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Williams and Bounty System in Washington

One of many experimental iterations ...

Nobody

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It sucks, and if it goes to the extent reports are saying it does, Williams needs a league ban for life. It goes beyond the normal realm of football. I said it in the other thread, there's a difference between telling a player to really lay a hit on a guy, and offering financial compensation for players that end the season or career of an opponent, or send him off the field on a stretcher.
 

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It sucks, and if it goes to the extent reports are saying it does, Williams needs a league ban for life. It goes beyond the normal realm of football. I said it in the other thread, there's a difference between telling a player to really lay a hit on a guy, and offering financial compensation for players that end the season or career of an opponent, or send him off the field on a stretcher.
Problem is, you don't know that he ever offered a bounty for those things - you're just inferring that's what Williams did. I generally agree with you (as Gregg Williams himself is saying) that his behavior is unacceptable. But there's no evidence (I've seen so far anyway) that he encouraged players to do permanent harm (season or career-ending in nature) to other NFL players. You're over-stating on that front.

Phil Daniels has said the exact same thing. Knocking someone out of a game and 'injuring him' are not necessarily synonymous. I think we have to take 'intent' into account here. Doesn't make it right, but I doubt Williams every consciously encouraged any player to seriously harm another player.
 

Burgundy Burner

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No better than Buddy Ryan and his IQ challenged sons. I flat out hate it and this makes the Redskins of Gibbs II look bad. Really hope this will be the end of Williams in the NFL. Sean Payton and anyone else who took part in these things deserve hefty fines, punishment, loss of draft choices, and losing the opportunity to franchise a player this season.

Sheeeeesh. Just sheeesh.
 

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Problem is, you don't know that he ever offered a bounty for those things - you're just inferring that's what Williams did. I generally agree with you (as Gregg Williams himself is saying) that his behavior is unacceptable. But there's no evidence (I've seen so far anyway) that he encouraged players to do permanent harm (season or career-ending in nature) to other NFL players. You're over-stating on that front.

Phil Daniels has said the exact same thing. Knocking someone out of a game and 'injuring him' are not necessarily synonymous. I think we have to take 'intent' into account here. Doesn't make it right, but I doubt Williams every consciously encouraged any player to seriously harm another player.
I was simply going on what was said in the report, along with what was said by Williams himself. The article not only implies that the bounty was to injure people, it flat out says that's what it was for......

New Orleans Saints players and at least one assistant coach maintained a bounty program the last three seasons for inflicting game-ending injuries on opposing players, including Brett Favre and Kurt Warner — a pool that reached as much as $50,000 and paid specific amounts for ''cart-offs'' and ''knockouts,'' the NFL said Friday.
Then there was this from Williams himself.....
Williams' statement read. "It was a terrible mistake, and we knew it was wrong while we were doing it.
And from Goodell....
''The payments here are particularly troubling because they involved not just payments for 'performance,' but also for injuring opposing players,'' Commissioner Roger Goodell said in a statement.
To back up what I was saying in the other thread, he wasn't simply encouraging tough football, or encouraging guys to go all out on a play. He was paying layers bounties for causing injury to opponents, which crosses so many boundaries, and people like him should be removed from all sports. Just like when John Thompson was coaching at Georgetown for basketball, and got caught sending players into a game just to inflict serious injury on an opponent having a career night.

And anyone who saw that Saints-Vikings game knew there was something more going on. At times, they looked like they were trying to kill Favre.
 

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Look - I'm generally agreeing with you. But the first quote is a writer, who is himself inferring what may not be there (knocking someone out of a game = injuring the player). The 2nd quote is Williams who only expresses this was a big mistake, but doesn't acknowledge his intent was ever to encourage permanent injury. The 3rd quote is most concerning, as Goodell has likely seen whatever the volume of 'documents' that are being referenced. But even he may not know the *intent* of a 'bounty', which I have to believe was mostly in line with what all NFL fans want from their team, for their guys to knock the living daylights out of the other guys.

Redskins fans worship Sean Taylor. Well - guess what? Not only was Taylor exactly the kind of head-hunting player fans adore, but he also was (apparently) one of the biggest beneficiaries of William's so-called 'bounty system'.

