The HC Dan Quinn Discussion Thread

[Voice_of_Reason]

Right, my point was these are all successful coaches who don't call plays on either side of the ball. Campbell, like Quinn, took play calling back when he saw it wasn't working anymore.

I don't see much difference between Quinn, Campbell, and Vrabel, stylistically or in approach. It's also easy to be a "great leader" when things are going well--but what happens when shit falls apart, like it did this past season. The Eagles won 11 games, and the division, and had issues with players all year, Brown specifically. Does Johnson hold the Bears together if they win 5-6 games? He seems like the type to start throwing people under the bus. You didn't see players quitting, pouting, complaining to the media this past year. In fact that fight vs. the Eagles was telling--they were pissed about the Eagles running up the score. This is an old reference, but back in the day when Alonso Spellman (I think it was Spellman, it might have been Demetrius Underwood) dragged Jeff George across the field in Dallas, after a sack, and no one did anything? That is a clear lack of leadership.

We'll see. The DC hire is going to be interesting.

Agree, you don't have to call plays or coordinate one side of the ball. For whatever reason, and maybe this is just perception, Vrabel just seems to be more "in control" than Quinn.

Here's the thing, when people say "CEO type" of QB, I don't think they know what CEOs do. They don't just sit there and delegate. They are MASSIVELY involved in every decision. Vrabel seems like he is that way, Quinn seems like he gives a lot more leash than maybe he should. There's a difference between delegating and empowering and being asleep at the wheel.

 

[Riggo44]

Agree, you don't have to call plays or coordinate one side of the ball. For whatever reason, and maybe this is just perception, Vrabel just seems to be more "in control" than Quinn.

Here's the thing, when people say "CEO type" of QB, I don't think they know what CEOs do. They don't just sit there and delegate. They are MASSIVELY involved in every decision. Vrabel seems like he is that way, Quinn seems like he gives a lot more leash than maybe he should. There's a difference between delegating and empowering and being asleep at the wheel.

Winning will do that. Quinn seemed to be on point last year, right? While their defense in the playoffs was really good, their offense, especially their QB, was pedestrian, at best. Kinda the complete opposite of us last year--defense wasn't good while our offense put up spectacular numbers.

 

[Conn]

Conn I think you're probably more down on Quinn than I am. I wasn't a huge fan of the hire. But I also think I was more generally positive about it than most. And again, if you're going to hold Quinn accountable for 2025, you have to give him credit for 2024. Both of those seasons happened, and it would be unfair to just grade one and hand wave the other to luck.

I really have no idea what is going to happen next year. And frankly, I think a lot of it, as I posted above somewhere (assuming it wasn't wiped out), is outside of Quinn's control.

- Peters has to get the roster with more talent and speed, specifically on defense everywhere and skill positions on offense.
- Daniels has to revert to 2024 form. We know he has it in him. We've seen it. And it wasn't like Griffin. JD5 was able to read the field and make accurate throws from the pocket in addition to scrambling and making plays off schedule. Griffin could barely operate in the pocket, he was basically used as a dual threat QB with a ridiculously good Shanahan style stretch-zone run scheme. So those comparisons are not apt. Daniels CAN do it. He just has to actually do it again.
- They can't have as many injuries.

Those are things outside of Quinn's control, to a large part.

What he needs to focus on is filling out the coaching staff and getting the team prepared. Especially early in the season.

It is disappointing Quinn hasn't been able to upgrade the staff given his reputation in the league.

But man, things change quickly. a year ago at this time, it would have been hard to predict this unless you predict doom in gloom for everything and happen to be right from time to time...

I think that’s mostly a fair assessment.

I think where we differ is that I see 2024 as an 8-win team that went on a magical run riding the golden arm and legs of one Jayden Daniels (alongside some lucky/timely turnovers). And I see 2025 as an 8-win team that had everything go wrong while the QB play/health couldn’t save it. A 4-5 game swing each season. This opinion isn’t new, and heavily influenced my opinion on Kliff as well after our successful 2024 (which I know we also disagree on), so it’s not personal to Quinn and it’s not just about 2025.

