Wentz-O-Meter: Week 3, 2022

[Boone]

He’s probably taking into account that the QB plays in a system where someone else is calling the plays, he requires blocking, protection, and folks able to catch balls that hit them in the hands. Wentz had a bad game, but there were a lot of failures that contributed to that. He did not throw any INTs and the two fumbles were just good defensive plays. He had two hands on the ball on one of them and was hit from behind and stripped on the other. Yeah, he could get rid of it quicker but he shouldn’t be under that kind of pressure either. And you’d have given him a negative score before the game was even played - let’s not kid ourselves.

I don’t believe you’re ‘rooting for him’ btw…

 

[Theismann To HOF]

He’s probably taking into account that the QB plays in a system where someone else is calling the plays, he requires blocking, protection, and folks able to catch balls that hit them in the hands. Wentz had a bad game, but there were a lot of failures that contributed to that. He did not throw any INTs and the two fumbles were just good defensive plays. He had two hands on the ball on one of them and was hit from behind and stripped on the other. Yeah, he could get rid of it quicker but he shouldn’t be under that kind of pressure either. And you’d have given him a negative score before the game was even played - let’s not kid ourselves.

I don’t believe you’re ‘rooting for him’ btw…

Disagree. Those fumbles were a result of him taking too long to make a decision, which is the same reason he had so many sacks. Which is the same reason he has led the league in QB fumbles over the past 7 years.

It's pretty odd how many of you seem to struggle with understanding these long term disturbing patterns when it comes to Wentz. It's not the offensive coordinator.

I can't root for Wentz anymore. He's actually starting to piss me off with his ineptness.

 

[Boone]

It’s fine to have your own opinion . But knock off implying the rest of us are stupid.

 

[Neophyte]

None of us is saying Wentz doesn't have culpability here. (Wentz himself agrees with that, btw)

But to watch Sunday's game and NOT see a total systemic failure, from the OC on down to the water boy, is to be completely blinded by bias or dedicated to the advancement of an agenda.

Gibson is really the only guy on the offensive side of the ball I don't see as part of Sunday's problem. Every one of our previously sure-handed guys dropped balls that Wentz put
on the money. Every lineman struggled. And every coach failed the players completely. Hell, the game plan was fatally flawed before the team even took to the field.

 

[Primus Porcus]

-16 yards passing and 2 fumbles in the first half earns a 5 from you?

What does a QB have to do to earn a 1?? -100 yards passing, 3 INTs, and 4 fumbles???

As i've said multiple times.. i dont think it was all on him. He bears responsibility, but it's not all him.

Plus the game is 4 quarters long. If i take a test thats 4 pages long, even if I don't get anything right on the first 2 pages, doesn't mean the entire test is then a 0. We're judging on the whole game, not just the first half. 5 is not a good grade. If you go by the same process regarding testing like in school, a 5 doesn't pass.

I personally dont blame him for the second fumble (yes the first one was completely on him) because he tried to climb the pocket and the Reddick just abused Cosmi. It was a really good play by the Reddick and sometimes players on the other side just make a better play.

I also know that MULTIPLE guys had some pretty bad drops on the 'better passes.'

I don't live and die with the stats... the eyeball test matters, and while his eyeball test wasn't exactly great... there were other things that I think contributed to that terrible game, other than JUST Wentz.

 

[Boone]

I think the other point I’d make is that players can improve - at any point in their career. Look at Ryan Tannehill. The idea that a younger less experienced QB can improve but a veteran can’t makes no sense. We probably have a better sense of existing tendencies with a veteran, but being less aware of a younger players tendencies doesn’t make them more amenable to correction.

 

[Primus Porcus]

Disagree. Those fumbles were a result of him taking too long to make a decision, which is the same reason he had so many sacks. Which is the same reason he has led the league in QB fumbles over the past 7 years.

It's pretty odd how many of you seem to struggle with understanding these long term disturbing patterns when it comes to Wentz. It's not the offensive coordinator.

I can't root for Wentz anymore. He's actually starting to piss me off with his ineptness.

No, we're rooting for him as fans, because the easiest path to success is for him to be good. Him being good means we don't have to re-set at QB. Him being good means we don't have to re-set at OC / HC. Him being good means we don't waste the best WR corps we've had in a decade. Him being good means we don't have to be picking top 5 in the draft. Him being good means we don't waste more years of Jon Allen. Him being good means we get to watch our team win....

