The HC Dan Quinn Discussion Thread

Things could ALWAYS be worse. Everyone pulling out of the Browns job.

 
To me injuries were like 75% of the problem but Quinn didn't do himself any favors in the process. As you pointed out, I presume echoing Al Galdi because its been his mantra, pull off some upset at least once. And he couldn't. I think camp felt like one long walk through to ensure the team is rested for the playoff run.
I actually had the same thought either at the same time or before Galdi. I was like, "Moron Idiot Jay Gruden could pull off a win from time to time short handed, why can't you?"

I think 75% might be a bit high, actually. I think there were other things in addition to the injuries which led to their downfall, most notably their DC was not qualified for his job, team speed on defense was bad, and Lattimore was a liability and Sainristil was probably playing out of position, so the CBs were a complete mess. Most of the unrelated to injuries problems were on the defensive side. The offense did what it could, and generally pretty well, with what it had, absent a few games/situations.

They were according to Pats beat guys, getting destroyed by the Pats in the practice scrimmage then got destroyed in the preseason game. The whole preseason-summer came off like a lackluster, uninspired effort. And for those who covered that camp, who also covered Jay, they basically depicted that camp as the easiest they've seen -- easier than camp Jay.
This is my biggest criticism of Quinn. It was also of my biggest criticisms of moron Jay Gruden. They NEVER had their team prepped and ready to play early in the season. Jay only won one opener, 2018 against the Cardinals (the Alex Smith year), and then they turned around and lost week 2.

Quinn's 2024 team looked unprepared in week 1, though some of that might have been a rookie QB in his first start. Ok, but then do more to prepare him.

Last year, Daniels had 1 series, 0 passes in the preseason. That's nowhere near enough. I was SUPER DUPER critical of that when it happened.

Hell, into his 40's, Brady wanted to get out in preseason and get some real reps because it's a long time without live action between Jan/Feb and September. If Brady wanted live reps, then sure as hell a rookie/second year QB needs live reps.

Quinn said he learned hundreds of things as to what to do differently from 2025. That's good. Also Keim said privately Quinn isn't excusing the season to injuries, he knows they made mistakes. Good, too.

Now, lets see what he does with this? Heck even the injury issue is worth exploring. The Packers said they play their guys in the preseason because of studies they've seen that if you don't, you are more vulnerable to early season injuries.

I know Quinn isn't the only coach who treats the preseason and camp like a joke. But for a team with so many new moving parts who needed to adjust to the scheme, new teammates, etc, maybe he shouldn't have?"
The treatment of the off-season was just wrong. Quinn needs to fix that. We don't need the junction boys or anything, but we need something which is better than we had.
 
Him and Rosen lol, I am sure you recall I beat up. Some forgot about Rosen but I was just as harsh but he dissapeared so it became irrelevant and Darnold stuck around.
I fully recall Darnold and was with you on him. I forgot all about the Rosen saga lol
 
Things could ALWAYS be worse. Everyone pulling out of the Browns job.


I don't know where I posted this, but they Browns owe Deshawn Watson $80m against the cap this season, his last season under contract, and then $27m in dead cap next season, and then more dead cap the next 2 seasons.

There is no way I'm touching the Brown's job if over the next 2-3 years, they're going to have to account for ~$130m against the cap any which way you cut it. Given the contract was fully guaranteed, they have to account for every dollar of the contract under the cap eventually.

We thought the $36m over 2 years was a big deal. Granted it was 2012. But imagine having an $80m cap penalty now?

Nobody should touch that job. It's career suicide.

And there might be other reasons, and probably are other reasons, but that is the #1 reason to stay away.
 
It’s pretty frustrating watching us seemingly struggle to hire a qualified, experienced DC to run things while we have Quinn in the building who should be doing it, while mentoring younger in-name-only-DC’s into either eventually playcalling at that position, or into HC hires around the league after we have an elite D. That’s what we expect from elite offensive HC’s around the league so isn’t it silly to hold defensive guys to a different standard?

Macdonald is gameplanning and calling the plays while leading the Seahawks to a Super Bowl appearance. Doesn’t seem to be too much for him, and he knows that’s what makes him special and that it’s what qualified him to lead a team in the first place. And he’s so good that we want his Defensive Passing Game Coordinator (who didn’t call plays or run the D) to be our DC now, because that brush with Macdonald and time under him is valuable.

