The Gruden Files - Year Two

[stevenaa]

And Furthermore, he's the freaking head coach. He should be deciding who plays. If he comes in and finds his perception of RG was completely wrong, and doesn't have faith in him, bench his ass. Oh yeah. He did. Which is what any competent head coach should do. What any leader should do. Make the decisions he believes gives his team the best chance to win. RG was broke before Gruden got here.

 

[SilentThreat]

And again we come back to the B.S. aspect of it. Gruden has been telling us right up until the concussion that Griffin was improving significantly and was his starter. Suddenly in one game that changed...or he was BS'ing all along, or worse yet he's wishy washy and keeps changing his mind.

I can't dispute that he's said things and seemingly done others. The root of that, and the purpose behind it is anyone's judgement. Chalk it up to B.S., coach speak, flat out lying, or some variation of whatever each of us thinks it happens to be. I personally am not ready to say he 'NEEDS' to be fired. I also will say that he could be the worst coach we've had, but things have changed in the last 12 months. We have a younger, more talented team NOW then we did a year ago, and we're going into the season with a starting QB that a very large group of people, who know a hell of a lot more about football then I do, think is the better option. I'm not trying to split hairs with ya CT, I hope that's not whats coming across. In fact I'll continue to be vocal about the fact that I've always wanted Griff to be successful as our starter. Right now, I'm hoping Cousins is successful and Gruden is the one making the call. If Gruden get's dismissed... I'll be rooting for the next guy they bring in. I've said that I PERSONALLY don't think Griff has it, and that keeping him here is a major mistake because of all the other fluff that comes along with it. I'd love to see Griffin get another shot, come back out and light things up... I just don't think that's possible.

 

[LKB]

I still think we should fire him because he sounds like a Jon Gruden impersonator.

I'm also not sure any of this nonsense matters.

Last year, we were a shit organization with terrible players. This year, we are a shit organization with slightly better players hopefully. He could do a masterful coaching job and go 8-8.

I think he goes 6-10 and gets canned for, I'm guessing, some assistant with ties to San Fran or Seattle.

 

[CounterTrey]

Or, as has been stated numerous times, maybe he was doing everything he could to build RG's confidence and relieve some pressure so he'd go out and work on improving without looking over his shoulder. Do you want him to be truthful if he things RG is sucking, like he was truthful last year, or should be build him up like everyone who was pissed at his comments last year said he should be doing. You can't have it both ways. He either builds the player up in public or he tells the truth. It also prevented a lot of media hysteria. It may well be that the players were operating under an open competition while the public was fed what it was fed to keep the noise down.

So he was lying. Nope I'd rather he say nothing at all ala either Belichick or if you don't like that style, Gibbs. Like I said before lying hurts your credibility and leads to outside distractions from fans and media. It's playing the short game with no eye for the long and when it backfires it's ugly.

And Furthermore, he's the freaking head coach. He should be deciding who plays. If he comes in and finds his perception of RG was completely wrong, and doesn't have faith in him, bench his ass. Oh yeah. He did. Which is what any competent head coach should do. What any leader should do. Make the decisions he believes gives his team the best chance to win. RG was broke before Gruden got here.

If he finds in one half with a backup Oline that he was wrong about seemingly months of development and "improvement" (according to his own words) then he's a CRAPPY freakin head coach. If his perception/evaluation was that off then he is incompetent both as a coach and as a leader. The problem is he makes crappy decisions or has thus far.

 

[stevenaa]

I don't know. 6-10 I think get's him another year. Unless there's a lot of other factors, like really poor coaching screw ups and the like. If we're just outplayed at a talent level, I think he gets year three.

 

[Ax]

Or, as has been stated numerous times, maybe he was doing everything he could to build RG's confidence and relieve some pressure so he'd go out and work on improving without looking over his shoulder. Do you want him to be truthful if he things RG is sucking, like he was truthful last year, or should be build him up like everyone who was pissed at his comments last year said he should be doing. You can't have it both ways. He either builds the player up in public or he tells the truth. It also prevented a lot of media hysteria. It may well be that the players were operating under an open competition while the public was fed what it was fed to keep the noise down.

I think this is exactly what happened. And don't have any problem with the team feeding false/misleading information to the media, or the fans. So long as they improve the gameday product.

Makes perfect sense to do everything possible to give Robert the confidence to succeed. While simultaneously providing Kirk, Colt, or whoever a 100% pressure free environment to further hone their abilities in this offense, should Robert not get it done. Coach has to go with what he believes. It's his ass on the line. I hope he's right. And, like you say, I believe the players knew what was happening, because they were told. And, to everyone's credit, it wasn't leaked.