So I don’t overweight Quinn’s specific strengths/deficits in either the 2024 joyride or the 2025 nightmare ride to football hell. In both cases I question what exactly we get from Quinn as a leader, organizer, and football mind and see a lot of potential areas where we could improve and hire someone who actually gives us an advantage, in an ideal world. And I’ve felt that way since the great 2024 season, just like I did with Kliff. This staff gets equally-weighted credit for both those seasons, I just don’t think they’re “force-multipliers” like I want them to be. So they get less positive credit for 2024 and less negative credit for 2025, both being essentially the result of the talent on the roster, and it’s health, battling a schedule of opposing teams (and QB’s) that went from easier to harder. And in 2024 some of that talent had exceptional moments that let us rise above, and in 2025 it didn’t, compounded by injuries.

This all of course is also shaded by the job I think AP is doing, and I’ve been critical as well in that regard. But I have a much smaller sample size on him, and this is the Quinn thread. So Quinn catches the bullets, so to speak.

 

[CuredFromBatteredFanSyndrome]

I feel like if we are all being honest with ourselves, there’s no way that deep down, Dan Quinn feels like that dude.

Of course, in the midst of that magic carpet ride fueled by Jayden and his cape, all the rah-rah brotherhood stuff was endearing. Of course guys like and respect him. Of course we could do worse than him.

But this team dropped 8 in a row during the meat of the season, with a four game losing streak of 3 touchdowns or more. With one last chance to breathe life into this team, they showed up at home on Sunday Night football only to get curb stomped. His handpicked DC had his defense prepared to leave Darnold’s first read open, over and over and over again. To make matters worse, he almost lost Jayden for a long time by keeping his competitive ass in a completely non-competitive game.

Add to this all the gameday stuff that he’s never really been good at, besides just saying eff it and going for it on 4th all the time when Jayden was wearing his cape.

What’s the appeal? Besides guys liking and respecting him?

I need a ‘genius’ on one side of the ball that commands respect, not just a good dude who loves ball. There’s just nothing special about the guy that leads me to believe he is capable of delivering championship football.

I know that all sounds harsh, but I actually like Dan the dude and have no ill-will towards him.

 

[Conn]

They don't just sit there and delegate. They are MASSIVELY involved in every decision. Vrabel seems like he is that way, Quinn seems like he gives a lot more leash than maybe he should. There's a difference between delegating and empowering and being asleep at the wheel.

This I agree with in a big way and is a large part of my perception of Quinn. Whatever he’s doing, his touch either isn’t helping or conversely, his fingers aren’t in enough pies and he’s not adding whatever his particular special sauce is enough. If he has it. Which is what I’m questioning more than anything else. I think he’s a fine baseline guy when he’s got talent around him. I just want better than that. What is he personally elevating? That’s what I need to see. I want OUR guy, that no one can steal away because he’s our HC, to be an asset to the org that gives us a tangible advantage. That’s what I question. And I questioned it during and after 2024 as well, this isn’t just about 2025.

 

[Voice_of_Reason]

This I agree with in a big way and is a large part of my perception of Quinn. Whatever he’s doing, his touch either isn’t helping or conversely, his fingers aren’t in enough pies and he’s not adding whatever his particular special sauce is enough. If he has it. Which is what I’m questioning more than anything else. I think he’s a fine baseline guy when he’s got talent around him. I just want better than that. What is he personally elevating? That’s what I need to see. I want OUR guy, that no one can steal away because he’s our HC, to be an asset to the org that gives us a tangible advantage. That’s what I question. And I questioned it during and after 2024 as well, this isn’t just about 2025.

I think this is fair. For Quinn to really be succesful, what we've seen is he needs the right situation for him to manage. However, he doesn't always help put himself in that right situation.

In Atlanta, I give him credit for bringing in Kyle and the Redskins 2013 coaching staff and pairing them with Matt Ryan, and they got to a SB, and should have won it.

Then Kyle goes away, and the whole thing falls apart even though he still has prime Matt Ryan. He could never get the defense to be above average, either.

Now, in 2024, he created a perfect situation for Daniels, supported by Kliff, Pritchard, Blough. But the defense was a train wreck last year and he didn't realize or fix the fact the DC was part of the problem. Then they decide to flip out Kliff, and they had already decided to part ways with Whitt, so now Quinn has to re-put himself into a good position. I think it might be once per team.

