The first Jayden Daniels Super Bowl window has shut. Hard.

[Boone]

Deebo and Ertz lead the team with drops in 2025. When Deebo is 'on' he is impressive, but he's been very very inconsistent imho. To be fair, he's getting much more defensive attention than he would if we had a more talented WR corps. He would make a dynamic #3 but I think the problem is he is at best a #2 right now and has often been the #1 due to McLaurin's injuries. He's not that guy anymore.

 

[DWinzit]

If you just zero in on Noah Brown as the Z. Uninspring to say the least. A dude like that probably doesn't even makes the Bears team let alone be counted on as your #2 starter. And the dude is never healthy. Wasn't even healthy during the off season. But somehow they thought it would work?

So Peters clearly thought Chris Moore, Michael Gallup and KJ Obsorn would be the next Dyami Brown, Crowder, Zaccheus. the thing is they all had lousy camps. Moore was good in the minicamp but had a bad training camp.

So as Nicki fdrom the Atlhletic said what was stunning is you can see the struggles in camp from this offense. And it was further seen in the joint practice. And they stunk in the preseason games, too.

And the answer for that was nothing. Nada.

No Deebo alone doesn't offset not having a legit healthy Z Wr and having no depth at outside WR. This coming from maybe Deebo's biggest fan here. As Nicki said and I agree they were worse at WR than last year,

Good post. I thought the players they brought in to compete was a decent idea. You never know who of them could have become a gem, they all had a decent resume.

The issue was none of them showed much of anything creating a roster black-hole that was ignored. And that void bit us in the ass.

I am hoping AP brings in a lot more of these type younger players to compete for roster spots at all positions. Burks and Jackson are of these type players brought in later and give great optimist for next year if they stick around.

 

[skinsinparadise]

Deebo and Ertz lead the team with drops in 2025. When Deebo is 'on' he is impressive, but he's been very very inconsistent imho. He would make a dynamic #3 but I think the problem is he is at best a #2 right now and has often been the #1 due to McLaurin's injuries. He's not that guy anymore.

Deebo and Ertz were the only WRs-TEs to play almost the full season. So I'd think they'd have to lead the team in drops. But agree they've had some inopportune drops. Deebo always had the rep for some drops here and there, so nothing wild with him. But Ertz's drops surprised me albiet he was still mostly good.

Deebo with 6.3 YAC, 6th in the league, so not the typical best in the league but still very good. To your point he was thrust into the #1 role and wasn't that in SF either. He's sort of a gadget guy. High end gadget guy but not a traditional WR.

Deebo is great to have if you got two WRs threatening defenses down the field and he can kill you underneath.

Also I think the blocking has evolved over time and I think that's helping him. Look at the hole here created by Conerly and Biadaz for his big run last game.

 

[DWinzit]

^Kliff continuing to call the 1 yard WR screens to Deebo when he was the #1 receiver didn't help his YAC numbers either.

 

[Boone]

Deebo is great to have if you got two WRs threatening defenses down the field and he can kill you underneath.

This is my primary point.

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

If you just zero in on Noah Brown as the Z. Uninspring to say the least. A dude like that probably doesn't even makes the Bears team let alone be counted on as your #2 starter. And the dude is never healthy. Wasn't even healthy during the off season. But somehow they thought it would work?

So Peters clearly thought Chris Moore, Michael Gallup and KJ Obsorn would be the next Dyami Brown, Crowder, Zaccheus. He was wrong. Is that unforgivable? No. the thing is they all had lousy camps. Moore was good in the minicamp but had a bad training camp. What's unforgivable to me is they just let the mistake ride.

So as Nicki from the Atlhletic said what was stunning is you can see the struggles in camp from this offense. And it was further seen in the joint practice. And they stunk in the preseason games, too.

And the answer for that was nothing. Nada.

No Deebo alone doesn't offset not having a legit healthy Z Wr and having no depth at outside WR. This coming from maybe Deebo's biggest fan here. As Nicki said and I agree they were worse at WR than last year.

