a 3rd next year and a 5th this year? are you joking?

[Knightingale]

The Trent thing was a bad smell lingering in the locker room and it needed to be gone.

Team gave him a chance to find a deal, he couldn't find one.

So the Skin's got it done. Is it what we hoped it would be? (I wanted a 2nd rounder this year!) No.
No one was offering a huge haul of picks, or what we wanted. This needed doing and got done and we got something out of it.

I don't think Trent did, did he? I haven't read about the deal in great detail but I don't think he got a new contract extension did he?

Now the team can move on. I love the decisiveness of the Rivera era. He's had to clean up a lot of the crap BA left behind and it's almost done.

 

[Ax]

He's earned the kicks Ax. I agree it's not productive since he is the owner and that won't change. But 'cripple'? He's the guy that's doing the crippling brother. It's been that way for 20 years. Your willingness to forgive notwithstanding. I used to argue the same thing. But I can't any more.

Never said he didn't earn the kicks. Maybe I just used the wrong euphemism.

Call him cripple, a sitting duck, a dead horse, or whatever doesn't offend ones opinion. I simply see it like this.
Snyder is the >>>OBVIOUS<<<, easy target. He >>>DESERVES<<< so much of the blame. (Feel better?)
I haven't forgiven him. I simply choose to waste very little of my life dwelling on it. Since, as you seem to realize, "he is the owner and that won't change".

So, whoever wants to take the easy route of bashing the little douchebag, (how's that) go for it. There are multitudes there with you, willing to spend time...
Picking on a cripple, like they've done something tough.
Shooting the sitting duck, like they're some great shot.
Or beating the dead horse, cause he's not dead enough.

Hell, I do the same things when it comes to things like, Pothead Crybaby, Greedy Lying Bastard, etc...
Of course, they only last a couple 3 years. Not 20+

For good measure....Snyder is short, goofy looking, and likely has bad breath. (How's that?)

 

[Ax]

And what I saw reported from many out there contradicts what "you" say on this. A 1st round pick was being discussed, and execs from the Browns stated they did make an offer. You can discount another fact all you want, but you're wrong on this one. Bruce Allen was just too stupid to take the deal.

Keim, while not given complete trust, has earned it more than any team reporter in recent memory. I base my assertions mostly on that. He has stated repeatedly, and confidently, that no offer was made. By anyone. Allen wouldn't even take the Browns call. No way an offer could have been made. Said he asked his contacts in Cleveland on a number of occasions, and was always told no offer was ever made. Especially not a 1st. Suggested that it was floated by someone trying to drive up the market. Which makes sense. And anyone could have been guilty of that. Including Allen. Maybe even Snyder. (Worst human...ever!) The other rumored offer supposedly came from Belicheat/Cheatriots. Who emphatically denied it. Now, they're not believable, at all. But again, according to Keim, and Finlay (Jocksniffer deluxe) their sources in New England supposedly back up the report that no offer was made. So then, the closest thing to a fact that exists, is that no team has come forward and stated, on the record, that they offered a 1st. In leu of that, I go with Keim, over the likes of a Dan Patrick. Does it fit nicely into my stance in the matter? Of course. Just like all the rumors suggesting otherwise, fits into your. We are both exercising our right to an opinion.

As for the hatred for Snyder, like I said...he did what I wanted last season when I stopped watching games. He fired Gruden, consulted Joe Gibbs, fired Allen, and hired a new coach with a new front office structure in place.

Dan Snyder is douchebag.

Oh yeah, and remember this as you scroll past my post...Bruce Allen screwed us out of 1st round compensation for Trent Williams last pre-season, take off your Cry-Baby Pothead Hating Sunglasses buddy.

1. I NEVER scroll past your posts.
2. Prove it. Rumors do not count as proof.
3. It's, Pothead Crybaby. And these damn sunglasses are only a couple years old.
4. Where as your Bruce Allen Hating Sunglasses are much, much older.

PS, Dan Snyder is a horrible owner.

 

[Boone]

Never said he didn't earn the kicks. Maybe I just used the wrong euphemism.

Call him cripple, a sitting duck, a dead horse, or whatever doesn't offend ones opinion. I simply see it like this.
Snyder is the >>>OBVIOUS<<<, easy target. He >>>DESERVES<<< so much of the blame. (Feel better?)
I haven't forgiven him. I simply choose to waste very little of my life dwelling on it. Since, as you seem to realize, "he is the owner and that won't change".

