Could it be Tua?

[Henry]

You mean Cousins who threw garbage stats so much that now even Vikings fans know it? Nice try.

Dunno what to tell you. 6 and on-the-way to 4 is not far better than 6-3-1.

 

[Primus Porcus]

I think this offense could be significantly better than last year and still qualify. Our offense last year was that bad.

I think, with a decent free agent WR and solid rookie TE and a healthy, non-drop-off AP or a solid rookie RB, and an ok LT from somewhere ... perhaps our offense could rank on the low side of average? That would be a big jump for us. That's a big shopping list, though. And it's not one I'd think we could fill all in one season. And everything has to hit. Oh, and we could probably use a RT, and we haven't re-signed Scherff yet.

My point, before we got into a debate over semantics, was that given all of those holes/question marks, we may as well look to the future at QB rather than spin our wheels with a guy who isn't going to be on the team in two years. And/or I think it would be crazy to rob ourselves of a draft pick to add another position (QB) to that list.

Our defense is in much better shape. So there's that.

Anyway, that is all. Have good day everyone.

I get it, I guess my sliding scale of 'suck' is different than yours, which is fine. I guess if we want to get literal, our offense likely will not be a strength, and the 'low side of average' is not sucking. Sucking is bottom 3rd to me. Sucking is not being able to score points, establish a game plan, or effectively execute a system. Alex Smith's offense sucked on paper but was 6 - 3 prior to the game he got hurt. It did what it was supposed to do. Jimmy G sucked vs the Vikings (11 / 19 - 131 - 1td - 1int). That 'sucks' but they won the game 27-10. The offense did what it was intended. This isn't a 'he just wins tho' argument either, because I get the bigger picture, but the ability to execute the intended offense, while maintaining a game plan isn't always the sexiest way to win football games. Haskins lost to the Giants pretty sexy last year in week 17.

 

[Henry]

I get it, I guess my sliding scale of 'suck' is different than yours, which is fine. I guess if we want to get literal, our offense likely will not be a strength, and the 'low side of average' is not sucking. Sucking is bottom 3rd to me. Sucking is not being able to score points, establish a game plan, or effectively execute a system. Alex Smith's offense sucked on paper but was 6 - 3 prior to the game he got hurt. It did what it was supposed to do. Jimmy G sucked vs the Vikings (11 / 19 - 131 - 1td - 1int). That 'sucks' but they won the game 27-10. The offense did what it was intended. This isn't a 'he just wins tho' argument either, because I get the bigger picture, but the ability to execute the intended offense, while maintaining a game plan isn't always the sexiest way to win football games. Haskins lost to the Giants pretty sexy last year in week 17.

For the record, I'm pretty sure the Redskins won't fill all those holes this year. I think this team is looking at a three year plan. I'm hoping for 'low side of average' next year. This year I think the offense is going to suck (but I'll keep it lower case ).

I don't think that's bad or means the Redskins are a terrible team or anything. Rebuilding takes time, especially on the side of the ball where the cupboard is particularly bare. My 'let's just say it' was just supposed to be a reminder of that. Of course lightning could strike. Something unexpected could happen. The planets could align.

We can all hope for that. But given the amount of holes we're dealing with ... I think it's highly unlikely.

 

[DieselPwr44]

No you haven't...we are seeing a different type of QB. The NFL has never seen a QB like Patrick Mahomes...he's a completely different breed than just a running QB. And if you cannot see it's happening right in front of you, you're not watching the NFL.

Randall Cunningham: Qb of the future

Kordell Stewart: Qb of the future
Dante Culpepper
Mike Vick
Colin Kaepernick
RG3, etc

The list goes on and on how they were the new wave...evolution of the Qb. Have to find somebody like them because that's the trend the league's going in. Get a Qb like that or get left behind.
All of the stuff you're hearing about Mahomes,Jackson etc. was said about all the aforementioned.

And I do see it happening before me...the same old record, skipping.

Mahomes and Jackson are just the latest flavors to come along.

 

[Elephant]

For the record, I'm pretty sure the Redskins won't fill all those holes this year. I think this team is looking at a three year plan. I'm hoping for 'low side of average' next year. This year I think the offense is going to suck (but I'll keep it lower case ).

I don't think that's bad or means the Redskins are a terrible team or anything. Rebuilding takes time, especially on the side of the ball where the cupboard is particularly bare. My 'let's just say it' was just supposed to be a reminder of that. Of course lightning could strike. Something unexpected could happen. The planets could align.

We can all hope for that. But given the amount of holes we're dealing with ... I think it's highly unlikely.

I don't think you're far off with that assessment, I just think the same team from a year ago with more discipline wins at least 2 more games. Add some talent at areas of need, a scheme that is far less complicated than Gruden's and I could see winning 7, maybe 8 games next year.