I still believe Robert is the most gifted of the 3. But I also know I'm not privy to everything the coaches are. And, at the end of the day, being a proud Redskins homer, I don't really care who the QB is, I want them to succeed. I hope that Robert will continue to work on his craft, and be ready when called upon. And if he is called upon, here, he deserves every fan of this team to pull for him to succeed, as well.

HTTR!!!

 

[stevenaa]

So he was lying. Nope I'd rather he say nothing at all ala either Belichick or if you don't like that style, Gibbs. Like I said before lying hurts your credibility and leads to outside distractions from fans and media. It's playing the short game with no eye for the long and when it backfires it's ugly.

If he finds in one half with a backup Oline that he was wrong about seemingly months of development and "improvement" (according to his own words) then he's a CRAPPY freakin head coach. If his perception/evaluation was that off then he is incompetent both as a coach and as a leader. The problem is he makes crappy decisions or has thus far.

Funny thing is, every time I ever hear players form any team, past and present, asked about media and fan fueled distractions, they say it's a non issue to the team. They are in their own world. The only one's distracted are the fans and media.

That you think he made a decision based on 1/2 of a game behind a backup line shows your bias. He's worked with RG all offseason, and through 2 game situations. If you think the only reason Gruden went to Kirk is because of that game, it's only because it fits your narrative. Your discounting all of the offseason and preseason work. Your discounting the improvement and play of Kirk. Your discounting many other factors we're not privy too.

 

[CounterTrey]

Oh he's our coach and I'm not going to spend all season pounding my fists about. I certainly won't bring down every thread that pops up with his name in it like we've all seen happen in the past. But I am generally patient and pretty loyal as a fan. I'm certainly not knee jerk with these types of things. Of course I could be proven wrong but at this stage I'm pretty confident in my assessment of this guy's train wreck tenure in D.C. He's been in over his head since day one. He looks to me like another guy whose better role is probably as a coordinator. We'll see, but he's got a lot of work to do to erase the crapfest parade of epic screw ups I've watched the last year.

 

[CounterTrey]

Funny thing is, every time I ever hear players form any team, past and present, asked about media and fan fueled distractions, they say it's a non issue to the team. They are in their own world. The only one's distracted are the fans and media.

That you think he made a decision based on 1/2 of a game behind a backup line shows your bias. He's worked with RG all offseason, and through 2 game situations. If you think the only reason Gruden went to Kirk is because of that game, it's only because it fits your narrative. Your discounting all of the offseason and preseason work. Your discounting the improvement and play of Kirk. Your discounting many other factors we're not privy too.

No I'm not at all. I'm going by the fact that he was still telling us Robert was doing well and good to go right up to that game. If he had enough doubt to demote him to 3rd string then bullshitting us with nonsense about Robert doing well was bush league and stupid. Just give a non answer or a canned one like "We will continue to evaluate all of the quarterbacks all pre-season and that's all I have to say on that. Next question." Belichick does it daily and is lauded for it. And I've heard that time and time and time again from athletes and I have yet to buy it. That's THEIR spin to avoid further controversy or questions on the topic. But I will never buy that a player's name being bandied about in the public isn't a distraction to these athletes. They're great athletes not superhuman emotionally.

 

[LKB]

I don't know. 6-10 I think get's him another year. Unless there's a lot of other factors, like really poor coaching screw ups and the like. If we're just outplayed at a talent level, I think he gets year three.

I'm operating under the assumption that Scot is a normal GM who will eventually want his "own coach" and there is no better time to do that than after a guy goes 9-23.

 

[stevenaa]

No I'm not at all. I'm going by the fact that he was still telling us Robert was doing well and good to go right up to that game. If he had enough doubt to demote him to 3rd string then bullshitting us with nonsense about Robert doing well was bush league and stupid. Just give a non answer or a canned one like "We will continue to evaluate all of the quarterbacks all pre-season and that's all I have to say on that. Next question." Belichick does it daily and is lauded for it. And I've heard that time and time and time again from athletes and I have yet to buy it. That's THEIR spin to avoid further controversy or questions on the topic. But I will never buy that a player's name being bandied about in the public isn't a distraction to these athletes. They're great athletes not superhuman emotionally.