So, whoever wants to take the easy route of bashing the little douchebag, (how's that) go for it. There are multitudes there with you, willing to spend time...
Picking on a cripple, like they've done something tough.
Shooting the sitting duck, like they're some great shot.
Or beating the dead horse, cause he's not dead enough.

Hell, I do the same things when it comes to things like, Pothead Crybaby, Greedy Lying Bastard, etc...
Of course, they only last a couple 3 years. Not 20+

For good measure....Snyder is short, goofy looking, and likely has bad breath. (How's that?)

'Easy' has nothing to do with it. Facts are facts. Snyder's been a terrible owner and generally despicable human being from the moment he bought the team. Period. If you find it annoying that Redskins fans continue to point it out, that sounds like a personal problem

 

[Ax]

'Easy' has nothing to do with it. Facts are facts. Snyder's been a terrible owner and generally despicable human being from the moment he bought the team. Period. If you find it annoying that Redskins fans continue to point it out, that sounds like a personal problem

Nah, no problem. I just failed to read the fine print that says unless you continually point out his warts, you are automatically a loyal Dan Snyder worshiper.

Obligatory statement: Dan Snyder is a privileged prick.

 

[Boone]

Look brother Ax, I have been a 'Snyder defender' - at least by the average Skins fan's definition of that - for years. I even wanted to give Bruce Allen the benefit of the doubt. Up until the past few seasons I viewed him as a well-intentioned exec whose main failing was that he was more political glad-hander than a football mind. In more recent years, I began to see that he was all about maintaining control and power and had zero problem hurting the organization if it further entrenched his ability to call the shots and be Snyder's primary sycophant. Snyder loved Allen because he was a mirror image of himself. He can wrap himself up in Joe-Gibbsian tripe all he wants, but he's not 'misunderstood' and a victim of horribly misguided media-bias. He's a control freak and a cutthroat businessman who clearly has a Napoleon complex.

You're right that there's no point in restating that over and over. But to be fair - any discussion related to the entire past 20 years is nothing but one long bitch session. There's no avoiding that. For me, debating whether Beelzebub is 100% responsible for the disaster, or only 92% responsible - is splitting hairs.

Anyway... despite rumors to the contrary, still a free country and all are welcome to disagree with any and all opinions, be they staff or fellow member ones.

 

[Bulldog]

A lot of this to me is amusing 😏

Hand wringing over things that were all but decided long ago, before Rivera came here.

Trent Williams was done here and the compensation would be limited based on the window closing at the trade deadline in 2019.

But what does all of have to do with the future here? Not much.

When Joe Gibbs came here in 1981 the Redskins had made ONE first round pick that stuck since Charley Taylor in 1964, namely Art Monk in 1980.

The team had spent a high #1 pick in 1978 to acquire two 33 year old Bengals, Coy Bacon and Lamar Parrish. By 1981 both were gone.

This team was rebuilding largely with middle to late round picks and free agents.

The lack of first round picks and record of poor trades up through 1980 didn’t prevent Gibbs and Beathard from succeeding in the long run.

If Kyle Smith knows what he is doing it won’t matter here in 2020 going forward either.

 

[Ax]

Look brother Ax, I have been a 'Snyder defender' - at least by the average Skins fan's definition of that - for years. I even wanted to give Bruce Allen the benefit of the doubt. Up until the past few seasons I viewed him as a well-intentioned exec whose main failing was that he was more political glad-hander than a football mind. In more recent years, I began to see that he was all about maintaining control and power and had zero problem hurting the organization if it further entrenched his ability to call the shots and be Snyder's primary sycophant. Snyder loved Allen because he was a mirror image of himself. He can wrap himself up in Joe-Gibbsian tripe all he wants, but he's not 'misunderstood' and a victim of horribly misguided media-bias. He's a control freak and a cutthroat businessman who clearly has a Napoleon complex.

You're right that there's no point in restating that over and over. But to be fair - any discussion related to the entire past 20 years is nothing but one long bitch session. There's no avoiding that. For me, debating whether Beelzebub is 100% responsible for the disaster, or only 92% responsible - is splitting hairs.

Anyway... despite rumors to the contrary, still a free country and all are welcome to disagree with any and all opinions, be they staff or fellow member ones.

Haven't disagreed with you. Just saw that by not joining in, I'm believed to be on the opposite side of the fence. So, to prove my dissatisfaction, I'm simply trying join in.

Snyder sucks ass, and Bruce did too.

 

[riggins44]

The way I see it is the drama is finally over. Time to move on.