Who says that about Quinn assistants? Nobody, because he isn’t running his own unit or developing potential future stud DC’s.

Robert Saleh, upon getting his second (and likely final) HC opportunity with the Titans recently, said one of his lessons learned was that he needs to be calling his plays and running his defense, not entrusting it to someone else. It’s what makes him special.

But during his hiatus, Quinn’s big takeaway was that he needs to delegate everything. I hope Quinn can CEO us to victory, since he thinks his defensive expertise isn’t worth more than the other stuff he brings to the table that he can do with that time. Wonder what that is? Because our time management in games still isn’t great, our timeout usage and penalty discipline isn’t great, we don’t seem prepared and he’s not riding guys and creating a high-expectation environment, clearly…or we wouldn’t be talking about Camp Jay vs. Camp Quinn. So what exactly is he doing all week? Where’s that energy and effort going if not into the D for 1.5 seasons until he finally benched Whitt?

To give him credit, the team didn’t quit on him. Guys like him a lot and still played hard during a disaster season, I don’t want to downplay that. But how long does that last if things start going south again? When we talk about offensive HC’s, we talk about what an advantage it is to not have your O brain hired away every year if you have an elite QB, etc. What a super power that guy brings to the job. Hypothetically, a defensive HC would bring that same advantage to the job, but on defense. His guys could get hired away or moved on from and he’d still be running the show.

With Quinn we get neither. Is he THAT elite a culture-builder to counter balance that? His ability to recruit other coaches is THAT elite (apparently not, looking at our offseason so far)? Our operation is THAT efficient and elite on gameday because he’s not running a unit in addition to his HC duties (hint: no)?

Okay so what the hell are we doing then, besides proving to the world that we don’t have a quick trigger finger for the next guy, who hopefully does have these qualities?

This isn’t a great crop of offensive HC candidates, so I’m kind of glad we aren’t looking right now. That’s what I’ve wanted since day 1. This gives another year for them to emerge.

But this is why I definitely see this upcoming season as an obvious bridge year for us, and seemingly so do a bunch of coaches who are skeptical about working here if they have any other options. So we’ll see. I hope to be wrong, I’d much rather be a playoff team.

But I just don’t see what Quinn brings to the table for us that’s elite. What does he do that gives us an advantage. Maybe he’s an elite culture-builder (though I don’t think we’re disciplined or consistent enough for that to be the case—I just think guys really like him and don’t want to quit on him. Which isn’t the same thing as building a winning culture). But that effort from the guys can only last so long if nothing else works in the operation. So…we’ll see.
 
Yeah VOR, the Seattle coaching staff has done a damn good job with Darnold. KOC worked wonders with him, too. I suspect he finally got solid coaching and development after hitting SF, MN and Seattle. I'm happy for him. Imagine if he actually wins a SB. That's something hard to imagine 5, 6 years ago.

As for DQ, poor decisions often have a way of coming back to bite. Here's hoping we're on much better footing moving forward.
I tend to agree.

We can definitely hope, but the signs on DQ just aren’t encouraging. Trends matter and if you follow the messaging of Macdonald and DQ, you can see differences in quality.
It’s pretty frustrating watching us seemingly struggle to hire a qualified, experienced DC to run things while we have Quinn in the building who should be doing it, while mentoring younger in-name-only-DC’s into either eventually playcalling at that position, or into HC hires around the league after we have an elite D. That’s what we expect from elite offensive HC’s around the league so isn’t it silly to hold defensive guys to a different standard?

Macdonald is gameplanning and calling the plays while leading the Seahawks to a Super Bowl appearance. Doesn’t seem to be too much for him, and he knows that’s what makes him special and that it’s what qualified him to lead a team in the first place. And he’s so good that we want his Defensive Passing Game Coordinator (who didn’t call plays or run the D) to be our DC now, because that brush with Macdonald and time under him is valuable.

Who says that about Quinn assistants? Nobody, because he isn’t running his own unit or developing potential future stud DC’s.

Robert Saleh, upon getting his second (and likely final) HC opportunity with the Titans recently, said one of his lessons learned was that he needs to be calling his plays and running his defense, not entrusting it to someone else. It’s what makes him special.
There's a big article on Vrabel on ESPN talking about how he is a CEO style.
Granted, a lot of the article is the typical fluff piece when a coach has success, but you CAN look at the hard data/hints and get some good info still.

