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Williams and Bounty System in Washington

This is going to get ugly and the PR nightmare the NFL loathes.

Right or wrong, it has has been going on for years. Heard Brian Mitchell say there was a bounty on him placed by Reggie White. He said difference is they didn't get me.

The problem here is the Saints and Williams were stupid enough to document everything.

Wonder how long before Bills and Titans players come forward?
 
Thank God this guy wasn't made our HC. Losing RG3 may have been the penalty.
 
I bet Dan Snyder is thanking the football gods he didn't hire him as HC. I don't think it was over a bounty system, rather it was personality differences and control issues.

My guess is the Redskin brainstrust and PR staff are crafting a statement at this moment.
 
All we can do is hope and pray the NFL's investigation doesn't affect us, rather it further implicates Williams.

The good thing is Gibbs has stated he had no knowledge of a bounty system. In New Orleans, Sean Peyton and Loomis knew but didn't act. Outside of Greg Williams, I think they will take the hit.
 
I think Ax is right. And as we're throwing Williams under the bus, just be prepared to throw half the defensive coordinators in the league under it as well, as I expect this is not an isolated practice. As Ax implied, there is a good deal of hypocrisy in the 'horror' being expressed by NFL leadership at this, since the game is essentially built on violence and everyone knows it. The truth is (and I think this is what Elephant has been trying to express) that this 'scandal' is largely about semantics. Every NFL team in the league routinely sets as it's goal knocking key players out of the game. The only unique aspect of the 'bounty' is putting a financial incentive behind it.

I won't defend the practice because I do think it blurs the line between encouraging players to physically dominate their opponents, and actively seeking to injure them. That, and openly doing it, knowing how it would be viewed if it became public knowledge, is just incredibly stupid. Political correctness is our reality, and this is the kind of thing that gets good people fired or banned for life. As for Gregg Williams, the knock on him has always been that he is 'arrogant'. I've said many times here that having spent some time with him, I found him to be a great guy. I think his players felt that way. But this may be proof that he had some of that arrogance, the kind that leads you to believe you don't have to follow known rules and practices.

Most curious thing for me about all this is why the NFL is going ultra-public with it. I don't understand why they couldn't have disciplined individuals or teams a lot more quietly, while making it clear that going forward use of a 'bounty system' will result in immediate lifetime bans. They seem to have gone out of their way to do this all out in the open. Seems unnecessary to me.
 
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My understanding from Twitter (cause if it's tweeted, it must be true) is that the NFL specifically told the Saints to stop doing this ****, and the Saints essentially said "eff you" to the NFL and kept doing it. If that is the case, we will be fine, no forfeiture of draft picks or anything. There may be fines, but I don't see how they can punish one regime for another regime's actions.
 
As a side note: as if the concussions weren't bad enough, now I will NEVER talk my wife into letting our son play.
 
Fact: It did happen in Washington. True, Coach Gibbs had no knowledge. The league will need to do something though and we can expect a token fine of $50,000 or $100,000 and nothing more imho.
 
Boone, you are right about this being a case of semantics. The term 'bounty' is probably a poor choice of words. Problem is the media and non-fans will be judge, jury, and executioner.

I am sure there are 31 defensive coordinators that will try to polish their respective halos. This really comes as no surprise to any true fan or players.

My concern is how it impacts the Redskins. Heard somewhere that someone has said it was a hit on Peyton Manning against the Redskins that started all his neck problems. Think this was when Williams was here.

I can live with a fine. Just hate to see the Redskins lose draft picks.
 
I would be shocked if they penalized teams with loss of draft picks for the reason previously mentioned - you're penalizing staffs that had nothing to do with those decisions and practices. Not saying it's impossible, but the logical approach would be to address the individuals who allowed it to happen.
 
My concern is how it impacts the Redskins. Heard somewhere that someone has said it was a hit on Peyton Manning against the Redskins that started all his neck problems. Think this was when Williams was here.

I can live with a fine. Just hate to see the Redskins lose draft picks.

Williams was gone. It was Shanahan's first year and McNabb was at the helm. If it weren't for a great finger tip, pass defense by the Colts' CB, McNabb had thrown a near perfect pass to our WR (Can't remember who) who was in stride and would likely have scored the winning TD.

That's not to say that Blache didn't carry on the tradition. I mean why wouldn't he? He tried his hardest to be Gregg Williams.
 
My apologies riggins44, I did not realize they actually think the injury went back that far.
 
I wonder if this is why LaRon always used to look for the knockout, rather than, y'know, actually make the play. It seems to me there's been at least some correlation between Williams leaving, and LaRon improving.

I'm probably reading too much into it though.
 
My apologies riggins44, I did not realize they actually think the injury went back that far.

Hey I understand. My concern is this will turn out to be a witch hunt. I can see any team Greg Williams was a coach questioned.
 
If we're robbed of a franchise QB, all I can ask is that you guys not testify against me. :tantrum:

I will be your accomplice.

This is something I am truely worried about. I know I should not be, but it just seems like the luck of a DC sports fan. If we cannot trade up because of something that happened six years ago, I just may go off the deep end.

I don't think it is going to come to that, but if it does!!!!!
 
