ESPN: Shanahan was ready to quit in '12

Never meant it as being above the fray. Just don't personally see the hysteria as being useful.

So? Giving a damn one way or the other about any of this isn't useful. Rooting for a team isn't useful. Rooting against a team isn't useful. Posting on a messageboard about the color of the uniforms or the name of the team isn't useful.

So like I said, either you care about the reality TV show that is NFL football or you don't. Pretending that one aspect of this unimportant diversion matters less than another ... now that's funny. Just say "I don't care about that" and move on.

And if the opinions and reactions of our fellow fans and board-mates was so goddamn important, they wouldn't be questioned/debated, every single day, in every single thread. Don't single me out.

Unless I don't deserve it.

I have to admit I have no idea what you're saying here. I don't have a problem with debate at all. Frankly I'd rather see that than talk about this.

Do you have something you'd like to debate or are you just gonna snipe?
 
So? Giving a damn one way or the other about any of this isn't useful. Rooting for a team isn't useful. Rooting against a team isn't useful. Posting on a messageboard about the color of the uniforms or the name of the team isn't useful.
No Henry....Giving a damn is required. I didn't know stating how melodramatic the expression around here, by some, is comical to me, was somehow outside the norm. My apologies. Everyone can squeal as they see fit.

So like I said, either you care about the reality TV show that is NFL football or you don't. Pretending that one aspect of this unimportant diversion matters less than another ... now that's funny. Just say "I don't care about that" and move on.
I guess I could. Or, I could get all animated and jump on the "OH My God, Whatever Shall We Do" Dramarama Train. Then somebody might like my post, and I'd be somebody!!!!



I have to admit I have no idea what you're saying here. I don't have a problem with debate at all. Frankly I'd rather see that than talk about this.

Do you have something you'd like to debate or are you just gonna snipe?
Well, my comment was more directed to the "reaction" part of the sentence. Meaning, posters reaction to things are questioned, mocked, debated, etc.. all the time. But THIS time, I somehow broke the honored code of fellow fan/poster treatment.

Whatever.

Kumbaya!
 
Boone, its not about getting a franchise qb, that isnt why this was a bad move, its about THE ORDER in which you get one. getting a franchise qb before you have an oline to protect him , receivers to help him or a running back to take the pressure off him, is just bad football. I have no doubt snyder was ok with it, ffs the guy is a fantasy football fan but lets be honest here, it was yet another "win more games right away" move.

I disagree. Your plan is great and all, but it relies on franchise QB's being available often and everyone being able to pick them out when they are. You and I both know that's not only hard, but it's damn near impossible. It just doesn't happen that way.

Russell Wilson is considered Seattles franchise QB - He wasn't touted as one.
Aaron Rodgers wasn't a top overall pick.
Neither was Tom Brady.

Franchise QB's aren't grown on trees and pretending we could just wait until the next one comes around is complete nonsense. Where's the franchise QB this year? There isn't one, but I'm sure 5 years form now there will be a guy that was picked that worked out that we'll all wonder how he was missed, and if we would have been better waiting to get him instead of trading up to get griffin.

Griffin was widely considered a can't miss prospect - we had the ammunition to move up and take him, so we did. After decades of not having a franchise QB (we haven't really had one since Theismann.)

Hindsight is great and allows for all sorts of fun speculation and arguments, but at the end of the day Griffin was a once in a generation talent that we moved up to get. If he doesn't work out that's on our organization (owner, GM, coaches, and players) for not making it work out. It's not a referendum on the idea of getting a franchise QB when he's available.
 
Twenty five years ago, nobody gave a crap about a players parents. It's a different media world today.

Hell, the Gibbs, or Allen era's could not be repeated under today's microscope.

And really, it's not a big deal, except in the minds of those who allow it to be.

It doesn't prevent defenders from making tackles, does it?
 
Who else's parents are in the media?

The Mannings are the only one I can think of, and he used to play football and has his own celebrity about him.

It's one thing if he wants to be a part of what his son is doing, it's another if he's going to go on an offseason campaign sniping at the coaching staff, but that's just my opinion.
 
