tshile
Guest
good catch on the sacks. we still ran the ball a hell of a lot conidering we were down by 2 touch downs. especially in the 2nd half, when you claim we 'abandoned' the run.
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The unpleasant truth
- Thread starter Rymanofthenorth
- Start date
tshile
Guest
I'm trying to figure out this stupid nfl.com stat lab, but in the meantime:
http://www.nfl.com/teams/washingtonredskins/statistics?team=WAS
2nd in the league in rushing yards.
through 3 weeks we've had 542 rushing yards, our opponents have had 276.
39% of our rushing yards come from Griffin.
edit:
ugh, deangelo hall leads the team in tackles. ew.
http://www.nfl.com/teams/washingtonredskins/statistics?team=WAS
2nd in the league in rushing yards.
through 3 weeks we've had 542 rushing yards, our opponents have had 276.
39% of our rushing yards come from Griffin.
edit:
ugh, deangelo hall leads the team in tackles. ew.
Lanky,
The reason Andy Reid got (and gets) grief was because he'd have that ratio when he was WINNING a game. He'd run out the clock by throwing a short pass. His teams couldn't run even if they wanted to. They didn't know how. Reid has had some great RBs in Westbrook and McCoy but he's always afraid to let them run. Let's just say Morris 'only' averages 17 rushes a game for the rest of season. He would end up with 272 carries (good enough for ninth in the league last year but that's beside the point). Brian Westbrook, that two-time pro-bowl bread-and-butter Philly runningback, only rushed for more than that once in his entire career: 278 rushes in 2007. LeShaun McCoy has only surpassed that once in four years: 273 rushes last year. (Both of those seasons were pro-bowl seasons for those backs, by the way. All-pro seasons too.)
The Redskins don't have that problem. Morris ran it 28 times in the opener, for crying out loud. (McCoy has run it that many times in a game twice in 35 starts. Westbrook once during his entire career.) After only three games we've already shown that we can feed our RB over-and-over if we need to OR we can mix it up with a little Banks and some designed runs from Griffin, and at the end of the day we end up with over 30 points. (As of today the Redskins are 26th in the league in pass attempts. Even adding scrambles and sacks we're nowhere close to Eagles, who are currently 4th in pass attempts with a struggling QB and a proven all-pro RB on the roster.) Such flexibility is very important when you have a hole on your team as glaring as our OL and you need to keep defenses guessing ... AND your defense can't stop anyone.
We are nothing like the Eagles, who only knew (and frankly, still only know) one way to play. This offense is far more versatile. That's a GOOD thing. It's one reason why the Eagles haven't scored more than 24 points yet this season and haven't scored fewer than 28.
Last edited:
Working on a blog entry. Some interim stats to chew on....
The Redskins offense:
1st in points scored (33)
6th in total yards (404.3)
2nd in rushing yards (180.7)
21st in passing yards (223.7)
The Redskins defense:
30th in points allowed (33.7)
30th in total yards (429.3)
31st in passing yards (337.3)
9th in rushing yards (92)
Yes, I know the D has scored points and the special teams have allowed points--the NFL doesn't factor that into their charting however.
Adjusted stats:
Offense - 28.33 points per game
Know how many games NFL teams won scoring 31 or less Sunday? 13.
Know how many games NFL teams won scoring 28 or less last week? 13.
The offense isn't the problem.
The Redskins offense:
1st in points scored (33)
6th in total yards (404.3)
2nd in rushing yards (180.7)
21st in passing yards (223.7)
The Redskins defense:
30th in points allowed (33.7)
30th in total yards (429.3)
31st in passing yards (337.3)
9th in rushing yards (92)
Yes, I know the D has scored points and the special teams have allowed points--the NFL doesn't factor that into their charting however.
Adjusted stats:
Offense - 28.33 points per game
Know how many games NFL teams won scoring 31 or less Sunday? 13.
Know how many games NFL teams won scoring 28 or less last week? 13.
The offense isn't the problem.
Lanky Livingston
Guest
Those stats are skewed by QB runs. We disagree fundamentally on what the "running" game should consist of, so I don't know why you keep posting them.
Lanky Livingston
Guest
Well, I wasn't trying to compare the Eagles to the Redskins, just our pass/run ratio for that game. And, we were tied with the Bengals at 24 for awhile, and seemingly abandoned the run at that time.
Here are the two series after we tied the game, and mostly where my criticism is coming from.
Washington Redskins at 02:53
1-10-CIN 47
(2:53) (Shotgun) 16-B.Banks right end pushed ob at CIN 47 for no gain (55-V.Burfict).
2-10-CIN 47
(2:28) 10-R.Griffin sacked at WAS 45 for -8 yards (93-M.Johnson).