 

[fansince62]

It's a silly argument this what you got for him is what he's worth. Nonsense. By definition that means every trade is at full value....what some would call a tautology. It's especially silly since we don't know what MN and other teams offered. It's also off the mark because it assumes the NFL players "market" meets the definitional aspects of a competitive market. I highly doubt that as well; in fact, will state it's anything but that. Hence, the CBA, franchise tags, buddy network, trading outside the division, imperfect information, etc., etc.

On to other silliness.

 

[Neophyte]

It's a silly argument this what you got for him is what he's worth. Nonsense. By definition, that means every trade is at full value....what some would call a tautology. It's especially silly since we don't know what MN and other teams offered. It's also off the mark because it assumes the NFL player's "market" meets the definitional aspects of a competitive market. I highly doubt that as well; in fact, will state it's anything but that. Hence, the CBA, franchise tags, buddy network, ytraf=ding outside the division, etc., etc.

On to other silliness.

Unless there is something shady going on under the covers, it is kind of the very definition of free-market economics. I have a widget that I want to sell. You want to buy a widget. I think it's worth $100. You don't want to pay that and no one else is willing to pay that either. I might still consider the widget worth $100 but no one is buying it. By this very fact, it is fair to say that the widget isn't worth $100. It is the very heart of capitalism.

Now add to this equation the idea that the widget gets a say in the sale.

 

[Henry]

I don't have a whole lot of original thought to add here. I was thrilled when I heard about the trade. Not because I thought the Skins got an awesome deal, but because Trent needed to go. He wanted to go. We wanted him to go. He wasn't going to play here.

The Redskins got something for him. That's better than nothing. That's really it.

Do I think the Redskins screwed up the entire situation last season? Yes I do. Do I think things are all different and better now? No clue. Snyder is still the owner, so I'll believe things are different when things are actually different. "Thing just feel different this year" doesn't count.

Lastly, Dan Snyder. He's a terrible owner. Do I want to dwell on that fact? No. Does it make me feel good, or powerful, or smart to point it out? No.
In fact, I think it sucks that he's a terrible owner. But I can't pretend he isn't one to protect the feelings of fans who only want to see the bright side of things. I'll continue to point it out when it's pertinent to the discussion. That's just how it is. Sorry.

 

[fansince62]

I'll bet my advanced degree in economics that the NFL players market does not meet the criteria/assumptions that underlie free market theory. I bet the players would as well.

How do the 49ers know the condition of the widget they are buying? In the event, you haven't addressed the main point. The argument put forward is ridiculous on its face. For NFL players, what you get is not always fair value. The players market is not competitive. It's highly managed. Moreover, if you want to get technical, there's a great deal of product differentiation. Whatever else it is...it's not the classical free market.

 

[Neophyte]

I'll bet my advanced degree in economics that the NFL players market does not meet the criteria/assumptions that underlie free market theory. I bet the players would as well.

How do the 49ers know the condition of the widget they are buying? In the event, you haven't addressed the main point. The argument put forward is ridiculous on its face. For NFL players, what you get is not always fair value. The players market is not competitive. It's highly managed. Moreover, if you want to get technical, there's a great deal of product differentiation. Whatever else it is...it's not the classical free market.

Highly managed how? You act like this is the airline industry pre-Reagan deregulation where prices were fixed. They aren't fixed. Is it skewed in favor of the teams? Probably, but that doesn't change much visa ve this discussion. And that is without considering that most products don't have any say at all in whether they are bought and sold. Often, NFL players do.

Let's go back to my widget example. In theory, I have the whole world to sell my widget to. In reality, some people don't need my widget because they have something that will do the job already. Others can't afford my widget no matter how much they need it. In this way, my market gets smaller really quick until I am left with only a handful of suiters who both need my widget and can afford my widget. This is all without factoring in other considerations: how long will the widget last? what might a new widget cost instead? what can be done with the funds instead of buying the widget? will this widget work as well in the new environment as it did in the old?

NFL trades are complex and are mostly a crapshoot under the best of circumstances. Through in all crap circumstances in this case, and I am actually a bit stunned anyone wanted the Redskins widget at all.

 

[fansince62]

Probably?!!!!

The buyers and sellers both exercise market power (though it's still heavily weighted to the mega-billions corprate NFL side of the scale). It's not a free market. The cap is a major market distortion.

The better avenue might be to ask: "Ok....how are the goods to be sold and bought valued?"

 

[Neophyte]

Probably?!!!!

The buyers and sellers both exercise market power. It's not a free market. The cap is a major market distortion.