I'm not an apologist. I've already said this was a stupid, stupid mistake on Williams part (and any other coach who engaged in a 'bounty'). But the intent may well have been just to inspire a defense to give it's all and play aggressively, not to permanently harm fellow players. It's like saying you're going to 'kill' someone. You don't mean it literally, but you say it anyway. There may have been an element of that here. However misguided, I find it hard to believe most players would really try to seriously 'injure' another player.

I think it's a reach to draw that conclusion and I don't care who is being quoted. The truth is, neither you nor I nor anyone else knows exactly what happened here. So smart people will wait and see just how bad this was before condemning people.
 
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So disappointing...just sad. I'd say I can't see Gibbs ever allowing this but it happened on his watch.
 

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So disappointing...just sad. I'd say I can't see Gibbs ever allowing this but it happened on his watch.
I've had this same thought...wonder how much Joe Gibbs even knew about what was going on during his 2nd tenure, at least on the defensive side of the ball?

I'll confess to a selfish thought - that I'm incredibly glad that Williams hasn't been a part of the Redskins staff for a long time. I'd hate to have the inevitable distraction and media circus that will no doubt rise up around this story in DC. Say what you will about a Mike Shanahan, but this kind of crap would never happen on a Mike Shanahan coached team. He's too smart for that.
 

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Yep I agree about your Shanahan point. I also had the same thoughts on Gibbs which might be just as disturbing as him knowing and allowing it...not knowing and reflecting how little control he had over things compared to before. I don't see that happening round one...at least not without his knowledge.
 

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I think Gibbs trusted Williams to run the defense and my guess is that he is very disappointed with Gregg this evening.
 

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Just sit back and watch. The Saints are about to be shredded to the max. Nicks has not been given an offer and he will go elsewhere. Florio suggested that with having no first round picks, they may be forced to not use the franchise tag this year.

If these things come to fruition, FA suddenly became a much different situation than what we were thinking earlier today.
 

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I can't get past how they are mucking it all up with Drew Brees, much less anything beyond that!
 

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Yeah, Loomis is just screwing that thing up completely.
 

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So can we start a Drew Brees thread? :laugh:

Steal him and draft Tannehill? :betterwink:

Oh and of course we sign Nicks and what's his name...Meachem or the other one?
 

Ax

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Does anybody think there was never a "bounty" on knocking out Roger Staubach all those years? I bet half the HOF members were involved, in one way or another, with "bounty's" of some sort.

What about the special teams player of the week getting the prime parking spot at the park? That's incentive pay too, isn't it.

I know the NFL is going to make a big deal out of this, but it's just not. It's old school. Nothing more. They can ban the outright practice of it, but the players who dominate by legally blowing people up on the field will still get the biggest contracts. Same same, by another name.

Somebody just turned on a light and spotted the cockroach. They're in more kitchens than you think.

:kick_can:Come on September.
 

servumtuum

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So can we start a Drew Brees thread? :laugh:

Steal him and draft Tannehill? :betterwink:

Oh and of course we sign Nicks and what's his name...Meachem or the other one?
A Brees thread? Sure, why not? More fuel for the fire, I always say. :cool5:

Meachem? Nicks? Yup, I could go for that as well.

As far as the "bounty system" thing, frankly, I'm not all that surprised that something like that occurs in NFL football-maybe it's just my normal cynicism coming out-but if it turns out that Williams was indeed involved in something like that well he just has to face the music, whatever that may be.

Ya pays yer money and takes yer chances.
 

Goaldeje

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This is horrific. The Saints are going to get crushed. I have to wonder if perhaps part of the problem with getting Brees resigned is having this in the background of everything. I doubt Gregg has a job within abt 48 hours.

And Ax, I hear what you're saying, but the problem is that Goodell has painted himself into a corner. He has been preaching player safety (whether lip service or not is irrelevant) especially regarding concussions, and now this? He has no choice but to heavily discipline the Saints. It's gonna be ugly.
 

Ax

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And Ax, I hear what you're saying, but the problem is that Goodell has painted himself into a corner. He has been preaching player safety (whether lip service or not is irrelevant) especially regarding concussions, and now this? He has no choice but to heavily discipline the Saints. It's gonna be ugly.
Oh, I agree 100%. The punishment is gonna be brutal. I just think most of the indignation floating around the innerwebz is laughably ridiculous.

This may put it to an end, but anybody who thinks it hasn't been going on since the beginning of professional football is delusional.
 

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