I agree with your take on how it should be handled, however we are not the patriots. That answer works because controversy about football operations does not perpetually surround that team. If Gruden goes that route, it just fuels an endless media storm. The offseason was pretty quiet until RG pops off with his "best QB in the league" statement. We all understood what he was trying to say, but it's just another glaring example of what the media is about in regards to the 'Skins. All brought on by losing and ineptitude, and Snyder pissing off the media. Winning cures all of this. When your winning it's easy to tell the media to pound sand. When you're not feeding the lion, it eventually starves to death. If Gruden proves to be a bumbling failure this year, he'll have had a chance and McCl can go get his own guy.

 

[LKB]

Guys, guys, guys.....

It's entirely possible that Gruden and RGIII both are terrible at their jobs.

See....everyone wins.

 

[micks113]

"Fan62
quote:
1) we all know Gruden was hired to develop RGIII

You are making this up Dr. spinfan"

What planet are you living on? I understand that your mindset is that anyone who disagrees with you, by your own posts, is clueless....but this position clearly leads me to wonder whether or not experimental stages of your youth are suddenly manifesting as shadow synapses connecting to shape electrical paths never envisioned by your creator.

Believe as you chose. I know what one of the primary issues was at the time; I know what we were all talking about; there are signatures on this very website that reprise Grunden's promises of the moment. but.....Micks.....you da man!

didn't mean to hurt your feelings fan. I wasn't calling you a liar, I know you are entitled to your opinion that is manifested in your beliefs in your own make believe world. I know you believe what you say is true. Just make an effort to stop talking in code so folks can understand what your trying to say. We know you fired Gruden, so move on to your next target.

edit; forgot to add I have a make believe world as we all do. why else can Redskins fans get up for game one after a disaster of a previous season? we do it all the time which defies the most logic of all.

 

[Om]

I'm operating under the assumption that Scot is a normal GM who will eventually want his "own coach" and there is no better time to do that than after a guy goes 9-23.

This is entirely possible--maybe even likely.

Strong GM's have a vision for the kind of team they want to build. In this case, as Scot said from day one, our GM wants a big, bad, tough, no-nonsense, own-the-LOS, run-first team built to punch you in the mouth and kick you in the ass, win or lose. Not unlike the 49ers and Seahawks teams he was part of ... or, interestingly enough, the early Gibbs teams.

To fulfill that vision said strong GM pics not only the players to make it happen, but the head coach. Whether Gruden is or can become that coach is very much an open question at this point. His "rep" so far in his career, fairly or not, is more as passing-offense guy---but then so was Gibbs' when he came here from San Diego and through the first five games of his career.

Scot will be evaluating Gruden this year every bit as closely as we are, and I have zero doubt that if he decides Jay isn't his guy, we'll be looking at a new head coach in 2016. Difference is, for the first time since Beathard hired Gibbs 35 years ago, we'll know that the guy selecting the new head coach has a proven track record finding player talent, and is actually selecting a head coach to match up with and maximize said talent into a coherent philosophy.

On a Redskins team. Be still my heart.

 

[TomE]

Hopefully this thread will continue throughout the season when we actually have 2nd year performance benchmarks to add to the file.

I think all that have had their abundant say and passed 'final judgement' on the guy, good or bad, are premature.

I am still firmly entrenched in 'wait and see' mode as the season plays out, don't see any reason yet to be otherwise.

Maybe parameters that are a little bit more definitive and observable on the field should be enumerated.

What does he need to do to solidify his position?

'Obviously' winning, being competitive in loses, decent clock management, good adjustments on both sides of the ball, incremental improvements over time, developing talent and the like.

Is how he handles stuff outside the arena to be considered as well? Does he have to be the great orator brilliantly prepared for any and all media inquiries and flare ups? Or is it more important that he keep his team ready and be 'less than truthful' openly to protect the sanctity of the locker room.

I frankly don't know the answers yet, not sure if definitive conclusion can even be made at years end. That's the beauty of sport, what appears to be is not always what is. Games need to be played and performances evaluated all within the framework of opponents trying their best to make sure you don't succeed.

Our satisfaction will come from our guys being a little better than the opponent or at least heading in that direction.

Admittedly, last year did little to give us a sense of that bearing but this year should.

 

[fansince62]

didn't mean to hurt your feelings fan. I wasn't calling you a liar, I know you are entitled to your opinion that is manifested in your beliefs in your own make believe world. I know you believe what you say is true. Just make an effort to stop talking in code so folks can understand what your trying to say. We know you fired Gruden, so move on to your next target.

edit; forgot to add I have a make believe world as we all do. why else can Redskins fans get up for game one after a disaster of a previous season? we do it all the time which defies the most logic of all.

to hurt feelings one has to be taken seriously. nope....I simply choose to respond from time to time to the outliers who fall on the part of the curve that approaches the origin. you know...the part of the class that makes the upper half possible!!!

