Cousins

CounterTrey said:
I happen to think they are more responsible for their 1st 2 SB's than the O was but without Brady I have no doubt they wouldn't have any rings at all.
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I'm sick of defending the Patriots and Belichik (can't stand them), but look at what you just said - the logical conclusion is then without that D they wouldn't have any rings either...correct?
 
Lanky Livingston said:
Well in short, no. The Steelers did not pass on Cousins for Ta'amu.
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but they did pass on him in the 3 previous rounds...


but i want to address this idea i've seen floating around about cousins eventually netting us a 1st or 2nd round pick...

(this is taken from what I heard on sportstalk 570 the other day. i agree with these ideas, but this is not my work it's theirs).

So this all comes (mainly) from the idea that the patriots lost brady one year, put in cassle, and went 11-5 and barely missed the playoffs. They were then able to trade cassle for 2nd round pick... to the a team that's current GM was the guy who originally picked cassle... this is also after going 11-5 as a backup, which (in general) is unheard of.

And even then he was only worth a 2nd round pick.

We'll be lucky to turn Cousins into a 3rd round pick, or to be able to trade him for a starter at another position that we need.

I'm not saying it can't happen, and I'm not saying it's not on the list of possible upsides of drafting him. I'm just saying lets not hang our hat on the idea that we can groom him then trade him for a 1st or second rounder. It just doesn't happen that way...
 
The 2nd was a throw in as far as I'm concerned. Would have been Nice but RG is well worth it. Still one pick no matter where it is in the next two drafts will barely even be missed with this FO. You and everyone else freaking out about "ALL of the picks" we gave up is overstating it. We got something in return...something huge in fact.
 
tshile said:
Agreed. I've asked a couple questions of the people who have problems with it in this thread but they've all gone unanswered.
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I thought your question to me was rhetorical, given the level of snark. ;)

Apparently 4th round is way too high for us to draft a QB since we have Griffin.
And people wanted more secondary and oline picks despite us picking 3 o linemen, 2 secondary, plus all our free agent acquisitions.

I'm not saying you shouldn't question the cousins pick. But the amount of anger and attacking of the pick is just so over the top it's ridiculous. We're probably going to draft a QB next year or the year after - and it'll have nothing to do with how well griffin is playing or how healthy griffin is. But we'll be right back at it - claiming there's a QB controversy again.
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It has nothing to do with a QB controversy in my mind - there is no QB controversy. Grossman is the very temporary starter until Griffin beats him out in camp/preseason, with Cousins a long shot to possibly be 2nd string. Anyone claiming QB controversy is just stirring up crap.
 
Lanky Livingston said:
I'm sick of defending the Patriots and Belichik (can't stand them), but look at what you just said - the logical conclusion is then without that D they wouldn't have any rings either...correct?
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Nope. I'd bet the 3rd one at the very least they get, their D wasn't exactly stellar that year. Same with the 19-0 year...their D sucked. They leaned on D as Brady evolved but no Brady no rings at all, or how about this...No BRady and Belichick isn't nearly the genius he's made out to be now. He's probably not even employed by the PATS anymore. His D's in Cleveland were good too.
 
Lanky Livingston said:
...and he didn't draft a backup QB in the 4th round - this only proves my point.
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But he did draft a QB in the 3rd round last year and was lauded. At first Mallette was slated in the 2nd but as the draft approached, everyone had Mallette falling into the 4th or 5th round, but the Pats took him in the 3rd. And that pick was a "great pick".

Now, I am not sure it correlates to the situation we're in since Griff is a rookie and Tom Brady is...well...Tom Brady, but it is the same idea. They didn't draft a need with their only 3rd round choice, defense, they drafted a QB and everyone loved the pick.
 
Lanky Livingston said:
I thought your question to me was rhetorical, given the level of snark. ;)
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hahaha fair enough :)

Lanky Livingston said:
It has nothing to do with a QB controversy in my mind - there is no QB controversy. Grossman is the very temporary starter until Griffin beats him out in camp/preseason, with Cousins a long shot to possibly be 2nd string. Anyone claiming QB controversy is just stirring up crap.
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Then at the end of the day we're on the same page.
 
CounterTrey said:
The 2nd was a throw in as far as I'm concerned. Would have been Nice but RG is well worth it. Still one pick no matter where it is in the next two drafts will barely even be missed with this FO. You and everyone else freaking out about "ALL of the picks" we gave up is overstating it. We got something in return...something huge in fact.
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A "throw in?" What does that mean, exactly?

Previous Redskins 2nd-round picks:
Jon Jansen
Fred Smoot
Rocky McIntosh
Fred Davis
Jarvis Jenkins

Not saying any of these guys are world-beaters, but it wouldn't hurt this roster to have an extra Jon Jansen, I don't think. :)
 
Elephant said:
But he did draft a QB in the 3rd round last year and was lauded. At first Mallette was slated in the 2nd but as the draft approached, everyone had Mallette falling into the 4th or 5th round, but the Pats took him in the 3rd. And that pick was a "great pick".

Now, I am not sure it correlates to the situation we're in since Griff is a rookie and Tom Brady is...well...Tom Brady, but it is the same idea. They didn't draft a need with their only 3rd round choice, defense, they drafted a QB and everyone loved the pick.
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But El, its not the same situation, at all. Because Tom Brady is Tom Brady, and Griff is a rookie. And also because the Patriots had 4 picks before they took Mallette, while the Redskins had just 2.