Before the off-season acquisition of new players, I am putting the over/under at 5.5. If Trent plays, add a vet WR, draft and sign a TE, tag Scherff, and add a RB who can compete with the oft injured Guice, we could win 8 games with our defense being the strong point.

Of course may be a tall order for player acquisition, but very possible. At the point we are able to fill some of those positions with serviceable players, Haskins needs to step up...but 8 wins is not out of reach. We were an 7-9 win team for 3 season prior to last year's collapse. A collapse I lay at the feet of one Jay Gruden.

 

[Elephant]

Randall Cunningham: Qb of the future

Kordell Stewart: Qb of the future
Dante Culpepper
Mike Vick
Colin Kaepernick
RG3, etc

The list goes on and on how they were the new wave...evolution of the Qb. Have to find somebody like them because that's the trend the league's going in. Get a Qb like that or get left behind.
All of the stuff you're hearing about Mahomes,Jackson etc. was said about all the aforementioned.

And I do see it happening before me...the same old record, skipping.

Mahomes and Jackson are just the latest flavors to come along.

Mahomes is the latest flavor? He just won a Super Bowl. I'll have a double scoop of that flavor, please! Thanks for supporting my assertion.

Look, ever since Russell Wilson broke the mold of "typical" pocket passer, the top QB's taken in the draft are clearly going from big strong, pocket passer to QB's who are still considered pocket passers, but have the ability to avoid pressure when plays break down because they are quick and elusive.

2015 James Winston
2016 Jared Goff
2017 Mitchell Trubisky was the first QB drafted, but Chicago made a huge mistake , Mahomes was the 2nd QB taken.
2018 Baker Mayfield
2019 Kyler Murray


I'm not talking about the Lamar Jackson's and RG3's of the NFL who have an entire offense molded around their ability to run, that is the old mold of which you are correct...did not have success in the NFL, none of those QB's ever won it all.

But in today's NFL the mold is transforming, and the success of Russell Wilson and Patrick Mahomes...you know a couple of super bowl winning QB's...are breaking the old mold of strictly pocket passers like Tom Brady and Payton Manning.

It IS happening before you. The mold IS changing.

 

[MikefromOH]

Dunno what to tell you. 6 and on-the-way to 4 is not far better than 6-3-1.

dunno what to tell you, either. Your recollection of Cousins' talent is shocking. considering we were still in the lead of the division and winning I can only chalk it up to the PTSD of being a fan. But, I am not that guy. I shake it off every year and move back to the top.

 

[Henry]

dunno what to tell you, either. Your recollection of Cousins' talent is shocking. considering we were still in the lead of the division and winning I can only chalk it up to the PTSD of being a fan. But, I am not that guy. I shake it off every year and move back to the top.

Cousins may or may not be whatever it is you think he is, but 6-3-losing a game is not far better than 6-3-1.

 

[Knightingale]

Just chiming in quickly on this one with my two cents.

When I think of Tua, I get all kinds of alarm bells. Not with his play, but with the fact that it just plays into things that this franchise seems to have been known for over the last decade.

I know medical science is better than it was, but Tua's injuries sounded serious. I hope he's fully fit and well, but we have a horrible reputation here of gambling on players with injury history. Maybe a new training staff will sort that issue out... maybe not. But this my gut feel on this is to stop taking risks on players with that kind of history.

Secondly, I really don't want a QB controversy here again. And while every one is raving about Tua, how many times have we seen top drafted QB's bust and bust badly. RGIII? Trubisky? Mariota?
Maybe these guys aren't on the level of Tua, but they were once deemed worthy of the #2 pick. With QB's there seems no real guarantees... and talking of which...

Thirdly, we're not just one player away from success and by almost all accounts Chase Young is the once in a lifetime generational talent in this draft. We need blue chip players. I don't want to pass on Chase, especially when I look at Haskins and like the potential we have there. I'm not completely sold on Haskins, but I think there's enough potential there to give him a try and build the team up around him. If he busts in a year or two, then draft a new QB then.

I'm hating the mess this is all stirring up honestly. I know it might be a lot of posturing pre-draft and game playing, but I just wanted a nice quiet off season after all the controversy we've had lately.

 

[MikefromOH]

Cousins may or may not be whatever it is you think he is, but 6-3-losing a game is not far better than 6-3-1.

may or may not be....sure. You go ahead and ride that boat as far as you can in this ocean of Skins fans. I'll be standing by with a buoy and a beer when you are finished.

 

[MisterPinstripe]

If we draft Tua I'm going to be all over the place with my emotions. I really want Chase Young and not getting him would be a major disappointment. Having basically the team say they wasted a pick on Haskins would also be a disappointment. But I also couldn't help but at the same time feel excited, you can't help that with the hope of finally finding the elite franchise QB that changes everything.