He does what I thought DQ was going to do. That is a style that works, and it's not a bad style at all frankly. The key requirement is your hiring ability has to be good - that is a skill that not everyone has. Hiring isn't just about finding "talented people" but you have to either establish your culture and find fit, or you have to go the other way - find the talent and make sure the culture works for them. Sometimes you bend "culture" just a bit to make sure talented people are happy.

DQ so far has been unsuccessful here at hiring, and for a CEO style coach? That's a death knell. As we have all said, he simply has no wiggle room anymore. He may not have to get these picks perfect, but the structure has to be right at the very least. I think he hired guys he was comfortable with but he didn't set up the structure he wanted, and that's why we are where we are today. We've heard many of the reporters talk about DQ's desire for collaborative coaching, but there are many indications he didn't have that in DQ v1.0 here. That's not OK; that's a failure in hiring. DQ v2.0, regardless of anything else, has to feature the aspects he wants. He has to make sure that happens. CEO style coaches can only thrive covering those bases, and he did a really bad job of it in v1.0 by all accounts.

This is why making the NFCCG unfortunately doesn't buy DQ much. When he fired his coordinators, it was an admission that he saw his mistakes. That can be looked on as a mix of good and bad, but I think it undeniably puts pressure on him to have fixed those issues in his hiring practices. We'll see.
 
Dan Campbell doesn't call plays.
Mike Vrabel doesn't call plays.
Nick Sirianni doesn't call plays.
John Harbaugh doesn't call plays.
Sean McDermott didn't call plays.
 
I tend to agree.

We can definitely hope, but the signs on DQ just aren’t encouraging. Trends matter and if you follow the messaging of Macdonald and DQ, you can see differences in quality.

There's a big article on Vrabel on ESPN talking about how he is a CEO style.
Granted, a lot of the article is the typical fluff piece when a coach has success, but you CAN look at the hard data/hints and get some good info still.

He does what I thought DQ was going to do. That is a style that works, and it's not a bad style at all frankly. The key requirement is your hiring ability has to be good - that is a skill that not everyone has. Hiring isn't just about finding "talented people" but you have to either establish your culture and find fit, or you have to go the other way - find the talent and make sure the culture works for them. Sometimes you bend "culture" just a bit to make sure talented people are happy.

DQ so far has been unsuccessful here at hiring, and for a CEO style coach? That's a death knell. As we have all said, he simply has no wiggle room anymore. He may not have to get these picks perfect, but the structure has to be right at the very least. I think he hired guys he was comfortable with but he didn't set up the structure he wanted, and that's why we are where we are today. We've heard many of the reporters talk about DQ's desire for collaborative coaching, but there are many indications he didn't have that in DQ v1.0 here. That's not OK; that's a failure in hiring. DQ v2.0, regardless of anything else, has to feature the aspects he wants. He has to make sure that happens. CEO style coaches can only thrive covering those bases, and he did a really bad job of it in v1.0 by all accounts.

Yes, Vrabel falls under that category. Being a Boston guy, I’m super familiar with him over the decades and I think in terms of “this type” he definitely edges Quinn out as a leader of men type, and also has the kind of cheat code that is Josh McDaniels having failed epically as a HC…twice! While being a brilliant offensive mind. So he’s got what the Chiefs have had with Spags for years—an elite veteran Coordinator holding down an entire side of the ball who is going nowhere.

People hoped we had that with Kliff, but many of us knew we did not, for various reasons.

Dan Campbell is another example. Looking less hot now that he’s lost his coordinators and is rotating through trying to replace what he lost.

Harbaugh, same. Almost 20 years in Baltimore might’ve made his way just grow stale in recent years with another generation of players, but he’s also struggled more with coordinators on offense (and lost Macdonald more recently).

It can work. My post wasn’t about how a CEO HC can’t work, although structurally I have long term concerns about that setup for the reasons stated. The same fluff articles were written about Quinn as a culture builder and coach-hirer when we went to the NFCCG, to be fair.

My post was about—what does QUINN bring to the table as a CEO HC that’s so special, as our sample size keeps growing?
 
