunsil trade from happening. I really like having him but 4 picks is a lot to give up

 

[Due East]

Did I miss where Adam Peters overhauled the scouting department? For all the people blaming Ron, do we not still have the same people working in Ashburn? I know year one of Adam he said that he was keeping everything in place. Other than the Marty's what has changed?

 

[skinsinparadise]

I think its fine of course to criticize whatever people want. Especially when a season is dissapointing. I hit the Peters point on the Sky isn't Falling thread -- in short I disagree with the global criticism of him. As for specific things, yeah he's made mistakes like anyone else. He's also made a bunch of good moves too but it gets lost in the sauce when focusing on the misses.

So lol, judging by here and talk radio. The anger is focused either on Quinn, Peters, Jayden. Somewhat in that order. With some just focused on one of the three or two of the three.

For me my concern about the macro picture is at a zero. Again, am the dude who said this summer I think they will get off to a slow start, I think they are feeling themsleves too much, and I think they are walking into a Rocky 3 moment before they bounce back. In the euphoria of the preseason, my takes weren't well received by everyone. But my point is i am far from a pollyana type. And I called the slow start before it happened.

Do I trust Peters, Quinn, Jayden to bounce back. 100%. Am I shocked they needed their Mr. T knocked Rocky on his ass moment to wake up? Not at all, I predicted it.

It actually took longer than I expected though this season. And if I had to do my own venting and pick on one of the three people -- it would be Quinn. Not because I don't think he's a good coach. But because to me he was a poster child as to having his head in the clouds from my point of view until last Sunday.

I liked Quinn snapping at his press conference on Sunday but he also revealed that this was THE wakeup call. Not the loss to GB. Not the loss to the Bears. But the loss to the Cowboys. Listening to him and Whitt all season, they came off like they had no problems and the team was just a play or two away from a magic carpet ride season. So Quinn saying he was very surprised that the team was where its at -- revealed that he didn't think there was much wrong about the season leading up to it.

They had by most counts a light camp. Lighter than the previous year. He barely played his starters in the preseason (which some studies say helps lead to early injuries). Jayden didn't throw a single pass in the preseason. Now we are all talking about how meh his chemistry is with his current WRs. Clearly that wasn't a concern of theirs this summer. Even Tom Brady said there is nothing like preseason game reps to get ready for the season especially as to building rapport with his receivers and live bullets under durress is night and day different than throwing in camp with no rush.

Quinn's press conferences and Whitt's during the season has shown zero code red level concerns. I hate him brushing off some early struggles to "September football". as if every team treats the real preseason as September. Look dude some teams indeed do. But not every team including some of his early season opponents. Plus a team with so many new moving parts needs more reps. This isn't a team who have played with each other forever.

To say we sleep walked through camp and the beginning of the seasoon is hyperbole. But its IMO at least a mild version of that point. It's like a kid who is getting a C grade in a class, brushes it off, because they see themselves as stellar, then gets an F on top of that and says oh shit I might not get the A that I thought would just come from me being me. That's how the season feels like its unfolding from Quinn.

It felt that way to me this summer. It's played out the way even more than I expected. But I think the wakeup call will work. But unfortunately, it might be too late because of the injuries piled up on them. They need to have their wakeup call after the GB game, not last Sunday but it is what it is. But reputation both Quinn and Peters are compeititve as heck and work nonstop.

I have more faith in Peters than Quinn but have faith in both. I got one macro concern about Quinn, if it needs to be done can he fire his pal Joe Whitt? If he can't and doubles down on Whitt next off season if the season goes down the way its been going down, I will then have concerns about Quinn.

People who cover the team, film junkies, etc have all converged to the idea that the defensive talent is better than the performance. The defense talent isn't hot but it arguably isn't abysmal either. Yet, they are playing below their talent. It's mystifying to me that espeically some of the same people in the media who say this team is underpeforming the talent to lay off of Whitt. So if the results is less than the talent -- how is coaching not the culprit?

 

[Dlts20]

 

[skinsinparadise]

Did I miss where Adam Peters overhauled the scouting department? For all the people blaming Ron, do we not still have the same people working in Ashburn? I know year one of Adam he said that he was keeping everything in place. Other than the Marty's what has changed?

He brought in the hierarchy behind him. new blood

Newmark -- Lions.

Sosna -- Lions

David Blackburn Ravens

Scott Fitterer -- ex-GM, he's new

Chris White -- the next guy in power as to the hierarchy from what I can see is new from the Bears.

Looks like his main retain is Tim Gribble, director of college scouting. He's supposed to be the one rising star from the previous regime and we (including myself) talked about him on ES for years in a positive way.

I know they got a scout from SF. lol, I don't feel like going through everyone in the FO. But clearly its quite an overhaul.

 

[HTTR]

I'm glad someone is not afraid to criticize AP and his drafts. I have been questioning that first draft all offseason and was told to sit down and be patient. I know rookies need time to develop but it's been my experience that most of the good players in the league showed they were good in their first season. Ours did not, other than obviously Jayden, and none have taken any forward steps in their second. Some have actually regressed considerably.

I've been saying this about Connerly all season and was again told to sit down and be patient. I don't remember any really good players being this bad as a rookie as I have been saying. I think there are very real concerns about our first round pick at this point in time.

Oh yeah well I was probably one of the people telling you to be patient. And I still say it, but it’s become harder and harder with time to hold on to my beliefs about AP. I don’t think it’s nearly as bad as some people are making it out to be (and I certainly don’t expect him to hit on every draft pick), it’s just that my hopes were high, real high. And the early returns were only serving as affirmation. Recent returns not so much.

It’s fine though, I’m perfectly happy with AP and doubt the grass is going to be much greener anywhere else. His job is safe and it should be. But you’re right we can’t just be homers about it… so I’m going to criticize him when warranted, and also continue to sing his praises when it’s warranted. Mostly I think he’s just a victim of the high expectations he created for himself with last year‘s magical season.