I don't agree with you on much of your micro move by move negative assesment about Peters -- to me some of it is very wild. But what's not wild to me is how little Peters did to help Jayden as to the supporting cast. As to the O line, I've been somewhat leading the chorus on the point including to you so I don't need to be convinced or spit back some of the same points I've made on the subject. I've applauded Peters for it. A for O line. F for WR.

I'm a bit confused by this post. Our disagreements have come when I was critical of AP and you defending him, mostly his drafts. Yet here is a post being critical of Peters as you quote me somewhat defending him. It's as if we've switched roles. LOL.

To be clear I will never come off the position that he has drafted poorly and did poorly in free agency and with the Lattimore trade until proven otherwise. But I do believe he helped Jayden with the examples I posted. There was a lot invested in the offense this offseason.

Obviously the WR room was really weak, like me he thought someone from that vet group would step up and at least be serviceable. But by the preseason games what options were left for him? Did we really want him to trade yet more draft capital for someone's WR5?

 

[skinsinparadise]

Good post. I thought the players they brought in to compete was a decent idea. You never know who of them could have become a gem, they all had a decent resume.

The issue was none of them showed much of anything creating a roster black-hole that was ignored. And that void bit us in the ass.

I am hoping AP brings in a lot more of these type younger players to compete for roster spots at all positions. Burks and Jackson are of these type players brought in later and give great optimist for next year if they stick around.

As much as I trashed the depth. I actually think now its good, if they bring Burks back.

I know saying McCaffrey was developing is an unpopular view with the Peters haters but if you get past that, he had one of the highest PFF grades as a returner, is a very good blocker, and seemed to be coming on enough as a WR where I can dig him as a backup. He was lol my favorite backup over time last season. Can he can play some Z now, where it can be Z and slot.

Lane has flashed enough as a backup slot. Burks seems competent.

But IMO if they don't bring Deebo back they need both a slot WR and a Z. Peters has to think big IMO, like the Bears or Pats capitalize on the window with your young QB.

If Peters operates they way he has the first two years -- he'd do something like let Deebo go, trust the slot to McCaffrey and sign some off the street veteran to back up Burks at Z. That lack of ambition IMO has to stop.

If I had to pick two flaws from Peters is he likes to double down on mistakes to try to vindicate himself -- see Lattimore and the WR situation I explained from last summer. And is too conservative in his overall approach -- he's basically a high character version of Bruce Allen who executes Bruce's approach way better than Bruce ever could. But the approach is similar in that they don't utilize their cap space and mostly bargain bin shop.

If you told me after the end of the 2024 season that in Fa, Peters most amnbitious move would be basically swapping Jonathan Allen's salary for Kinlaw, I'd say you are crazy, they are going for it. But they did almost nothing in FA. Yeah the two trades were ambitious but that was it. New England spent more than three times the money Washington did.

 

[DWinzit]

I'm a bit confused by this post. Our disagreements have come when I was critical of AP and you defending him, mostly his drafts. Yet here is a post being critical of Peters as you quote me somewhat defending him. It's as if we've switched roles. LOL.

To be clear I will never come off the position that he has drafted poorly and did poorly in free agency and with the Lattimore trade until proven otherwise. But I do believe he helped Jayden with the examples I posted. There was a lot invested in the offense this offseason.

Obviously the WR room was really weak, like me he thought someone from that vet group would step up and at least be serviceable. But by the preseason games what options were left for him? Did we really want him to trade yet more draft capital for someone's WR5?

I don't think a trade for another WR was needed. It was evident we needed more WR quality before the season began. When all of the roster reductions were going on there were new available options. Also during that period you can make minor trades where you are just swapping draft selections in a single late round for instance. They made no real attempt period

 

[skinsinparadise]

I'm a bit confused by this post. Our disagreements have come when I was critical of AP and you defending him, mostly his drafts. Yet here is a post being critical of Peters as you quote me somewhat defending him. It's as if we've switched roles. LOL.