I'm still hoping that Haskins is that guy and Young joins him.

 

[Henry]

may or may not be....sure. You go ahead and ride that boat as far as you can in this ocean of Skins fans. I'll be standing by with a buoy and a beer when you are finished.

Its sounds like youre trying to pick a fight about Cousins. Let me clear the air: I dont care about Cousins. I didn’t bring him up. He’s gone. Whatever he could or could not have accomplished here is now irrelevant.

But if you think he’s terrible and over-rated, you might want to consider that the incomparable Alex Smith’s magical 6-3 run was not ‘far better’ than anything that awful, rotten and foul-smelling Cousins did here. Their best seasons with the Redskins were actually quite similar ... well, until Smith’s leg snapped in two.

Just something to think about.

 

[Oldguyfromchester]

Please indulge an old fan here. We all know the root problem of everything that has gone wrong with this franchise over the past 20 years. If only God had stepped in to keep the team with the Cooke family. The old squire was a great owner. Now we have a greedy clown who sell fans peanuts that were bought on the cheap because their due date has passed. Can this team ever return to glory with Dan Snyder as the owner?

 

[Boone]

Snyder is pretty much the debil. I can't imagine anyone would argue against the idea that he's pretty much not only systematically destroyed this franchise...he's done something I didn't think anyone could ever do - he's transformed this fanbase into a shadow of what it once once. I wish bad things on him - I am ashamed to admit it.

I have zero confidence we'd have been successful after JKC (I'm not even sure JKC had that much to do with it, other than getting lucky with guys like Gibbs and Beathard). His progeny did not seem to have the same magic touch and capability that he himself did. I suspect we'd have experienced a fairly bad 20 years. But at least we wouldn't be wishing bad things on our owner, and I think far fewer fans would've been driven off as they have been by the Dark Lord.

 

[fansince62]

Its sounds like youre trying to pick a fight about Cousins. Let me clear the air: I dont care about Cousins. I didn’t bring him up. He’s gone. Whatever he could or could not have accomplished here is now irrelevant.

But if you think he’s terrible and over-rated, you might want to consider that the incomparable Alex Smith’s magical 6-3 run was not ‘far better’ than anything that awful, rotten and foul-smelling Cousins did here. Their best seasons with the Redskins were actually quite similar ... well, until Smith’s leg snapped in two.

Just something to think about.

I looked at Alex's 2018 stats and you are right. His fauilt or not, he wasn't even middle of the pack stat-wise - except for ints/int % where he was near the top (as in among the lowest). The passing game was abysmal - I think many forget that. He was averaging around 218 yards a game; his completion rate was 62.5%, a horrific 10 TDs over 10 games...and so on. I recall thinking at the time that his strength was he played smart. As I recall, it was the defense that played well early on holding teams to an 11 point average in 8 of the first 10 games - while getting blown out in the NO and ATL games.

 

[MikefromOH]

Its sounds like youre trying to pick a fight about Cousins. Let me clear the air: I dont care about Cousins. I didn’t bring him up. He’s gone. Whatever he could or could not have accomplished here is now irrelevant.

But if you think he’s terrible and over-rated, you might want to consider that the incomparable Alex Smith’s magical 6-3 run was not ‘far better’ than anything that awful, rotten and foul-smelling Cousins did here. Their best seasons with the Redskins were actually quite similar ... well, until Smith’s leg snapped in two.

Just something to think about.

it sounds like you picked to defend Cousins when I said he was crap and a garbage stat player. You seem to care about him because you have continued to talk about him. If it was irrelevant, you wouldn't have made the comments you did. Plain and simple.

It was better. It was cheaper, and it was getting the job done. We actually won close games instead of throwing interceptions or getting mass stats once the game was already out of reach.

 

[Henry]

it sounds like you picked to defend Cousins when I said he was crap and a garbage stat player. You seem to care about him because you have continued to talk about him. If it was irrelevant, you wouldn't have made the comments you did. Plain and simple.

I talked about him in comparison to Smith, who’s record as a starter and who’s performance in the game against the Texans you incorrectly stated. Then you followed that up with an erroneous statement about Cousins (that Smith’s half season was ‘far better’ than anything Cousins has done.) If you had incorrectly compared Smith to Rex Grossman I would have pointed that out instead. But you picked Cousins.

I refused to defend Cousins like three times after that. You kept on it. I don't know why. I just posted some of his stats, without praise or criticism. If you thought Cousins was a crappy QB, Smith’s relative performance shouldn't be all that impressive. That was my point.

It was better. It was cheaper, and it was getting the job done. We actually won close games instead of throwing interceptions or getting mass stats once the game was already out of reach.

6-3 (technically 6-4) as a starter is not better. You talk about Smith’s Redskins leading the division. Cousins actually won the division once. Big deal. But you know what? It’s better than 6-4 and getting hurt. I’m not saying that to heap praise upon Cousins, but to put Smith’s ten games here into perspective.