We root for him to be good, because we want our team to be successful. We all also acknowledge that he's the starter for this season, and there's not a thing we're going to do about it. The good news is, that if he completely fails, we're not tied to him long term... we can get out easy. We can acknowledge that Wentz is not an elite QB, while also acknowledging that his success is not only dependent on HIM. His OC has been lackluster at best for 2/3 of the season if you break it down by quarter. The O-Line has been abysmal at times, again being one of the most injured units i've ever seen. The success of a single play is so dependent on so many people executing their responsibility correctly, that you can't look at Wentz (or 99% of the QBs out there) and say a failed play is SIMPLY on them EVERY time. The best QBs ever have bad games... they've been let down by their teams. Judging him as objectively as I possibly can, I can't see the entirety of fault being on him. We may get to that point, but i don't know when.

 

[Lovin Cousins]

No, we're rooting for him as fans, because the easiest path to success is for him to be good. Him being good means we don't have to re-set at QB. Him being good means we don't have to re-set at OC / HC. Him being good means we don't waste the best WR corps we've had in a decade. Him being good means we don't have to be picking top 5 in the draft. Him being good means we don't waste more years of Jon Allen. Him being good means we get to watch our team win....

We root for him to be good, because we want our team to be successful. We all also acknowledge that he's the starter for this season, and there's not a thing we're going to do about it. The good news is, that if he completely fails, we're not tied to him long term... we can get out easy. We can acknowledge that Wentz is not an elite QB, while also acknowledging that his success is not only dependent on HIM. His OC has been lackluster at best for 2/3 of the season if you break it down by quarter. The O-Line has been abysmal at times, again being one of the most injured units i've ever seen. The success of a single play is so dependent on so many people executing their responsibility correctly, that you can't look at Wentz (or 99% of the QBs out there) and say a failed play is SIMPLY on them EVERY time. The best QBs ever have bad games... they've been let down by their teams. Judging him as objectively as I possibly can, I can't see the entirety of fault being on him. We may get to that point, but i don't know when.

The people who don't believe in Wentz as a starter, are not rooting for him to fail.
They are rooting for the team. And of course they wish he would do well. But it's just that there is overwhelming data to support that he won't, and therefore it feels like a waste of games, draft picks, salary, etc, to commit to him. You're right, that barring injury, most likely he's the starter for the remainder of the season. And that's what feeds even more into the frustration of those who have a hard time seeing him succeed.

Also think about the effect this has on the players. The disappointment on the players' end affects their morale and motivation. Especially if they also, don't have confidence in him. That also can be a waste of talent.
This also begs the question, did he fall short under Pederson, Sirianni, and Reich, because of an Offensive Coordinator who was holding him back there, too ?

 

[Boone]

No… some are rooting for Wentz to fail.

 

[Primus Porcus]

The people who don't believe in Wentz as a starter, are not rooting for him to fail.
They are rooting for the team. And of course they wish he would do well. But it's just that there is overwhelming data to support that he won't, and therefore it feels like a waste of games, draft picks, salary, etc, to commit to him. You're right, that barring injury, most likely he's the starter for the remainder of the season. And that's what feeds even more into the frustration of those who have a hard time seeing him succeed.

Also think about the effect this has on the players. The disappointment on the players' end affects their morale and motivation. Especially if they also, don't have confidence in him. That also can be a waste of talent.
This also begs the question, did he fall short under Pederson, Sirianni, and Reich, because of an Offensive Coordinator who was holding him back there, too ?

And to your point.. with Heinicke under center, McLaurin had Multiple plays he was behind the DB and had to slow down for the ball, once getting a concussion trying to adjust. How frustrating is that? It's not exclusive to 1 guy, and these guys are professionals.

 

[SkinsNumberOne]

This also begs the question, did he fall short under Pederson, Sirianni, and Reich, because of an Offensive Coordinator who was holding him back there, too ?

Scott Turner has been a bad OC this year. He does not deserve a pass on that. There are completely absurd decisions being made. Finally, people are calling him out on it because the ridiculousness has reached a level where it can't be ignored:

Washington Commanders: Chris Cooley frustrated with Week 3 loss (usatoday.com)
Small excerpt from article:

Sheehan reacted, “Then, why didn’t they (Commanders) run against this?” To which Cooley responded, “Because they’re idiots. I don’t know. They actually ran the ball ok, when they ran the ball. (But) they could never commit to it.”