To be clear I will never come off the position that he has drafted poorly and did poorly in free agency and with the Lattimore trade until proven otherwise. But I do believe he helped Jayden with the examples I posted. There was a lot invested in the offense this offseason.

Obviously the WR room was really weak, like me he thought someone from that vet group would step up and at least be serviceable. But by the preseason games what options were left for him? Did we really want him to trade yet more draft capital for someone's WR5?

You make my point here as to your criticisms, he did poorly in his drafts AND free agency according to you. And you mention one of his trades. So what's left, 2 good trades? There is not much you like about him. I am not trying to convince you otherwise. I don't care to each their own.

But specifically you thought I was too harsh here on Peters backing Jayden. You are right our roles are reversed on this and I said so. I hit back that I don't think I was, that's it.

I specifically said what else he could have done. It wasn't trade for another WR.

And I've hit Peters plenty. So, lol, its not so much role reversal. But on the aggregate I am clearly higher on Peters than you are, and that's OK.

 

[DWinzit]

As much as I trashed the depth. I actually think now its good, if they bring Burks back.

I know saying McCaffrey was developing is an unpopular view with the Peters haters but if you get past that, he had one of the highest PFF grades as a returner, is a very good blocker, and seemed to be coming on enough as a WR where I can dig him as a backup. He was lol my favorite backup over time last season. Can he can play some Z now, where it can be Z and slot.

Lane has flashed enough as a backup slot. Burks seems competent.

But IMO if they don't bring Deebo back they need both a slot WR and a Z. Peters has to think big IMO, like the Bears or Pats capitalize on the window with your young QB.

I find Burks exciting. Luke, Lane and Burks give us a great competition for the WR4 and WR5 slots. They do need more competition for them and that leaves a couple slots above with Terry. They need to hammer those two. I can see Deebo being one whether that is the best move or not. They can't see him as more than a WR3 if he is brought back. I can see one of the young guys being able to step into the WR3 role later in the year if needed

I do worry about new WR's only because it seems Jayden has a hard time getting a feel for new receivers. Is this a Jayden thing? Is it the receivers? Is it the offensive coaching? I don't know but I will say again, it is strange that the 3 receivers draft Lane, Luke and Sinnott have all not been very productive. (I know all the Luke is learning the position, blah blah WR excuses posted by many over the year but it is a real thing)

 

[skinsinparadise]

I find Burks exciting. Luke, Lane and Burks give us a great competition for the WR4 and WR5 slots. They do need more competition for them and that leaves a couple slots above with Terry. They need to hammer those two. I can see Deebo being one whether that is the best move or not. They can't see him as more than a WR3 if he is brought back. I can see one of the young guys being able to step into the WR3 role later in the year if needed

I do worry about new WR's only because it seems Jayden has a hard time getting a feel for new receivers. Is this a Jayden thing? Is it the receivers? Is it the offensive coaching? I don't know but I will say again, it is strange that the 3 receivers draft Lane, Luke and Sinnott have all not been very productive. (I know all the Luke is learning the position, blah blah WR excuses posted by many over the year but it is a real thing)

I don't think its a Jayden thing. I recall Burrow who worked forever with Jamar Chase said the year Chase held out screwed up their chemistry early that season because they didn't have reps together. Brady said that he need those preseason games to develop chemistry with the WRs among other things.

Especially WRs who don't run the right routes and drop the ball -- nothing you can do about it.

 

[clskinsfan]

he had one of the highest PFF grades

SIP I know you are big on PFF and quote them a lot. I am not big on them. And dont consider their takes any better than anyone elses. They have developed a good following and are profiting well on it. And good for them. But some of their rankings leave me shaking my head like what are they actually seeing?

 

[clskinsfan]

I recall Burrow who worked forever with Jamar Chase said the year Chase held out screwed up their chemistry

I hope Peters and the rest of the front office learned a lesson from Terry's holdout. Hold your players to the contract they signed or trade them. That was Gibbs way. He would never allow a disgruntled player to stay here. And many got shipped because of it.