The thing is, going off of media sources and the fun rides they take you on is a bit like this video of psychics:

Psychic Fail - The One (Aussie show) - YouTube

Yes, occasionally you will find the helicopter, as it were. But it is silly to pretend you are doing anything other than taking a stroll through the forest. Enjoy the walk, but defending it as seeing the way clearer than others just paints you in a bad light. It's fun to delve into the media mass and see the circus every now and again; you may even be the one that finds the thread of truth. You often won't know what is accurate until everybody else does though.
 
hmmm. I was going to start a separate thread related to all of this. but why not dive in head first to the shallow end like everyone else :)

so….I shelled some bucks out to go to the KC game w/my daughter. our one game. we drove back to VA Bch about mid-way thru the second quarter. Below has immediate reflections from the game…and then some bigger picture thoughts. all caveated by: I don't think any of us have a real clue what is going on in terms of the power plays.

Game

- RGII is playing badly. has been. you can see it: not reading well, passing mechanics are off, getting clobbered both in the pocket and on QB runs. his accuracy is horrendous. way off the mark on several early passes - I knew we were doomed. he should be benched. right now, he, ummmm, well, sucks. let's face it - Shanahan probably knew all along RGIII should not have started game 1. no preseason and into the frying pan. he never had a chance.

- no secret: this offensive line is really, really bad…especially the RT. it's even worse watching him live than on TV. KC defense physically manhandled that line.

- we lack team speed. I don't care what the watch clock says. you can see it on the field. you can see it with our receivers. this places an even heavier premium on play-calling. that does work. Kyle's play calling isn't as bad as some think - as I thought. the players just aren't executing and lack the required talent in some instances.

- we need a fast RB for change of pace. Shanahan knows that - it's why he drafted the way he did last draft. nothing materialized so a known weakness has persisted.

- the defense. well, we all know that story. with the exception of 2, maybe 3, players, the whole unit needs to be rebuilt, new coaches, etc., etc. it's just awful, awful, awful. no speed, no size, no aggressiveness. can't tackle worth a lick. it's embarrassing.

- special teams. well, another known story. my observation was that it looked entirely reactive to me. folks were maintaining positions (more than reported), but they just seemed to be fixed in space at a certain point with a KC blocker keeping them occupied. I watched several KC players, on the other hand, who were initially blocked, but they shed the block and utilized good speed to tackle the ball carrier anyway. speed. size. will power. our STs lack all three. and the kickers? well, they have been short all season. others have remarked on a stupid strategy of constantly kicking down the middle of the field on a strong return team like KC. who is calling the shots here? who is thinking things thru? dumb you know what - that's who.

- this is simply a bad team that doesn't have enough talent, speed and size.

Bigger picture:

- I actually back Shanahan. I don't like everything he has done. for example, I support benching RG, but having him run the scout team? that's a dumb f'ing move.

- I like that Shanahan is enforcing his authority. that's what a coach should do even if he goes down in flames. the way his contract is structured he is accountable for jus about everything. so let him run it however he thinks best. there can only be one! (boss) let him finish out his contract and be judged by the results.

- His admission on RG yesterday was astonishing. A big detractor in my view. the time to say that was immediately when it happened. One can only surmise he knew this all along, but decided to shed some of the responsibility. the "he's the one theme" alluded to previously? that gets under-cut when the players know the one doesn't shoulder blame when merited.

it's very difficult to assess what is going on right now. Snyder is actually doing the right things compared to previous seasons. player leaks seem to support this. I, for one, don't think he pal'd around with RG nearly as much as certain media sources rumor. and who cares? the reality is that RG has played badly and that this team's core problem is a lack of talent. that lack of talent has many sources, hence, the difficulty in assessing all of this. it points directly at management and scouting. the problem is that the team inherited by Shanahan had drafted badly, had spent too much money on unproductive talent, etc., etc., that had to be cleaned up. Shanahan made some bad moves both signings and financially. the drafts have been uneven. at the end of the day, you can't build a team based on 4-7th round picks. RG will be our franchise QB - this is just a wash year for him. we'll find out what sort of man he really is during the of-season. either he fixes his weaknesses or he is what he appears to be at times - someone who says the right things but is ultimately about himself. he has the skills and smarts. but he was never NFL ready (vis what top flight NFL QBs must be able to execute). those three number ones hurt. the cap penalty definitely hurt. WE REALLY CAN'T DRAW ANY CONCLUSIONS BECAUSE THERE ARE SO MANY VARIABLES. the one think I am certain of, no rocket science here, is that we are a long ways from an NFL caliber roster. this all boils down to talent on hand. I have no idea if this state exists because of the extenuating circumstances (RGIII draft trade, cap hit), bad scouting, bad personnel evaluation, bad coaching, bad strategy (e.g., ZBS, 3-4), lacking player motivation, lacking player football smarts….whatever. but it aint there. I also know other teams have either turned their rosters around faster or don't slide as much during major roster turn-over (e.g., Ravens). this all suggests that that we still don't have an established, entrenched, long-term strategy for managing the roster. we're constantly changing, constantly lurching from one philosophy to the next, one immediate set of problems to the next.