Wentz has skills and is not (in my opinion) at the level he should be at this stage in the career. What held him back? I am not sure, but his early potential was higher.

 

[SkinsNumberOne]

And to your point.. with Heinicke under center, McLaurin had Multiple plays he was behind the DB and had to slow down for the ball, once getting a concussion trying to adjust. How frustrating is that? It's not exclusive to 1 guy, and these guys are professionals.

Anyone saying Heinicke is amazing and just needs more time is definitely being a bit too optimistic. Could he have gotten better? Maybe. He had a decent amount of opportunity though, and the results were not amazing by any stretch, and the vector was sometimes shaky.

However: during that four-game win streak against really GOOD teams, the offensive philosophy was noticeably different. It is just that we don't have an OC who will adapt his thinking. In the end, Scott Turner needs personnel to match what he wants to do. If the FO can't get him the right personnel, and he keeps his job, we are doomed for the time being (unless something in this dynamic changes). My thinking in the offseason was that they should go with Heinicke on the cheap and build up the team around him. If he can't show improvement, the TEAM is better and NOW you have a chance to attract a better QB. Brady went to the Bucs because he saw what they were building and knew he could have a positive career there. Wentz has hamstrung us even if he performs average, because the team around him is not as strong as it could have been. The comparison for the team's performance and betterment was never simply "Heinicke vs. Wentz" but also the players they couldn't afford because of Wentz. When you factor that part in, they were just desperate to spark Turner's offense and ready to "go for it' and prove that his ideas are great.

I do have a feeling (reading Ron's comments from the week) that he (Ron) may be stepping in a bit to tell Scott he needs to run more. Even if they show up well against Dallas, I just don't think it will last. It didn't before. At least we would enjoy watching the team a bit!

EDITED LATER-- saw this article - Jack Del Rio wants more consistency; Scott Turner wants Terry McLaurin to know he’s not being overlooked (msn.com) - this link has some recap of Turner's comments. He talks about how they used short passes to slow the Eagles Pass Rush and will likely do so again with Cowboys. Also mentions how Terry needs to get the ball more. These are just words though. We'll have to see what they actually do. I am sure Dallas is excited and thinking W, just as Philly did too.

 

[Theismann To HOF]

No… some are rooting for Wentz to fail.

Wentz cannot be successful. He has proven this over and over, on multiple teams. I don't care if he miraculously has a good game against Dallas. He will follow that up with two stinkers the next two games.

I told you after the Jaguars victory that Wentz was regressing badly. And I was right. Wentz should have been benched after those two horrible INTs in the 4th quarter against the Jaguars, if you want to know the truth.

The sooner Rivera finally wises up and gets him off the field, the sooner this team can move forward and potentially save this season from total disaster.

 

[Theismann To HOF]

The people who don't believe in Wentz as a starter, are not rooting for him to fail.
They are rooting for the team. And of course they wish he would do well. But it's just that there is overwhelming data to support that he won't, and therefore it feels like a waste of games, draft picks, salary, etc, to commit to him. You're right, that barring injury, most likely he's the starter for the remainder of the season. And that's what feeds even more into the frustration of those who have a hard time seeing him succeed.

Also think about the effect this has on the players. The disappointment on the players' end affects their morale and motivation. Especially if they also, don't have confidence in him. That also can be a waste of talent.
This also begs the question, did he fall short under Pederson, Sirianni, and Reich, because of an Offensive Coordinator who was holding him back there, too ?

If Wentz keeps playing like this and Rivera sticks with him, the locker room is going to become incredibly toxic. Rivera is stupid, but even he has to realize that.

If Wentz has another horrendous performance against Dallas, he has to sit. There is no other choice. Forget about winning, the team cannot even compete right now with him as the QB. This is not an NFL team with Wentz as the QB.

 

[Primus Porcus]

If Wentz keeps playing like this and Rivera sticks with him, the locker room is going to become incredibly toxic. Rivera is stupid, but even he has to realize that.

If Wentz has another horrendous performance against Dallas, he has to sit. There is no other choice. Forget about winning, the team cannot even compete right now with him as the QB. This is not an NFL team with Wentz as the QB.