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My post was about—what does QUINN bring to the table as a CEO HC that’s so special, as our sample size keeps growing?
Personally, I am not sure how smart DQ actually is, here.

I mean, to my eye, it looks like in his first stint with ATL, he was maybe more involved with things? I don't really know, but I am basing that off of his (I think this is how he discussed it) revelation that he needs to be more of a CEO style HC and he has the right ideas on organizational structure for this go around.

OK.

The thing is, it should have been obvious that he needed to hire coordinators that fit what he wanted to build. That should have been criteria. I don't think his hiring practice was good, and I think the sell job at that time may have been stronger than what it is now, so that was maybe an expensive miss. I am not sure on his sell job in hiring (at all) - I mean, that's just an aspect of hiring.

Hoping that he learned something that should have been obvious already seems like stretching to give US some hope. That said - there are other potential factors at play that we may not be privy to, so certainly - I think Blough can indeed work out. If they can get one of the talented coaches who may still be coaching, that would be a good get. My opinion of DQ and his positioning as "CEO Style" -- my eval of that will hinge a lot on who he picks for his DC. Of course, even there, we'll see how the season plays out - but we'll have a better gauge/guess after the DC pick since a lot of the eval on the OC pick is invisible to us and hopefully visible to them.
 
Dan Campbell doesn't call plays.

Cool! Quinn isn’t Campbell as a leader, and Campbell is going to get himself fired if he can’t find great coordinators again after having them stolen.

Also, Quinn couldn’t come to terms collaborating with his hand-picked OC Kliff, when their styles differed. And they had to part ways. While Campbell created something so appealing in his building that Ben Johnson put off HC opportunities to return and take another swing when he was the hottest thing going. Very different.

Mike Vrabel doesn't call plays.

Cool! Quinn isn’t Vrabel as a leader, Vrabel has the never-getting-hired-away-again cheat code of Josh McDaniels developing his franchise QB. And we’ll see how it goes over the next year or two regardless. But everyone in this league would prefer Vrabel to Quinn (except us I guess)

Nick Sirianni doesn't call plays.

Sirianni coaches arguably the most talented roster in the league and still has almost gotten fired a couple times, it’s documented. I wouldn’t want Sirianni and his time in PHI is limited if he doesn’t nail his own coordinator replacements. See a theme developing?

John Harbaugh doesn't call plays.

Cool! Quinn isn’t Harbaugh as a leader, and Harbaugh is from another era and things eventually got stale when his coordinators didn’t produce elite units. He’s a legacy guy, an undeniable culture builder supported by arguably the best organization in the league for almost two decades. No comparison, but a data point certainly. He doesn’t represent what the newer elite franchise are doing, though.

Sean McDermott didn't call plays.

I don’t know how to feel about McDermott. Inarguably more qualified than Quinn, but my Bills fan friends wanted him (and Beane—bc they mistakenly thought they were a package deal) gone for multiple years to shake up the org and are horrified that they may be keeping Joe Brady for Allen. McDermott won a ton of games. Clearly a good coach. I don’t have anything to take away when trying to compare him to Quinn. Org failed to get him talent to help Josh Allen, I guess, which could be a comparison if we don’t get our shit together. I’d certainly take McDermott over Quinn if there was no qualified offensive brainiac available, when the time comes.

Don’t really know what your point is unless you’d take Quinn over all these guys, or most of them? Which I know isn’t true.

I never said a CEO HC can’t work, although I voiced structural concerns with the setup that we’ve all talked about endlessly.

I have questions about Quinn specifically in that role and what value THAT brings to us. Which comparisons to other CEO HC’s can’t answer (though many of them make him look quite bad)

Thanks for the post, though. I think it helps illustrate quite nicely how we seem to have basically the worst version of “CEO HC” across the league, out of the teams that run that model, and is a nice way to compare and contrast where we’d rather be, looking at that list.
 
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Quinn isn’t <<insert coach here>> as a leader
Based on what? What's the difference between Quinn and Campbell or Vrabel, as a leader, specifically? What do they do or don't do that makes them better than Quinn? Ben Johnson going back because he's an asshole? Good data point.
Thanks for the post, though. I think it helps illustrate quite nicely how we seem to have basically the worst version of “CEO HC” across the league
Did I? Because all you said was a blanket statement without any real corroboration other than your opinion. How many people and coaches have openly said they'd sign up go work for Quinn? He has a sterling reputation across the league as a leader.