Look, if Cousins develops nicely, and becomes a legit pro-QB or even a legit backup QB, I'll be as happy as anyone else with whatever comes of that (trade, wins some critical games with Griff out, whatever) - I'm just saying that as of right now, I'd much rather have the potential anchor of our 3-4 defense on the roster.
 
I agree it is not an exact parallel, but look at what you're saying. And correct me if I'm wrong.

2012 - We had different, more important needs for our first 4th round pick, CB, ILB, RT. Instead of filling those needs we took a QB when we already have our QB in Griff. Why didn't we wait for a Kellen Moore in the 7th or the like? Head scratcher, stupid move?

Subsequently, we use the next 4th round draft pick to trade down with the Steelers. We end up with Keenan Robinson and Tom Compton, both possible steals and likely future starters.

2011 - The Patriots have more important needs than a backup QB in the 3rd round, especially with all-world Tom Brady behind center. Instead of strengthening that defense (especially since there was no free agency) they drafted a QB that was thought would probably slip into the 5th round. It was a head scratcher, but within an hour it was the best move of the draft according to the experts.

In retrospect, the Patriots had many more needs on defense than to have chosen Mallette, regardless of the previous 4 picks of that draft.


You can't see Om's original point in those scenarios?
 
Elephant said:
I agree it is not an exact parallel, but look at what you're saying. And correct me if I'm wrong.

2012 - We had different, more important needs for our first 4th round pick, CB, ILB, RT. Instead of filling those needs we took a QB when we already have our QB in Griff. Why didn't we wait for a Kellen Moore in the 7th or the like? Head scratcher, stupid move?

Subsequently, we use the next 4th round draft pick to trade down with the Steelers. We end up with Keenan Robinson and Tom Compton, both possible steals and likely future starters.

2011 - The Patriots have more important needs than a backup QB in the 3rd round, especially with all-world Tom Brady behind center. Instead of strengthening that defense (especially since there was no free agency) they drafted a QB that was thought would probably slip into the 5th round. It was a head scratcher, but within an hour it was the best move of the draft according to the experts.

In retrospect, the Patriots had many more needs on defense than to have chosen Mallette, regardless of the previous 4 picks of that draft.


You can't see Om's original point in those scenarios?
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The point I am making is that the Patriots deserve the benefit of the doubt, and the Redskins do not. I would compare the Win/Loss records of the two clubs over the past decade, but nobody needs to see something that hideous this early in the morning. ;)

I think that's the main disconnect - we clearly have different views of the scenarios. I think they couldn't be more different, you seem to think they are very similar. Also, I'm not sure what you mean by "no free agency" - there was a very healthy FA class, highlighted by the "Dream Team" out in Philly.
 
I admit to being as perplexed as anyone when we took Cousins. After chewing on it for a couple days, it's not a bad idea. I figured they'd take two QB's. I just thought the 2nd would come with an extra 5th we might have gotten in a trade down. Or in the 6th or 7th.

But I'm also a big believer in BPA. And if they had Cousins as that, then by all means, go for it.

I know part of my original fear was not wanting to feed any possibility of doubt in Griffin's head about his place here. But really, if anything about this causes him to not perform as he's expected to, then we just wasted picks on the wrong guy. If he can't hack it, the sooner we know, the better.

As for the two future 1st rd picks? BFD

Especially if they wind up being in the twenty or later slots, then we might get charged with robbing the Rams.
 
I'm not gonna beat the bushes with any more "bad pick" talk about Cousins. I listened to the post-draft podcast of Kiper and McShay and, while I mostly agree with Mel about the negative points, I also liked McShay's take that many of you have already mentioned.

Mobile QB's take a beating and seldom play all 16 games. Over the course of two or three seasons, Griffin could potentially miss up to 10 games. That gives Cousins several chances to show his stuff. Look at what guys like A.J. Feeley and Kevin Kolb brought in trade. Even if we only get Cousins services for three years and can trade him even money for a 4th rounder, we've STILL come out ahead. If he does REALLY well in relief, you might get more.

I feel bad for Cousins that he doesn't get to go in and compete for a starting job on another team but his chances with the Skins WILL come. Unfortunately, it's inevitable. Sure, I would rather have had a better need player at his spot but he's a Redskin now so we gotta support him and hope he looks as good as he did in his final bowl game.
 
Ax said:
As for the two future 1st rd picks? BFD

Especially if they wind up being in the twenty or later slots, then we might get charged with robbing the Rams.
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Yep. Even if RG3 never becomes a Pro Bowl-caliber QB, worse deals have been made in the history of the league. The shot HAD to be taken.
 
Lanky Livingston said:
A "throw in?" What does that mean, exactly?

Previous Redskins 2nd-round picks:
Jon Jansen
Fred Smoot
Rocky McIntosh
Fred Davis
Jarvis Jenkins

Not saying any of these guys are world-beaters, but it wouldn't hurt this roster to have an extra Jon Jansen, I don't think. :)
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Heh...VERY selective list. We also got Malcolm Kelly, Devin Thomas, and Reggie Brooks among other busts with our 2nd round picks and it WOULD hurt this roster to have one of them so it can go both ways. To me anything outside the top ten or so is a major crap shoot. Not having two picks in the future will almost be unnoticed by this FO.
 
cousins is on the sports reporters right now


sounds a lot like john beck :paranoid::paranoid::paranoid:
 
Ok, I'm pretty much over this discussion ... but are some of you REALLY arguing that three firsts and a second is no big deal?
 
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