we got our QB. let's develop him. let's build a plan that methodically builds the roster - accounting for depth and replenishment. we need stability and strategy. we need management/vision that view this roster in terms of 10 year periods - not 3-4 year coaching stints. until that happens. we will always be at the tail end watching the successful teams. there are no magic turn-arounds - there is good football thinking, eye for talent, and staying the course. and that does have to start with Dan. he has to be the foundation that all the other actions spring from. he has to ensure continuity. he doesn't run things. but he should be the one who - once the identity is defined - makes sure it keeps. aside from talent on hand…this is my biggest complaint. this team has no identity and hasn't since 1992. there is no "Redskin Football" like there was in the 70s and 80s. there has only been churn and confusion.
 
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you have a bias...its obvious. Nothing I say will change how you think.

I'm having the same argument with you in a few threads with the same results. I'm going to stop being insane now and thinking I can get you to change your mind.

Let's be honest Mike - are you open to having your mind changed on this topic? Doesn't sound like it to me :)

Look - it doesn't matter what Snyder's intentions are. It doesn't even really matter if he's the worst, most conniving, despicable man on the planet, or the most maligned, misunderstood one.

We are on the verge of our 8th Head Coach in 15 years! We are a perennial bystander in the NFL playoffs. Our franchise has done almost nothing but fail in its primary goal, and it doesn't seem to matter who our HC is, does it?

That is all on Dan Snyder. I honestly believe even he would not dispute that.

I don't hate Snyder. But he doesn't know how to create a consistent winning franchise and I fear he will never figure it out.
 
tr1. you're wrong. but that's ok.

you have no eye for change. Snyder may not be the most attractive personality. and he may have a lifetime of mistakes in the biography. but he has run things differently since Shanahan arrived. the present predicament has multiple causes, of which , Snyder is much less prominent than in the past. he may never succeed. but someone with fealty to actual events can see things are being run differently.

I return to my previous comment: what Snyder needs to do, after all these years, is enforce the identity. but he doesn't create that identity - it comes from the front office and the players themselves. Snyder's role should be to accept a successful formula and ensure it persists through roster and coaching staff changes. he did not know how to do that early on - may not even have thought about it. he may not have the knowledge now. can't tell. but he is changing his approach.
 
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nice flip, John. I try to take the other route so you use what I said against me. I like that.

Have fun at it, guys. I'm done.

Come on Mike - I'm just expressing my opinion , I'm not trying to give you a hard time. I respect you see it differently.
 
tr1. you're wrong. but that's ok.

you have no eye for change. Snyder may not be the most attractive personality. and he may have a lifetime of mistakes in the biography. but he has run things differently since Shanahan arrived. the present predicament has multiple causes, of which , Snyder is much less prominent than in the past. he may never succeed. but someone with fealty to actual events can see things are being run differently.

The problem with that very general view is that while Snyder may well not be driving whatever dysfunction and failures are going on, but he certainly sees it all occurring and as the CEO has the ability (and in fact, the obligation) to address whatever the hell the issues are in the organization that are getting in the way of global success. You can't 'hand off' responsibility for success/failure of an organization that you OWN. If there are issues with coaches, star players, decision-making, internal strife, Snyder is the one that has to know those things are going on and ensure they are addressed. That's not interfering, it's called leadership.
 
DS could cure a lot if his own and the Redskins ills by just communicating openly. But he hates and distrusts the media more than any public figure out there. Some of that is for good reason. But it's a self-fulfilling prophecy. If you don't speak to issues in a crisis, the media and others are going to fill in the gaps as they see fit, create their own explanations, etc...

The healthiest thing Snyder could have done this week would have been to come out with Shanahan and address the media together. Snyder is truly his own worst enemy.
 