And Daniels had that offense humming against real defenses, didn't he?
 
Conn you're exactly right.

I've said this before also, probably not as eloquently. However, it's something McVay said in an interview when he was hired as Rams head coach: the reason I'm being hired is because of my offense and offensive play calling. I can't give that up.

If you look at the majority of the top HC's in the league, they call plays on their side of the ball. Not all. But a lot. And those that don't, have significant input on their side of the ball:

- Andy Reid: Calls offense
- Kyle Shanahan: Calls offense
- Sean McVay: Calls offense
- Mike Macdermott: Calls defense
- KOC: Calls offense
- LaFleur: Calls offense
- Sean Payton: Calls offense
...

Mike McCarthy took over play calling in Dallas, I don't know what he's going to do with the steelers. I think the guy in Jacksonville called the offense. McDaniels called the offense in Miami.

The HCs who call their side of the ball far outweighs the HCs who don't. There isn't a one size fits all. Belichick used to call the defense for the Patriots, then turned it over. However, you got the feeling the DC was just doing exactly what Bill wanted them to do, even if he didn't call the defense, it was his defense and he could overrule or step in at any point.

Honestly, the only really good coaches who don't call a side of the ball are the Harbaughs. McDermott didn't, and neither did Tomlin. However both are on a hiatus.

I also think Quinn should be entirely responsible for the defense. My bigger question is, how good a DC is he? I think he's good. His defenses in Dallas were good. But they really struggled with the WCO - Shanahan variant. Why? Well, probably many reasons. One of which being the WCO if executed well is REALLY tough to stop under the best of circumstances.

I do wonder the longer this goes on if they don't go the route of Quinn keeping DC responsibilities. However, with a very inexperienced OC in Blough, that is a risk.
 
Based on what? What's the difference between Quinn and Campbell or Vrabel, as a leader, specifically? What do they do or don't do that makes them better than Quinn?

Because I think they are. You’re welcome to disagree. Most observers would probably agree with me though. It’s their calling card. Quinn is a nice guy and a culture builder as well, but I don’t think people talk about him like they do infamous “football guys” Campbell, Vrabel, Harbaugh, etc.

Doesn’t mean he can’t have other strengths that may outweigh this one. And there’s no obvious rubric, so again you’re welcome to your own thoughts. But if you go to fans of 31 other teams and tell them you think Dan Quinn is a leader of men on the level of Dan Campbell and Mike Vrabel, I think you’d get laughed out of every sports bar in America.

And the wisdom of crowds may be a less appealing idea now than in the past, but I’m simply demonstrating that the idea isn’t absurd. More would agree than disagree.

Those teams rise and fall with the passion and emotional leadership of their HC’s. Do you really feel that way about Quinn?

Ben Johnson going back because he's an asshole? Good data point.

It wasn’t just us Johnson rejected, he just unprofessionally waited until we were on a plane to see him (and Glenn) to reject us specifically. But he removed himself from consideration for a bunch of other jobs and went back to coach for Campbell one last time to try and win a SB with the Lions.

Meanwhile Quinn couldn’t get his chosen OC Kliff to agree to adjust what he’s doing and make things work. They couldn’t reconcile their differences in philosophy.

I think those two situations are pretty interesting in terms of culture, leadership, and getting other professionals to follow you.

Fine, again, if you don’t agree.

How many people and coaches have openly said they'd sign up go work for Quinn? He has a sterling reputation across the league as a leader.

Interesting. How many of them are rushing to actually work for him now when his career as a HC is on the line? Seems quiet

It’s easy to talk well of a guy. Tougher to put your career in his hands when you really have to decide how competent he is at his own job.

But I hope to see Quinn’s “sterling reputation” help us win us win many more playoff games. I hope I’m wrong and this isn’t a bridge year. We’ll see.

Rivera was really, really respected across the league.
 
Dan Campbell doesn't call plays.
Mike Vrabel doesn't call plays.
Nick Sirianni doesn't call plays.
John Harbaugh doesn't call plays.
Sean McDermott didn't call plays.
Campbell started calling plays this year. I think because the offense was busted and he was trying to fix it.