The better avenue might be to ask: "Ok....how are the goods to be sold and bought valued?"

How is the cap a major market disruption anymore than any other factor teams have to contend with? It is a static factor that all teams have to deal with.

 

[Rymanofthenorth]

OK so some common sense that is being ignored.

1- timing is everything when it comes to trades. If we had not panicked and acted like morons, at this point, after the first round of the draft, when his value would have been driven down, if we wait until the start of the season, TW's value goes up not down. if we did not trade him on or before day one of the draft, then you wait until the season starts and teams suddenly find that the first round LT they drafted isnt really all that good and is gonna get their million dollar franchise qb killed. by trading him on day two of the draft, AFTER TEAMS WHO WERE DESPERATE FOR LEFT TACKLES HAD DRAFTED LT's. we minimised his value. a pro bowl and all ro LT in his prime and we got a garbage pick this year and a 3rd next year from a team that will likely be in the super bowl or deep in the playoffs?

2-it doesn't matter that TW didn't want to play here, he was under contract, he had no leverage, but we got outwitted by the niners, plain and simple, they were in a hole with staley retiring (something most of us already knew about) and for the skins to get outmaneuvered like that is beyond excuse.

3- the market dictates value, but if you do not get the value you are looking for, then you do not sell, its really simple. LT is a premier position, you wait and someone will bite. our problem is that allen was a retard and didnt trade TW when his value was at its highest, so then you still maximise his value by choosing your timing. I guarantee someone would have traded more value if we had timed it smarter.

and what really pisses me off is we rewarded that pot head loser and let him go where he wanted.

 

[Rymanofthenorth]

as for shamahan and AH I absolutely blame shamahan for the entire AH debacle, it was shammys idiocy that brought us a decade of defensive crapulence, his refusal to play a defence we were suited for and his attempt to force ah to be a NT led directly to AH becoming a contrarian turd. He took the best DT in the league who even when playing halfass was solid, to being a useless lazy quitter.

 

[Rymanofthenorth]

Rymanofthenorth, I would rarely say this, because I appreciate anyone who posts here and provides content. But you need to learn the difference between a 'post' and a 'thread' brother. There are 4 or 5 threads with Trent Williams discussions going already. There's absolutely no need to start a thread simply to convey 'I don't think we got enough in the trade for him'.

And if you do care enough about a topic to post a thread about it - take the 10 extra seconds it takes to capitalize letters appropriately - like EVERY other thread you have ever seen here.

It ain't rocket science bro.

If this seems petty - maybe it is - but I've also waited numerous years without mentioning it

a few things.
I debated about replying, ignoring you or just leaving.
1- I looked at the forum before posting thanks.
2-this is a football forum not a grammar or punctuation forum, and since im often on my phone and have fat thumbs im probably not gonna capitalise shit. if you don't like it, don't read it. not my problem.
3- when I post, people often engage because I give an actual opinion that can be argued for or against, hence this thread got several replies because guys actually engage when I post. so yeah it is rocket science only you don't seem to understand it. engagement matters more than capitalisation.

next time keep your snark to yourself or you will end up with a dead forum.

 

[Elephant]

It's a silly argument this what you got for him is what he's worth. Nonsense. By definition that means every trade is at full value....what some would call a tautology. It's especially silly since we don't know what MN and other teams offered. It's also off the mark because it assumes the NFL players "market" meets the definitional aspects of a competitive market. I highly doubt that as well; in fact, will state it's anything but that. Hence, the CBA, franchise tags, buddy network, trading outside the division, imperfect information, etc., etc.

On to other silliness.

We in the real estate market like to say market dictates price, because that's how things go in the real estate market. A house will sell for what it sells for, the market always dictates it.

I guess that's not how the rest of the world's market go.

OK so some common sense that is being ignored.
but we got outwitted by the niners, plain and simple, they were in a hole with staley retiring (something most of us already knew about) and for the skins to get outmaneuvered like that is beyond excuse.

I call.

At the point of the trade, Rivera and Smith just wanted him out of the building. So while I agree, and mentioned it several times over the course of this whole Trent fiasco, a trade before the season would net us the most when teams were more desperate.

However, it came down to the same thing as the Quinton Dunbar situation...get him outta here so we can move on. This is what you get for him when he has become a disease. We got what we could before he became a cancer.

I don't see you admonishing Bill Belichek for letting Collins go for a ham sandwich, coming off an all-pro year.

Sometimes you gotta just cut bait. We did. Championship teams do it, why shouldn't we?

Move on.