Exactly. None of us know how meddlesome or not he has been. Could be that Shanahan has had a yippy dog nipping at his heels the whole time he's been here. Could be that some of these moves were whispered in his ear indirectly. We don't know. We may never know. For someone to say "those paying attention to events knows the team is being run differently" is silly.

Not to mention, Snyder is still playing favorites, which undermines the coaching staff and causes dissent in the locker room. That's what he was doing with Portis, and he's still doing it now. Doesn't sound like much has changed IMO.
 
The healthiest thing Snyder could have done this week would have been to come out with Shanahan and address the media together. Snyder is truly his own worst enemy.

I had this thought too.

It's almost ironic the situation we find team in.

I'm actually wondering if this is all manufactured bullshit and behind the scenes Snyder and Shanahan are on the same page... and both are just waiting for the offseason to start.
 
Well, my comment was more directed to the "reaction" part of the sentence. Meaning, posters reaction to things are questioned, mocked, debated, etc.. all the time. But THIS time, I somehow broke the honored code of fellow fan/poster treatment.

Whatever.

Kumbaya!

Why? Probably because this time I felt like I got caught in the flak of that grenade you lobbed and I didn't like it. Sue me.

But if you think I don't react when other posters drop little flaming paper bags full of dog**** in a thread, don't worry. I've been handing out points like candy these days.
 
DS could cure a lot if his own and the Redskins ills by just communicating openly. But he hates and distrusts the media more than any public figure out there. Some of that is for good reason. But it's a self-fulfilling prophecy. If you don't speak to issues in a crisis, the media and others are going to fill in the gaps as they see fit, create their own explanations, etc...

The healthiest thing Snyder could have done this week would have been to come out with Shanahan and address the media together. Snyder is truly his own worst enemy.

I was thinking that too.

All he really had to do was come out and say 'Shanahan is our guy. he makes the final decisions and I support that 100%' or something. Since he's not saying that we're all trying to guess what he's thinking, or doing, or whatever. And given his track record all sorts of ideas are popping up. Makes things look pretty toxic.
 
Let's be honest Mike - are you open to having your mind changed on this topic? Doesn't sound like it to me :)

Look - it doesn't matter what Snyder's intentions are. It doesn't even really matter if he's the worst, most conniving, despicable man on the planet, or the most maligned, misunderstood one.

We are on the verge of our 8th Head Coach in 15 years! We are a perennial bystander in the NFL playoffs. Our franchise has done almost nothing but fail in its primary goal, and it doesn't seem to matter who our HC is, does it?

That is all on Dan Snyder. I honestly believe even he would not dispute that.

I don't hate Snyder. But he doesn't know how to create a consistent winning franchise and I fear he will never figure it out.

You weren't talking to me but since I seem to be on the same page as Mike I'll answer....

Nope not the same at all since it seems to me that Mike and I are waiting for some actual evidence backing up this hysteria about meddling and buddying up before we buy into it. It's not at all the same as being dug in beyond the point of reason and unwilling to listen to any facts that counter our stance. BIG difference IMO.

If we're being open and honest here I have to confess I lean towards Ax's sentiments about the fickle clueless nature of some of our fans and this being basically a case study in why many other NFL fans think Redskins fans are as clueless and ungrounded as Cowboy fans. If I didn't know better I'd think Griffin never had the season he had last year where he demonstrated an ability to do all the things he's accused of being mentally unable to this year. Two words for me right now bring HUGE confort because of the amazing number of parallels in their 2nd years...Cam Newton.
 
CounterTrey,

Again, Griffin's benching was on CNN this morning. Not their sports segment. It was a headline story. It's not Redskin fans wondering what the hell is going on. It's pretty much everyone. We're bouncing it around here because, well, it's a Redskins board. I'm not sure what else you guys think we should be talking about right now.
 
CounterTrey,

Again, Griffin's benching was on CNN this morning. Not their sports segment. It was a headline story. It's not Redskin fans wondering what the hell is going on. It's pretty much everyone. We're talking about it here because, well, it's a Redskins board.

Sorry I misspoke...I meant the pocket passer thread basically calling him a huge project with no discernible skills for reading a D or going past a primary receiver. I Just shook my head when I read through that the first few times.

I have no problem with anyone discussing it, but the way people STILL allow the media to sucker them just amazes and disappoints me. I just don't get it, my bullsh*t detector goes off like a tornado siren and many others buy in wholesale. I'll never get it.
 

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