We'll see. There are things I like about Quinn. There are things I don't like. If he would fix the preparation aspect of the team, I think that would go a long way to making me feel better about him overall.

 

[RWJ]

I think this is fair. For Quinn to really be succesful, what we've seen is he needs the right situation for him to manage. However, he doesn't always help put himself in that right situation.

In Atlanta, I give him credit for bringing in Kyle and the Redskins 2013 coaching staff and pairing them with Matt Ryan, and they got to a SB, and should have won it.

Then Kyle goes away, and the whole thing falls apart even though he still has prime Matt Ryan. He could never get the defense to be above average, either.

Now, in 2024, he created a perfect situation for Daniels, supported by Kliff, Pritchard, Blough. But the defense was a train wreck last year and he didn't realize or fix the fact the DC was part of the problem. Then they decide to flip out Kliff, and they had already decided to part ways with Whitt, so now Quinn has to re-put himself into a good position. I think it might be once per team.

We'll see. There are things I like about Quinn. There are things I don't like. If he would fix the preparation aspect of the team, I think that would go a long way to making me feel better about him overall.

I am not a DQ fan per say (I was on the McDonald train for HC) but I like your points and they are fair and I agree. I think in any HC, know your targets and get them. Be proactive first and then reactive when you must. You build a team and build depth same should be said for your coaching staff. As you pointed out when your front line troops are hired you have someone in place or others in place that can fill those positions. Both DQ and AP have a lot of work to do.

 

[skinsinparadise]

Quinn is a tough call for me. Do a buy that unlike Ron for example he's obsessed with learning from his mistakes? Yes. Do I think based on rep he works hard? Yes. Do I think he's a good motivator and leader of men? Yes. Do I think it means something? Yes, even though that point turns into a punchline when a team loses. Do I think he's a good defensive coordinator? Yes.

He has all the ingredients to be a really good head coach and bounce back from this last season. But my pause with him is...

A. Per Conn's point about coaches being force multipliers -- where we got so many coaches calling plays and obsessed with X's and O's, I don't get the narrative that Quinn has no time for it. I was listening to Joe Theismann go on talking about this subject and making the case that Quinn shouldn't be calling plays, don't we all know how much time HC duties take and he can't do both. Really? His head coach, Joe Gibbs did both. Plenty did and do both.

And its not that I am clamoring for Quinn to run the defense, but I don't get the impression he's hands on as to game planning for that unit and if so I don't get it. If he gets fired next year part of his legacy would be one of the better defensive coodinators of his time but couldn't oddly figure out how to incorporate that as a HC because he seemed to be determined to be a John Harbaugh CEO-motivator type head coach not an X's and O's guy. So to me his whole journey on this feels odd.

Comes off like he'd rather be known as a Tony Robbins type motivator -- like a Dick Vermeil, Pete Carroll, Lombardi type and not a Bill Belichick, Mike McDonald type. Wants to be a motivator more than a strategist albiet he does have that ability to be a strategist.

B. Him being a nice guy is a double edge sword. That's why he rode it I assume longer than he needed to with Whitt. It's probably why he didn't want to take Wagner off on passing downs, etc.

 

[Voice_of_Reason]

Quinn is a tough call for me. Do a buy that unlike Ron for example he's obsessed with learning from his mistakes? Yes. Do I think based on rep he works hard? Yes. Do I think he's a good motivator and leader of men? Yes. Do I think it means something? Yes, even though that point turns into a punchline when a team loses. Do I think he's a good defensive coordinator? Yes.

I agree with most of this but I'm not sure HOW good a DC he is. The defense he had in Seattle had like 4 HOFers on it. I could probably coordinate the legion of boom defense to being respectable by just saying "go out there and do things." (That's an exaggeration, but that defense was loaded.)

His defenses as HC when he was in Atlanta were mediocre at best.

His defenses in Dallas were really good, but again, they had some really top-end talent. And that said, they got boat raced by certain style's of offense.

And his defenses here have been putrid, though he hasn't been the coordinator. However, I'm a manager. If one of my teams is completely under-performing, I step in and fix it. Nobody has to tell me to do that. I just do it. Because it's my team that's under-performing. I have to think he was helping Whitt before he had to replace Whitt, and it was all bad.