These players are professionals, so the idea that the locker room is going to be toxic is hyperbolic and purely opinion. Jon Allen, Terry McLaurin, Charles Leno, Chase Roullier... leaders on this team that have opted to sign new deals despite the toxicity in the franchise. In fact, McLaurin did not sign until well after Wentz was traded for, so I have a hard time believing he's going to go nuclear and decide to speak out. Locker rooms don't get toxic because of other players in the NFL, they get toxic because of coaches and coordinators. When was the last time you heard reports about a locker room was 'lost' because of a player on the team... even QB? Do you realize how many flat out BAD QBs have played entire seasons without anyone ever speaking out, or refusing to play, against the team they played for? It doesn't happen.

You could argue we saw some of it with Griffin in 2013 because of the body language.. primarily reported that other offensive players were not 'quick' to help RG3 up off the mat when he got planted... but it's few and far between. Since then, we've seen 14 starting QBs, including Mark Sanchez..

 

[Theismann To HOF]

These players are professionals, so the idea that the locker room is going to be toxic is hyperbolic and purely opinion. Jon Allen, Terry McLaurin, Charles Leno, Chase Roullier... leaders on this team that have opted to sign new deals despite the toxicity in the franchise. In fact, McLaurin did not sign until well after Wentz was traded for, so I have a hard time believing he's going to go nuclear and decide to speak out. Locker rooms don't get toxic because of other players in the NFL, they get toxic because of coaches and coordinators. When was the last time you heard reports about a locker room was 'lost' because of a player on the team... even QB? Do you realize how many flat out BAD QBs have played entire seasons without anyone ever speaking out, or refusing to play, against the team they played for? It doesn't happen.

You could argue we saw some of it with Griffin in 2013 because of the body language.. primarily reported that other offensive players were not 'quick' to help RG3 up off the mat when he got planted... but it's few and far between. Since then, we've seen 14 starting QBs, including Mark Sanchez..

I would argue that, right now, Wentz is the most incompetent starting QB this team has had since RG III in 2013.

We are getting completely destroyed in the first half of games right now, just like what happened with RG III in 2013.

The players on the team will not stand for obvious, continued incompetent play from Wentz. If it's more of the same against Dallas, then Rivera is going to have to do something about Wentz.

 

[Primus Porcus]

I would argue that, right now, Wentz is the most incompetent starting QB this team has had since RG III in 2013.

We are getting completely destroyed in the first half of games right now, just like what happened with RG III in 2013.

The players on the team will not stand for obvious, continued incompetent play from Wentz. If it's more of the same against Dallas, then Rivera is going to have to do something about Wentz.

We've had MARK SANCHEZ as a starting QB here.

Again, you're taking your opinion and trying to make it fact. I'm pretty confident that you have NO idea what the players on the team are feeling, you're just trying to twist your own opinion into something bigger than it actually is. If the players start speaking out, or taking shots at Wentz... so be it, but at this point we have no reason to believe any of that.

Chase Young had 1.5 sacks in 10 games after being the no. 2 overall pick, and coming off a DROY seasons. Did the defense, and locker room, turn on him?

Antonio Gibson fumbles at the absolute most inopportune time over and over and over again. Did they turn on him?

John Bates got manhandled by Aiden Hutchinson on the sack / fumble in the endzone. Have the players revolted against him?

 

[Primus Porcus]

I would argue that, right now, Wentz is the most incompetent starting QB this team has had since RG III in 2013.

We are getting completely destroyed in the first half of games right now, just like what happened with RG III in 2013.

The players on the team will not stand for obvious, continued incompetent play from Wentz. If it's more of the same against Dallas, then Rivera is going to have to do something about Wentz.

before you get on your pedestal, I'll get ahead of it.

Today was bad for Wentz... very bad.

I still think we're forcing him to do things that MOST NFL QBs would struggle doing. We're not adjusting correctly.. I don't think we're truly giving him the ability to change things a the line of scrimmage. I think we're playing reactive offensive instead of aggressive. The run game was rolling in the 1st half, and it completely fizzled in the 2nd.

Wentz bears a large part of the burden, and he appears to be regressing. I still think he has the ability to win football games, because I've seen countless guys come here and lose... at some point it's not all about the guy throwing the football.

 

[MikefromOH]

I'd give him a -15 if I could

 

[Primus Porcus]

I still don't think we've set him up to succeed as an offense. He absolutely had a failing grade today, but I still think the offensive scheme is not what it needs to be for ANY Qb to be effective right now.