3-18-WAS 45
(1:56) (Shotgun) 10-R.Griffin pass incomplete deep left to 85-L.Hankerson [96-C.Dunlap].
4-18-WAS 45
(1:49) 6-S.Rocca punts 41 yards to CIN 14, Center-54-J.Snow, fair catch by 19-B.Tate
Washington Redskins at 00:04
1-10-WAS 47
04) (Shotgun) 10-R.Griffin pass incomplete short middle to 11-A.Robinson.END QUARTER 3
4th Quarter
Washington Redskins continues ...
2-10-WAS 47
(15:00) (Shotgun) 46-A.Morris up the middle to WAS 49 for 2 yards (99-M.Lawson; 94-D.Peko).
3-8-WAS 49
(14:24) (Shotgun) 10-R.Griffin left end to CIN 44 for 7 yards (58-R.Maualuga; 22-N.Clements).
0-0-
Timeout #1 by CIN at 13:41.
4-1-CIN 44
(13:41) 6-S.Rocca punts 44 yards to end zone, Center-54-J.Snow, Touchback. Washington challenged the touchback ruling, and the play was Upheld. (Timeout #3 at 13:27.)
Morris touches the ball once! In my opinion, when the game is tied, THAT'S when you dial up the running game, to drive down the field, use up the clock, and suck the will out of the opposing team. They were at home, they should have taken the game over at that point. Calling Banks' number at that point was a mistake, almost as bad as punting on 4th and 1.
tshile
Guest
because those plays are called and designed running plays.
just because you don't like who is carrying the ball doesn't mean they aren't designed running plays.
on those options griffin has the option to toss the ball to a running back. by your claim, if he decides to do that, all the sudden it's a legit running play. thats absolutely absurd.
if you want to factor out scrambles that makes all the sense in the world - they're called and designed passing plays. but to rule out designed running plays just because it doesn't fit the ridiculous agenda you're pushing is absurd.
First series: Run, pass, third-and-long (pass)
Second series: Pass, run, third-and-long (scramble)
That's not abandoning the run. That's simply not executing.
And for the gabillionth time, they didn't call Banks' number. He was part of the option in which Morris is the primary guy. It was Griffin's call to shift it to Banks, because the defense was keying on Morris.
Second series: Pass, run, third-and-long (scramble)
That's not abandoning the run. That's simply not executing.
And for the gabillionth time, they didn't call Banks' number. He was part of the option in which Morris is the primary guy. It was Griffin's call to shift it to Banks, because the defense was keying on Morris.
Goaldeje
The Legend
Great post, Henry. Truly. Remind me of one thing. When we ran Morris 28 times, what was the result of the game? And what was the result when Morris ran 17 times?
Ax
Guest
Looks like pistols at 20 paces is the only way to resolve this.
What do you guys say?
Lanky: "I'm runnin' this show."
tshile: "Pass."
What do you guys say?
Lanky: "I'm runnin' this show."
tshile: "Pass."
Lanky Livingston
Guest
Uh, no. 34 rushing plays is the total, which includes the broken down passing plays that turned into scrambles. We just went over this!
Lanky Livingston
Guest
Great post, Henry. Truly. Remind me of one thing. When we ran Morris 28 times, what was the result of the game? And what was the result when Morris ran 17 times?
Ding! Ding! Ding!
HOT DOG, WE HAVE A WIENER!
Lanky Livingston
Guest
Fine, its possibly not abandoning the run, but its certainly not committing to the run in a situation that calls for it.
That's my point, Banks should not be an option in that situation because Banks is terrible. And making him an option is the fault of Kyle and the game plan. He has to call that play, Banks doesn't line up in the backfield on every snap of the triple option.
Lanky, I think what you mean to say is not that we abandoned the run, but that you don't like Griffin running the ball so much.
Well, I do understand that. But if he doesn't we'll lose this game 38-17. If you guys are cool with our anemic offense-as-usual and want to see Griff simply drop back, get crushed by a pass rush we can't stop, and then hand it off to Morris a bunch for not much because we have no line I'm actually cool with that too. But I don't want to hear complaining about our game planning then.
The reason we are in games right now is because Griffin is so dynamic. If we just hand the ball off over and over and hope for the best we'll be the offense we've been for the past 15 years. That's not why we drafted Griffin. Let me repeat, our line sucks. Griffin is going to take a pounding no matter what we do. We knew this going in, didn't we? And given that, we may as well score a ton of points.
Frankly, I really don't understand complaining that we FINALLY have an offense ... after literally decades of suckage. Not only that the reason we have an offense is because we FINALLY drafted a QB that panned out! Hallelujah! Are we really going to argue style points right now?