Micks...you da man!

 

[Go Deep]

I'm embarrassed that i'm on record defending this guy. If they fired Gruden Monday and named Callahan HC i wouldn't have one problem with it.

-The 1st INT is on stupid play-calling. 3rd and 18 on our own 12 and he decides he's going to throw downfield?

-The 3rd and 5 on their 22 in the 2nd half and we get a delay of game instead of calling TO, then the Benny Hill show ensued and we end up at midfield punting the ball.

-We have a 3rd and 12 at their 44 yd line and we throw a bubble screen to Crowder. At the worst if Cousins throws a INT there they end up with the ball on their 30 something yard line.

-We call TO on 4th and 7 at the end of the game. Forget that we needed the TO and good coaches have a play for that situation and will force the D to take a TO instead.

We call a TO and have plenty of time to go over all the if's and's and but's and have plenty of time to get to the LOS and get a read on the D. Instead, we go out their like robots on auto pilot with tunnel vision and just snap the ball and it was clearly obvious before the snap that our QB and Wr's weren't on the same page and wasn't aware of the blitz.

Bye the way...WTF was that play? It looked like a 4 man go route? I think Roberts may have ran a comeback on the right side and the other 3 just ran a go/seam? Seriously, not 1 crossing route on a 4th and 7? I know that he said Reed was suppose to cut across, but he wasn't even aware they were blitzing and it wasn't his fault. We had plenty of time to get to the line and cadence to get the D to show their hand and instead we just line up and hike the damn ball. Either way it was a piss poor play call and even worse pre-snap execution.

-Then they run a play and there is 2 min's and 11 or 10 seconds on the clock. If we call a TO there it's 2nd down and long and likely another run. We call another TO before the 2 min warning and they have a 3rd down and if we get the stop we get a TO with the 2 min warning. It made no sense to let that time run. We're only getting 1 chance either way to get the ball back.

I give him credit for the general gameplan to run the ball and take pressure off Cousins, but everything else was ridiculous. I mean it was beyond bad and he's clearly in over his head.

Trust me, players are going to see this when they re-watch the game. If he doesn't go before the team and admit to some of these mistakes it won't be long at all till they give up on this guy.

 

[Rymanofthenorth]

see heres the problem failing because you got left a dearth of talent by the last guy and need to do a roster rebuild is forgivable, failing because you kept the worst DC in modern history and couldnt coach a qb who we paid 3 first rounders and a second for? thats something else entirely

 

[Ax]

Progress Report:
Game 1, of first quarter, of year 2.

First off, it's only one game. And even though it looked a lot like LAST year, it's not fair to judge THIS year, of off one game.

But for this one game, I give him a D+.

Mainly because it DID look like last year.
No obvious adjustments to Miami's half time adjustments. Shut out in the second half.
The offense, with "his guy" only put up 10 points. Unacceptable, regardless of QB. Any day you only surrender 17 points, at home, you should win.
Still too many penalties. Unable to adjust to losing one offensive starter.
He didn't look "lost", but he didn't exactly inspire confidence either.

 

[TomE]

I agree, penalties tore the crap out of the team.
Don't recall exactly who the offensive penalties were on but I suspect that most were probably first time starters and in bone head areas away from the play. Second game I expect some settling down.

Adjustments, most of the time I have no idea what they are so can't lay claim one way or another. I do recall a few stuffs after the half in our run game but further along we started picking up some more, is that a real time adjustment? They started hitting mid range against our secondary, what adjustments do we suggest they make on that, more blitz calls?

Kirk.... first pick, as I recall, was on a broken play, when he threw the ball there were two of our guys in the area, the defender was behind the second player and broke on the ball to int. I suspect that the defender was 'hidden' from view and Kirk probably dropped a load as soon as he threw and saw. Second pick, a toss up, maybe shouldn't have been but Garcon had equal chance at the ball, just didn't happen.

Play calling in my mind is fairly simple- with proper execution and it works, good call, if it doesn't work, bad call. Too many things didn't work, so too many bad calls. I'll let our local experts debate what calls should have supplanted the bad ones.

Specials... tough day for the guys, too much adrenaline, too much whatever but a missed FG and a return TD sucked, this one needs to get fixed the most IMHO.

I didn't think Miami was head and shoulders above our team, more composed at the end perhaps and a few more developed talents showing but they've had a little more time over the past year or so to get it together.