Official Game Thread - Week 2 - Commanders @ Packers - TNF

[Chris 44]

I started watching the All 22, I'll try to get through it all, almost through the first quarter.

As for observations that others haven't talked about much so far.

A. Good sign that they doubled Newton a bunch early. They were worried about him. Newton was husitling and playing with energy.

B. Goldman was surprisingly active and shed tackles well. Another dude who played with energy

C. Allegretti looked atrocious. A lot of attention on Conerly. But Allegretti looked just as bad.

D. Terry was wide open for a deep ball on a post route but Jayden was pressured some and didn't see him.

E. GB moved Parsons all over the place. So did Luvu. But lol, Luvu was easily containted. Parsons was a handful

F. Tunsil looking find so far. He seems to make pass rushers do a wide arc to get to the QB which gives the QB more time. But, Jayden needs to be aware of thta arc because sometimes he just sits in the pocket oblivious to that arc versus stepping forward a step or two and avoiding potential pressure

F. That's where more preseason playing together would have helped.

 

[SkinsFTW]

I saw him flying through the air and miss a tackle on a receiver last night. It was at least rather photogenic.

I think that's was on the Jordan Love run that Amos also whiffed on.

 

[Commander PK]

If we look like ass against the Raiders I’m going to be pretty upset, but at this point I’m willing to move past the Packers. This season is just getting started.

 

[Chris 44]

I think that's was on the Jordan Love run that Amos also whiffed on.

Wish I had a screen shot of it......was a thing of beauty.

 

[skinsinparadise]

F. That's where more preseason playing together would have helped.

Absolutely. When you got a light camp, starters hardly play in the preseason, your two outside WRs missing camp, a new O line that needs time to gel -- I don't think those including myself were making some from Mars point that they might not be at their best early. People can make fun of the point all they want -- Osaka, etc. That's fine. But lol, as I said its not JUST the preseason its everything in symphony with it.

It's been a repeat ironically of last season but just in a different order. Last year they played poorly against Tampa and got whipped and played meh against the Giants but won anyway. You can argue that they were better against NY this year versus last and worst against GB than they were against Tampa. But on the aggregate its a similar start.

I'll give this to Quinn. Like I said in a press conference, he didn't make fun of the idea of playing players in the preseason when asked about it. He acknowledged that it helps to play players more. He didn't hit the trade off in his answer. But he clearly obviously likes the trade off.

He's a smart guy who adjusts. If this play continues and they miss the playoffs, I'd bet that he changes this. Conversely, if they do fine anyway like last year, he will keep to this style.

It was interesting that the Packers coaches think playing guys in the preseason helps them avoid early injuries. I've never heard that theory before.

 

[skinsinparadise]

Nice play from Von and Martin where they both beat their guy on the same play

 

[Chris 44]

Clock management at the end of the half in both games was not good. Finishing both halves on a positive note would have been huge. In closer games would be critical.

 

[skinsinparadise]

Listening to talk radio today and this point coming hard today from multiple reporters at camp, they are harping on the light camp-preseason and consider September their preseason so wait for them to gel. So wonder if Dan gets asked about it again on Monday.

though the one thing that happened last year was they clicked in game 3. So that clearly can happen again.

 

[skinsinparadise]

Now I watched the full first half on the All 22. Not too much to add.

A. To double down, Allegretti, was atrocious. If I had to summarize why the O line looked really bad it was a combination of Allegretti and Conerly.

B. Conerly's lack of play strength shows at times. If you bull rush him and make him set fast, he quickly loses leverage

C. Coleman had some bad moments, too. Paul came in for him and looked better so far. Paul though seems to like to use his strength to punch-push the defenders off versus contain them. Not sure that technique always works.

D. Terry looked better than I thought watching the game the first time. He had some times where he was open. I can't say the same for Noah.

E. Pass rush wasn't as bad as I thought. they had monents. Not a great game. But more of a C performance than F. they were disruptive at times but they didn't finish. Luvu didn't make an impact. But Armstrong was disruptive. Payne and Newton had some moments. Miller seemed to be running too much of a wide arc as opposed to a straight line to the Qb, but had a moment or two. My point isn't they were good. But they didn't look atrocious either as to the D line. It was the back 7 that seemed like a hot mess and fooled by misdirection again and again.

F. Looks like Payne and Kinlaw are the A team as for the Dts. They got more playing time. With Payne playing the left, mostly 3, Kinlaw at 0-1 or the right playing 3-4. Then the B team is Newton-Goldman. With Newton playing Payne's role and Goldman playing the Kinlaw role. To my eyes the B team, Goldman-Newton looked stronger than the A team.