Again, Smith is old and busted. He hasn't played in over a year, and even if he miraculously gets up to speed in time, he’s not a long term solution here. Why would a team working on a long term strategy, in desperate need of developing a young QB and the young talent around him, ever consider starting a guy like that? It would be a waste of valuable time we need to get the young guys experience while the coach is still on his honeymoon.

Smith is our Eli Manning, without the decades of goodwill. Its time to move on.

 

[MikefromOH]

I talked about him in comparison to Smith, who’s record as a starter and who’s performance in the game against the Texans you incorrectly stated. Then you followed that up with an erroneous statement about Cousins (that Smith’s half season was ‘far better’ than anything Cousins has done.) If you had incorrectly compared Smith to Rex Grossman I would have pointed that out instead. But you picked Cousins.

I refused to defend Cousins like three times after that. You kept on it. I don't know why. I just posted some of his stats, without praise or criticism. If you thought Cousins was a crappy QB, Smith’s relative performance shouldn't be all that impressive. That was my point.



6-3 (technically 6-4) as a starter is not better. You talk about Smith’s Redskins leading the division. Cousins actually won the division once. Big deal. But you know what? It’s better than 6-4 and getting hurt. I’m not saying that to heap praise upon Cousins, but to put Smith’s ten games here into perspective.

Again, Smith is old and busted. He hasn't played in over a year, and even if he miraculously gets up to speed in time, he’s not a long term solution here. Why would a team working on a long term strategy, in desperate need of developing a young QB and the young talent around him, ever consider starting a guy like that? It would be a waste of valuable time we need to get the young guys experience while the coach is still on his honeymoon.

Smith is our Eli Manning, without the decades of goodwill. Its time to move on.

yes, and so did I. I was incorrect in my stats on the score of that game...we almost won it. You got me with that technicality.

No, YOU decided to try to defend him and go with something that made it look like I was dogging someone for garbage stats and you didn't agree.

It actually IS better. Cousins went 9-7 at best.

No, your opinion of him is that he is old and busted. You've been trying to push everyone else to believe it whether they agree or not. So much so that you "had" to make sure we all knew we were going to "suuuuuuuuuuck". Why would a team consider him? He's under contract already and we need a vet in the lineup. Someone who can show him the way either as starter or back up. Ta-dah! simple magic!


....and, this is the last I will say on it. I am not going to go back and forth and ruin a good post. Not my style any longer.

 

[Henry]

I looked at Alex's 2018 stats and you are right. His fauilt or not, he wasn't even middle of the pack stat-wise - except for ints/int % where he was near the top (as in among the lowest). The passing game was abysmal - I think many forget that. He was averaging around 218 yards a game; his completion rate was 62.5%, a horrific 10 TDs over 10 games...and so on. I recall thinking at the time that his strength was he played smart. As I recall, it was the defense that played well early on holding teams to an 11 point average in 8 of the first 10 games - while getting blown out in the NO and ATL games.

And we were losing against Houston 17-7 in the third quarter when he went out. Yeah we almost came back and won the game, but that was after he left.

Smith was 27th in passer rating, 27th in yards per game, 29th in yards per attempt, 32nd in TD percentage. His one saving grace was that he didn't turn the ball over. That's it. And as we saw against Houston, if he makes on bad throw the game gets out of reach real quick. We didn't win one game that year when the opposing team scored more than 17 points. Not one.

As you said earlier in the thread, production matters. If we are going to move forward and develop our youth, not throwing INTs is not enough.

 

[Henry]

I don't think you're far off with that assessment, I just think the same team from a year ago with more discipline wins at least 2 more games. Add some talent at areas of need, a scheme that is far less complicated than Gruden's and I could see winning 7, maybe 8 games next year.

Before the off-season acquisition of new players, I am putting the over/under at 5.5. If Trent plays, add a vet WR, draft and sign a TE, tag Scherff, and add a RB who can compete with the oft injured Guice, we could win 8 games with our defense being the strong point.

Of course may be a tall order for player acquisition, but very possible. At the point we are able to fill some of those positions with serviceable players, Haskins needs to step up...but 8 wins is not out of reach. We were an 7-9 win team for 3 season prior to last year's collapse. A collapse I lay at the feet of one Jay Gruden.

Yeah, I'd think 7 or 8 wins is the top end of what the Redskins can expect this year. And most of that would be on the back of the defense.

If they manage to re-vamp half the offense and Haskins plays well, good things could happen. That is a huge 'if', though.

The one nit I have to pick is upon whose feet I lay the collapse. Yes, Gruden gets some of that, but so does Allen and, sadly, Dan Snyder. What share of the blame each of them should get, I do not know. I think we will find out soon.