He has all the ingredients to be a really good head coach and bounce back from this last season. But my pause with him is...

A. Per Conn's point about coaches being force multipliers -- where we got so many coaches calling plays and obsessed with X's and O's, I don't get the narrative that Quinn has no time for it. I was listening to Joe Theismann go on talking about this subject and making the case that Quinn shouldn't be calling plays, don't we all know how much time HC duties take and he can't do both. Really? His head coach, Joe Gibbs did both. Plenty did and do both.

Where were you listening to Joe Theismann? I want to make sure I avoid it. I really liked Joey T. on the Sunday Night Football broadcast a million years ago. However, his Redskins/Team/Commanders analysis has been completely crap for years and years.

Quinn has the time to run the defense and be Head Coach. More than half the league has coaches who run a side of the ball and are the head coach.

I don't think he doesn't want to do it because he's lazy, though. And that's important. From what I've heard reported by JP and maybe Keim, dude lives in the building. He puts in the hours. It's really possible he needs to work "smarter not harder." (I had a boss from New England early on in my career who said that with a great New England accent, and then caught himself, and said, "damn, you gotta take my New England accent out of that." )

And its not that I am clamoring for Quinn to run the defense, but I don't get the impression he's hands on as to game planning for that unit and if so I don't get it. If he gets fired next year part of his legacy would be one of the better defensive coodinators of his time but couldn't oddly figure out how to incorporate that as a HC because he seemed to be determined to be a John Harbaugh CEO-motivator type head coach not an X's and O's guy. So to me his whole journey on this feels odd.

Comes off like he'd rather be known as a Tony Robbins type motivator -- like a Dick Vermeil, Pete Carroll, Lombardi type and not a Bill Belichick, Mike McDonald type. Wants to be a motivator more than a strategist albiet he does have that ability to be a strategist.

Pete Carrol, at least initially, was SUPER involved in the defensive side of the ball. Quinn might have been DC, but it was Carroll's defense which he was running in Seattle. Did that change over the years? Maybe.

B. Him being a nice guy is a double edge sword. That's why he rode it I assume longer than he needed to with Whitt. It's probably why he didn't want to take Wagner off on passing downs, etc.

I dunno. There are plenty of nice guys who also are able to make tough calls on staff. I'm not sure him being a nice guy is why he mis-handled Whitt or Wagner.

I think he didn't see a better obvious answer for Wagner and wasn't willing to take a risk in playing a younger guy, and he wanted to let Whitt work through it because that's something you have to do when you get a guy in a new job. You can't expect a guy to take a new job and be perfect at it immediately. You have to let them grow into it.

However, one of my favorite business terms also comes into play: The Peter Principal, which states that people will rise to their level of incompetence. Essentially, you'll keep getting promoted until you get promoted to a job you can't do.

So then there's a balance: how long do you give a person to learn and grow before figuring out they are an example of the Peter Principal. There's no exact science to that. Quinn waited too long on Whitt. Also, he should have been helping Whitt more along the way.

 

[skinsinparadise]

I agree with most of this but I'm not sure HOW good a DC he is. The defense he had in Seattle had like 4 HOFers on it. I could probably coordinate the legion of boom defense to being respectable by just saying "go out there and do things." (That's an exaggeration, but that defense was loaded.)

His defenses as HC when he was in Atlanta were mediocre at best.

His defenses in Dallas were really good, but again, they had some really top-end talent. And that said, they got boat raced by certain style's of offense.

I don't think his defenses in Dallas were loaded, and they sucked before he took over and then sucked again when he left. But yeah the hands off version of his defenses as a HC not being hot is part of my point.

Where were you listening to Joe Theismann? I want to make sure I avoid it. I really liked Joey T. on the Sunday Night Football broadcast a million years ago. However, his Redskins/Team/Commanders analysis has been completely crap for years and years.

if I recall the right segment it was on a Standig podcast.

 

[CuredFromBatteredFanSyndrome]

I’m not sure how to take these rumors that we had offered McDonald the gig, but not enough compensation to keep him from Seattle.

On one hand, I’m glad they wanted to hire McDonald. On the other, getting outbid on such a huge decision doesn’t give me the warm and fuzzies. Especially when we also consider the frugal offseason we just had.