G. Packers liked to double team the Dts and leave the Des with one blocker mostly

H. The Packers LBs were clearly coached to swarm Jayden's right side when Jayden looked like he could take off and run.

I. Also it looked clear that the Packers defense thought they can win with 4 on the D line. But also have a LB ready close to the line of scrimmage out wide to take away their screens.

If I had to come up with an amateur layman's explanation for what I've seen so far. The Packers game plan was.

A. Win with 4 at the D line.
B. Assume that Jayden will exit on the right if there is pressure or throw a screen to either side. And if the pass rush works and prepared for both the screens and QB scrambles, the Commanders offense would be thwarted because they would have taken this teams comfort food-binky away and that would frustrate the offense.

 

[Conn]

“Run out of Dallas”? That’s an interesting way of looking at it.

Right. People were mad about his defense’s playoff performance (ironically against the Packers), but Cowboys fans were upset he was leaving and basically accused him of being in such a rush to compete for his Washington HC opportunity that he self-sabotaged their playoff gameplan. They felt betrayed, they certainly didn’t want to run him out of town before that.

 

[Conn]

Wagner made a lot of plays last night. I am a little surprised to see McGee on the list but that's a good sign!

Sucks that most of our DBs are on the shit list

Weirdly makes me less worried, as I know Sainristil and Quan don’t suck.

So the idea that stubbornly sticking to man coverage and getting burned was a schematic issue carries more weight than if it was just Lattimore.

 

[Kel Varnsen]

Now I watched the full first half on the All 22. Not too much to add.

A. To double down, Allegretti, was atrocious. If I had to summarize why the O line looked really bad it was a combination of Allegretti and Conerly.

B. Conerly's lack of play strength shows at times. If you bull rush him and make him set fast, he quickly loses leverage

C. Coleman had some bad moments, too. Paul came in for him and looked better so far. Paul though seems to like to use his strength to punch-push the defenders off versus contain them. Not sure that technique always works.

D. Terry looked better than I thought watching the game the first time. He had some times where he was open. I can't say the same for Noah.

E. Pass rush wasn't as bad as I thought. they had monents. Not a great game. But more of a C performance than F. they were disruptive at times but they didn't finish. Luvu didn't make an impact. But Armstrong was disruptive. Payne and Newton had some moments. Miller seemed to be running too much of a wide arc as opposed to a straight line to the Qb, but had a moment or two. My point isn't they were good. But they didn't look atrocious either as to the D line. It was the back 7 that seemed like a hot mess and fooled by misdirection again and again.

F. Looks like Payne and Kinlaw are the A team as for the Dts. They got more playing time. With Payne playing the left, mostly 3, Kinlaw at 0-1 or the right playing 3-4. Then the B team is Newton-Goldman. With Newton playing Payne's role and Goldman playing the Kinlaw role. To my eyes the B team, Goldman-Newton looked stronger than the A team.

G. Packers liked to double team the Dts and leave the Des with one blocker mostly

H. The Packers LBs were clearly coached to swarm Jayden's right side when Jayden looked like he could take off and run.

I. Also it looked clear that the Packers defense thought they can win with 4 on the D line. But also have a LB ready close to the line of scrimmage out wide to take away their screens.

If I had to come up with an amateur layman's explanation for what I've seen so far. The Packers game plan was.

A. Win with 4 at the D line.
B. Assume that Jayden will exit on the right if there is pressure or throw a screen to either side. And if the pass rush works and prepared for both the screens and QB scrambles, the Commanders offense would be thwarted because they would have taken this teams comfort food-binky away and that would frustrate the offense.

Something I have been wondering and curious as to your take on it. Most of the replays they showed, receivers weren’t open. At least by the time Jayden had to run or was pressured or sacked. Many times, they looked like they hadn’t even entered the break of their route, but were still plastered by the DB. Maybe they were the deep routes to draw coverage away from the underneath, but not sure. Were receivers getting open and Jayden didn’t see them? Or were the receivers covered and by the time Jayden had to make a decision, no one was open?

 

[skinsinparadise]

Something I have been wondering and curious as to your take on it. Most of the replays they showed, receivers weren’t open. At least by the time Jayden had to run or was pressured or sacked. Many times, they looked like they hadn’t even entered the break of their route, but were still plastered by the DB. Maybe they were the deep routes to draw coverage away from the underneath, but not sure. Were receivers getting open and Jayden didn’t see them? Or were the receivers covered and by the time Jayden had to make a decision, no one was open?

From what I've watched so far, i am into the early 3rd quarter. It's not as bad as i thought watching the game in real time as to Wr seperation.