Well, I do understand that. But if he doesn't we'll lose this game 38-17. If you guys are cool with our anemic offense-as-usual and want to see Griff simply drop back, get crushed by a pass rush we can't stop, and then hand it off to Morris a bunch for not much because we have no line I'm actually cool with that too. But I don't want to hear complaining about our game planning then.
The reason we are in games right now is because Griffin is so dynamic. If we just hand the ball off over and over and hope for the best we'll be the offense we've been for the past 15 years. That's not why we drafted Griffin. Let me repeat, our line sucks. Griffin is going to take a pounding no matter what we do. We knew this going in, didn't we? And given that, we may as well score a ton of points.
Frankly, I really don't understand complaining that we FINALLY have an offense ... after literally decades of suckage. Not only that the reason we have an offense is because we FINALLY drafted a QB that panned out! Hallelujah! Are we really going to argue style points right now?
The phrase association vs causation fallacy springs to mind here.
In the game Morris ran 28 times the Skins were protecting a 16 point lead in the 2nd half.
Not so much when he ran 17.
In the game Morris ran 28 times the Skins were protecting a 16 point lead in the 2nd half.
Not so much when he ran 17.
Bulldog
The Legend
Let's go back to page 1.
The unpleasant truth is the OL can't block anyone.
They made a Bengals defense that was awful the first two weeks look like the 2008 Steelers or the 2006 Bears.
The only reason the scored of these games are respectable is the play of Griffin.
And Shanahan's current playcalling will have Griffin on IR in the next couple of weeks.
Posted via BGO Mobile Device
The unpleasant truth is the OL can't block anyone.
They made a Bengals defense that was awful the first two weeks look like the 2008 Steelers or the 2006 Bears.
The only reason the scored of these games are respectable is the play of Griffin.
And Shanahan's current playcalling will have Griffin on IR in the next couple of weeks.
Posted via BGO Mobile Device
That is the offensive issue we should be concerned about, BD. The running game is producing. The passing game is essentially reduced to RG3 dumping off or having to run for his life becuase he has zero chance to set up and go through any kind of progressions.
The vaunted Shanahan "rollout game" is going to have to start to manifest soon because it doesn't look like the pocket game is going to be available in 2012. If and when this QB actually has time to look and go downfield, even on an average NFL level of consitency, he has a chance to be scary good. As it is, he's reduced to sandlot ball and the hope his body is as tough as his mind appears to be.
The vaunted Shanahan "rollout game" is going to have to start to manifest soon because it doesn't look like the pocket game is going to be available in 2012. If and when this QB actually has time to look and go downfield, even on an average NFL level of consitency, he has a chance to be scary good. As it is, he's reduced to sandlot ball and the hope his body is as tough as his mind appears to be.
Great post, Henry. Truly. Remind me of one thing. When we ran Morris 28 times, what was the result of the game? And what was the result when Morris ran 17 times?
Let's separate two things out here.
First, there's scoring a lot of points.
Second, there's the safety of our new QB.
Here is what I think:
If we are worried about scoring points I'm having a really hard time being critical of our team that scores more points than any other team in the league. Some of you seem to think we should be scoring even MORE points. I think you may have your standards set a liiiitle too high.
If we are worried about Griffin's safety ... well, the guy ran it 10 times in the opener too. He was taking brutal hits all game long that day too. There's a reason people sit on the ground when they 'Griffin.' If we want him to be safe and secure, then THIS game is not the problem. It's ALL the games he's played so far. His involvement in the offense needs to be scaled back dramatically, period. And like I said, I'm cool with that. I wrote this season off in June. If you guys are on board with me, fine. Let's all demand Griffin sit the pocket and throw it 20 times and the rest of the game hand it off. And we'll lose 12 games.
Let me know what you guys want to do.
I'm going to repeat myself until the fog of war lifts.
The Redskins are 1st in the NFL in offensive scoring at 33 points per game.
They are 30th defensively in points allowed at 33.7.
The defense is broken.
The Redskins are 1st in the NFL in offensive scoring at 33 points per game.
They are 30th defensively in points allowed at 33.7.
The defense is broken.
Goaldeje
The Legend
Henry, we're not going to convince one another, my friend. Lanky said it well a few pages ago. Holisitcally, I think the Skins ran the ball enough in the game. But situationally, when we were back in it and could have taken the lead, I think Kyle got cute. Just my opinion. I think Kyle calls an excellent GP most of the time, but occassionally, he gets cute. I thought he got cute on Sunday. You disagree. Because you're a mod, I'm going to let you win.
No one is saying the D is great. I think Kyle had two series in particular he blew. Haz pretty much sucked the entire game. So yeah, most of my ire is focused on Haz. But that doesn't mean there isn't room for improvement elsewhere.
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