 

[HOF44]

I’m not sure how to take these rumors that we had offered McDonald the gig, but not enough compensation to keep him from Seattle.

On one hand, I’m glad they wanted to hire McDonald. On the other, getting outbid on such a huge decision doesn’t give me the warm and fuzzies. Especially when we also consider the frugal offseason we just had.

If that’s true, and he was who AP wanted but they limited his ability to fund the deal, it just goes along with all the other signs that Harris is cash strapped or unwilling to fund what it takes to staff a top notch NFL team.

 

[RedWolf]

Thread from hell 🤣

 

[Voice_of_Reason]

So Quinn made what seems to be a good hire for DC.

Now it’s going to be interesting to see how the rest of the staff shapes up. I’d assume there would be a few more shuffles on both sides of the ball.

Quinn now needs to figure out how to change the preparation for the entire team. So they get more out of the off season program and also training camp.

I really wish they went away for training camp.

 

[burgold]

Both these coordinator hires speak of confidence to me. Quinn is shooting for two upside coordinators not playing it safe like someone afraid he's about to be fired. Let's hope he chose well.

 

[Voice_of_Reason]

Both these coordinator hires speak of confidence to me. Quinn is shooting for two upside coordinators not playing it safe like someone afraid he's about to be fired. Let's hope he chose well.

If he didn’t, he’s not going to survive it.

 

[skinsinparadise]

Jason Reid who is a miserable hater, doubling down that Quinn is on the hot seat. I am not sure about Blough, will see. But even if his point is true that a veteran D coordinator wouldn't want to come here, I like the Daronte Jones hire, feels better to me than a retread.

 

[Riggo44]

I immediately dismiss anything Reid, Jason LaCantReporta, Grand and/or Danny, Lynell Willingham, Chris Russell, or Mike Florio say.

 

[burgold]

Even if it's true, I like the idea of going down swinging. Going for two first year coordinators who have good pedigrees is aggressive. I really don't doubt that Quinn could have gotten a hohum do no harm coordinator in the style we've seen in the past when Gruden, Shanny, and Rivera decided to switch coaches. Bur frankly, we know how that plays out. At best, we see competence. Most of the time, we see uninspired, well-washed, pablum that fails.

Given that his (we assume) two first choices for DC stayed home, this was Quinn saying let me give a guy his shot. The DC choice isn't as daring as the OC pick. On the other hand from what we've read, the Commanders truly believed that Blough would have been someone else's OC this year if they let him out the door so maybe the DC throw of the dice is just as daring.

Still, this is a coach going for it. He's not hiring the scraps desperate enough to take any job offered them because they have zero other opportunities. It's not going for warmed over coordinators who always seem to get a job like your Ernie Zampesie's. It's going for a pair of coordinators who now will have their first chance to make their name.

It could fail. It certainly will be bumpy at times. But it is not they play of someone trying to get to 8-8-1.

 

[Primus Porcus]

Even if it's true, I like the idea of going down swinging. Going for two first year coordinators who have good pedigrees is aggressive. I really don't doubt that Quinn could have gotten a hohum do no harm coordinator in the style we've seen in the past when Gruden, Shanny, and Rivera decided to switch coaches. Bur frankly, we know how that plays out. At best, we see competence. Most of the time, we see uninspired, well-washed, pablum that fails.

Given that his (we assume) two first choices for DC stayed home, this was Quinn saying let me give a guy his shot. The DC choice isn't as daring as the OC pick. On the other hand from what we've read, the Commanders truly believed that Blough would have been someone else's OC this year if they let him out the door so maybe the DC throw of the dice is just as daring.

Still, this is a coach going for it. He's not hiring the scraps desperate enough to take any job offered them because they have zero other opportunities. It's not going for warmed over coordinators who always seem to get a job like your Ernie Zampesie's. It's going for a pair of coordinators who now will have their first chance to make their name.

It could fail. It certainly will be bumpy at times. But it is not they play of someone trying to get to 8-8-1.

Yeah this comes across to me as a guy looking for long term sustained success, not immediate job security. It may be a terrible decision on his part, as if it blows up in his face, it's likely his last chance HERE to build a coaching staff... but he couldnt have targeted retreads and stability, and mired us with the next 2-3 of average football. This leans more toward staff development long term, and team success... or failure.