Here's an analysis of the potential legal ramifications done by SI's legal analyst Michael McCann

The New Orleans Saints and their players, coaches and front office personnel are likely to receive harsh sanctions from NFL commissioner Roger Goodell for the dangerous bounty system they employed over the last few seasons. Lengthy suspensions, hefty fines and forfeiture of draft picks are all on the table. Their real worries, however, may come in court rooms, as the bounty system arguably broke the law. SI.com legal analyst Michael McCann breaks down the potential legal fallout.

Criminal Charges

The bounty system implicates at least two types of criminal charges: battery and conspiracy. Battery, which under Louisiana law is punishable by up to six months in jail, refers to the intentional use of force upon another person without that person's consent. Here, a Saints player who intentionally tried to injure another team's player could have battered that player. In response, a Saints player might argue that offensive players assume the risk of serious injury on every play, especially since defensive players are rewarded for stopping the advancement of the ball. That rationale would be deeply flawed, however, because while offensive players assume the risk of injury on a tackle, they do not assume the tackle is intended to injure them. The Saints' "pay for injury" model is clearly outside the boundaries of the game and an assumption of risk defense holds little weight.

KING: SAINTS FACING SEVERE PUNISHMENT

It is even possible that a Saints player could be charged with second degree battery. This is a more serious type of battery, which carries a potential five-year prison sentence and which refers to intentionally inflicting serious bodily injury. Under Louisiana law, "serious bodily injury" refers to causing another person extreme physical pain, unconsciousness, or risk of death. A bounty to injure someone so seriously that he's carted off the field arguably rises to second degree battery.
There is a three years statute of limitation for battery charges, which means that bounties -- which took place over the last three seasons -- occurred recently-enough for criminal prosecution.

BANKS: LOOMIS, PAYTON DESERVE MOST BLAME

It's not just Saints players who are susceptible to criminal charges. Former defensive coordinator Gregg Williams, who admits to aiding and abetting the bounty system, could be charged as a conspirator. Under Louisiana law, criminal conspiracy is when two or more persons -- such as a defensive coordinator and his players -- agree to commit a crime (battery).
Head coach Sean Payton and general manager Mickey Loomis may have also committed crimes by failing to do anything about the bounty system. Louisiana law recognizes criminal negligence which refers to conduct that, while not intentional, shows a callous disregard for the safety of others. If Payton and Loomis were indeed aware of the bounty system and let it slide, they seem susceptible to criminal charges.

GALLERY: SPORTS SCANDALS THROUGH THE YEARS

While the above provides a road map to criminal prosecutions of Saints players, coaches and front office personnel, prosecutors seldom seek charges for incidents that occur on the field. This is true even for on-field incidents that would clearly be crimes if they occurred on a public street. Prosecutors and judges generally defer to leagues to enforce their own rules and assign their own penalties. While this deference makes sense on some levels, one may wonder whether an NFL penalty provides adequate deterrence for preventing future bounty systems: even the most serious NFL fine -- banishment from the game -- could never come close to the threat of a judge sentencing someone to jail or prison. Besides, in the rare instances when criminal charges are brought by authorities, they are often brought outside of the U.S. (such as when Vancouver authorities charged Boston Bruins defenseman Marty McSorley for his vicious slash of Vancouver Canucks forward Donald Brashear).

Personal Injury Claims

Players who were injured by the Saints' bounty system could file personal injury lawsuits against the Saints, Greg Williams, and the players who earned bounties. They are unlikely to do so, since NFL players seldom file personal injury claims for on-field injuries. Then again, a player injured because of bounty may feel differently than if he had been injured in the normal course of a game. With a bounty system, a player is targeted for injury. No player assumes such a risk. Plus, put yourself in the position of a player injured by a bounty: you suffered the injury not because of fair play but because a "hit man" tried to injure you. You and your family may seek legal redress for this unquestionable wrong.

Tax Evasion

Players who received bounty payments should have reported them as taxable income; even if the payments arose because of criminal activity, such "ill gotten gains" are taxable. Failure to pay one's full share of taxes constitutes tax evasion. The IRS and Louisiana Department of Revenue are likely following the bounty system scandal with a watchful eye.

Contract Termination For Cause


If the bounty scandal becomes a major story, Saints owner Tom Benson may deem it necessary to fire players, coaches and front personnel who participated in it. Those firings could be done "for cause", which would relieve the Saints of any remaining financial obligations on the contract. A for cause firing may be appropriate because the bounty system is arguably criminal and tortious and is clearly outside the scope of any employment contract. It has also caused the Saints franchise serious and potentially irreparable harm.

False Advertising

Fans who paid a good deal of money to attend Saints games, be they home or away, may reason that they were the victims of false advertising: they paid to watch competitive NFL football, not hired hit men who tried to injure other human beings. Louisiana has several laws for remedying false advertising and deceptive trade practices.

Michael McCann is a sports law professor and Sports Law Institute director at Vermont Law School and the distinguished visiting Hall of Fame Professor of Law at Mississippi College School of Law. He also serves as NBA TV's On-Air Legal Analyst.

Article link:http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/writers/michael_mccann/03/03/saints.bounty.system/?hpt=hp_t3
 
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