Sirianni did call plays when he was hired, then he turned over play calling.
 
Campbell started calling plays this year. I think because the offense was busted and he was trying to fix it.

Sirianni did call plays when he was hired, then he turned over play calling.
Right, my point was these are all successful coaches who don't call plays on either side of the ball. Campbell, like Quinn, took play calling back when he saw it wasn't working anymore.

I don't see much difference between Quinn, Campbell, and Vrabel, stylistically or in approach. It's also easy to be a "great leader" when things are going well--but what happens when shit falls apart, like it did this past season. The Eagles won 11 games, and the division, and had issues with players all year, Brown specifically. Does Johnson hold the Bears together if they win 5-6 games? He seems like the type to start throwing people under the bus. You didn't see players quitting, pouting, complaining to the media this past year. In fact that fight vs. the Eagles was telling--they were pissed about the Eagles running up the score. This is an old reference, but back in the day when Alonso Spellman (I think it was Spellman, it might have been Demetrius Underwood) dragged Jeff George across the field in Dallas, after a sack, and no one did anything? That is a clear lack of leadership.

We'll see. The DC hire is going to be interesting.
 
There's a part of me that thinks that the reason we have sprinted to sign a DC is because we have Quinn. That is, unless we get someone who blows Quinn away and who he believes would be equal or better than him, he sees no point in settling. Worst comes to worst, he knows he's our answer at DC... and he's a pretty good one at that. Frankly, I've always preferred having my fate in my hands anyway. If Quinn does believe his seat is heating up then he very will may lean towards taking the reins unless he loves the alternative.

Mind you, I'm firmly in the conjecture universe as the Front Office is doing a good job of not leaking.
 
Conn I think you're probably more down on Quinn than I am. I wasn't a huge fan of the hire. But I also think I was more generally positive about it than most. And again, if you're going to hold Quinn accountable for 2025, you have to give him credit for 2024. Both of those seasons happened, and it would be unfair to just grade one and hand wave the other to luck.

I really have no idea what is going to happen next year. And frankly, I think a lot of it, as I posted above somewhere (assuming it wasn't wiped out), is outside of Quinn's control.

- Peters has to get the roster with more talent and speed, specifically on defense everywhere and skill positions on offense.
- Daniels has to revert to 2024 form. We know he has it in him. We've seen it. And it wasn't like Griffin. JD5 was able to read the field and make accurate throws from the pocket in addition to scrambling and making plays off schedule. Griffin could barely operate in the pocket, he was basically used as a dual threat QB with a ridiculously good Shanahan style stretch-zone run scheme. So those comparisons are not apt. Daniels CAN do it. He just has to actually do it again.
- They can't have as many injuries.

Those are things outside of Quinn's control, to a large part.

What he needs to focus on is filling out the coaching staff and getting the team prepared. Especially early in the season.

It is disappointing Quinn hasn't been able to upgrade the staff given his reputation in the league.

But man, things change quickly. a year ago at this time, it would have been hard to predict this unless you predict doom in gloom for everything and happen to be right from time to time...
 
It is disappointing Quinn hasn't been able to upgrade the staff given his reputation in the league.
Specifically, I get this point. But Campbell has hired one dud as OC, with a very middling hire this time in Peltzer, but he's touted as a great leader because...Johnson went back? Was he on anyone else's radar? There are SO many open positions, the talent pool feels diluted right now, especially on the offensive side of the ball. I think we were caught off guard as to the number of open positions.

We'll see how it goes. I find it interesting how Quinn gets skewered here when he's facing the same issue a number of organizations are facing.
 
But this team was near the bottom of the league standings in defense all year and we basically had all of that time from 3-8 when we were essentially out of contention to consider strategies for upgrading the coaching staff and replacing Whitt.

That's two plus months.

So, I expected Quinn and Peters to come together and tease out candidates that they thought could succeed here but also be realistic about which candidates WERE LIKELY to come here if offered a contract.

A number of our interviews to this point were for guys that had a small percentage shot of coming to Washington with a head coach on the hot seat in Year 3.

That type of situation is going to interest two types of coaches - younger assistants who may have talent but have not yet been fully recognized for their abilities with a step up to DC and want that shot OR veteran retreads that don't likely stack up as top candidates for the top jobs because of middling results at their last stop.
 

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