It's not like the seperation was great. But there were enough moments where I can say the unit was about a C minus on that front. Jayden had some underneath options in the flat, especially in between the numbers. Ertz had some seperation on plays. Terry ditto. Noah not so much. Not so much seperation deep (except for one from Terry) but enough open on the 2nd level. Not a ton. But some.

There were plenty of moments when the seperation was there but they were a tick off on finishing the route because of pressure.

So the pressure to my eyes was the culprit mostly for the lack of WRs being open. So in short if they can fix their pass protection, I think the WR crew will be fine.

GB was daring Kliff to run the ball, having 4 on the line and sometimes blitzing (but when they blitzed it worked) but Kliff didn't want to run the ball. So in turn they can tee off on this O line and they did. Parsons was insane, he beat 3 guys on one play.

Conerly looked atrocious. So did Allegretti. When Cosmi is back that should make a big difference. I'd consider benching Conerly for Wylie. You cannot have one let alone two o lineman play that level bad and win. I mean atrocious might not be a strong enough word. Neither looked like they belong in the NFL. If Conerly was a late round pick, I think he'd be cut. Coleman had bad moments, too but wasn't atrocious to my eyes.

As for Jayden, he came off skittish as the game went on. He was under duress for much of the game. Even when he got the ball out, he often got hit. They beat the heck out of him in that game. There was no balance in the offensive game plan and GB was just teeing off. He wasn't always patient enough for Wrs to finish their breaks but when you are pressured about 50% of your drop backs, its going to effect how you function.

On rewatch, if there is a playoff rematch hopefully, I don't feel as hopeless lol as i did while watching the game last night. Not that they looked good. They didn't. But its clear they have to alter their plan. If this O line can pass protect better against that defense and they run the ball. It's a night and day different game. So hopefully if they play again, we got Cosmi and either a more seasoned and better Conerly or Wylie in there.

Said differently, the stuff we said goofing on the Giants o line when they played Washington -- is nothing compared to how bad the Washington O line was. That O line looked like a joke on steroids compared to what we believe the Giants O line is. So in short, I don't think it holds that way on a rematch. Or in other words, either the Washington O line is atrocious and is bad as name that other bad O line like NY. Or it was a one off. Or it can be fixed when Cosmi is back and Conerly improves or is replaced by Wylie. No way this O line is this bad in a rematch would be my guess.

As bad as it felt, the whole game. I attribute the lopsided feel of it almost exclusively to Conerly and Allegretti. I've watched my share of games like this from the All 22. And i usually zone in mostly on O line and D line and did so again. In all of my years doing this, I can't recall a worst performance from an O lineman let alone two playing on the same side.

 

[skinsinparadise]

Saying it more succinctly.

Rewatching it, felt like they played their C game again with the coaches running an F on their end for their part of things. The C game sort of like they did against NY. But the difference is GB is a good team and they can exploit this team's C game by being sharp and well coached. And then Allegretti and Conerly were so bad -- the domino effect made it feel like an F because it effected Jayden and the passing game where they looked inept.

So to me its while a lot of guys didn't step up, i don't think most of the players looked terrible. But Quinn, Whitt, and Kliff were awful. And Conerly and Allegetti were awful. So when you are poorly coached, and two O lineman can't block to save their llves (that's 40% of the o line) And you are playing a great team. You are going to look awful.

It's the same story why the Giants have a bad o line but really fall apart when Thomas is out. That is, its hard enough to survive one glaring hole on the line but when you got multiple holes, its almost impossible to win let alone do so against an elite team. But if Coleman and Allegretti are going to play that level bad, you are screwed. And then you got Coleman with a poor game too albiet not an atrocious one like the other two. But, you aren't going to win. So that's not a macro global across the board problem. It's a micro problem that needs to be fixed. The O line has a ripple effect and man that was evidenced taking a closer look.

 

[tomwvr]

Well two players on season ending IR ...

 

[skinsinparadise]

Hopefully Jayden is OK

 

[tomwvr]

No one else is reporting this. ANd we wont see an injury report until monday. And Grant is right 2 time a day like a broken clock. 106.7 and 980 are shadows of what we used to have in DC sports talk radio.

 

[Kel Varnsen]

That particular play, I thought maybe it was his ankle based on how the tackle was. But he did grab higher towards his knee, which had me concerned. Hopefully it’s nothing and he’s just sore after the beating he took last night.

 

[skinsinparadise]

While no one else reported an MRI, multiple reporters said Jayden was limping in the locker room so am not dismissing Grant.

 

[skinsinparadise]