 

[skinsinparadise]

SIP I know you are big on PFF and quote them a lot. I am not big on them. And dont consider their takes any better than anyone elses. They have developed a good following and are profiting well on it. And good for them. But some of their rankings leave me shaking my head like what are they actually seeing?

I don't think I am big on them or down on them. There was one person on ES who lol is here too who would trash them and I think they took it too far, and another who did the opposite who would trust them like they are gospel who thought I minimized PFF too much.

To me PFF is about context. If you can provide your own context to their grades, much of their work is interesting, especially as for players in the draft.

If you take their grades literally and don't factor context then it can be abused and mislead you.

Heck if you watch some of their draft guys, they explain why even they do not factor their own PFF grades as the be all and end all. Their highest touted prospects are not always their highest graded players. For example you don't get graded up or down based on your opponent. So you can play against Aaron Donald or Ziggy Hood and you won't be graded on a curve, its purely about how you played and context doesn't matter. So if you don't think about that stuff while examining grades especially for draft prospects it will lead you astray.

But for example if they grade said player high or low on specific games when I get to watch those games, I don't come out of them thinking PFF is crazy where they said he was great against Michigan but he sucked or said was terrible against Alabama but was excellent. Their grades mesh pretty well to performance.

They've also been harsh graders though for some players that drove fans crazy like for Daron Payne. I've heard a PFF guy justify the lukewarm scores for Payne through most of his career for having a hot and cold motor. So they don't just grade the splash plays and ignore the bad ones. Something that Suter who does film review for Sheehan has echoed.

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

You make my point here as to your criticisms, he did poorly in his drafts AND free agency according to you. And you mention one of his trades. So what's left, 2 good trades? There is not much you like about him. I am not trying to convince you otherwise. I don't care to each their own.

But specifically you thought I was too harsh here on Peters backing Jayden. You are right our roles are reversed on this and I said so. I hit back that I don't think I was, that's it.

I specifically said what else he could have done. It wasn't trade for another WR.

And I've hit Peters plenty. So, lol, its not so much role reversal. But on the aggregate I am clearly higher on Peters than you are, and that's OK.

After reading your posts again I believe your position is they could have picked up WR depth by signing players released by other teams at the end of camp when they saw the problem. Now I don't have that list but I'm going to assume those players really weren't going to make much of a difference anyway. We've already seen what end of the roster WRs look like.

 

[skinsinparadise]

After reading your posts again I believe your position is they could have picked up WR depth by signing players released by other teams at the end of camp when they saw the problem. Now I don't have that list but I'm going to assume those players really weren't going to make much of a difference anyway. We've already seen what end of the roster WRs look like.

Keenan Allen would be a case in point. And I used him as an example. Signed in August. Veteran WR who is competent. lol, even Crowder. I get that there aren't a ton of possibilties but they tried nothing. I can even take them trying to sign this or that guy lets say like Skyy Moore and that player failing. Show a sense of urgency sink or swim.

Keep in mind, I think they blew it big time well before not trying to recover from their mistake in the summer. But the summer to me is the kicker. It's not the main point.

the main point is Noah Brown hasn't been healthy throughout his career and wasn't healthy in this off season either. Yet they oddly bet against the odds and expected some Christmas miracle to happen with Noah and heck if that doesn't work Chris Moore is a legit WR and lets lol win ourselves a SB.

As you know I like and don't like some of Peters' moves. I like more of what he's done than you do. I think for the most part in FA for example, he has many more hits than misses. I know you disagree. But to me its not even close but he needs to shoot higher. But where he did fail in FA is signing scrub Wrs off the streets and expecting to be successful anyway.

And while I agree or disagree with Peters' moves I can follow at least the logic on almost everything. Except for this. The only logical conclusions I can think of Wr for Peters is either or both: (some drama and hyperbole on my end to make a point)

A. I am "fing" Adam Peters. I am already a legend in my first year at GM. And if you guys think Zaccehus was a fluke. Wait to you see me with Gallup, Moore and Osborn. Suckers go use your first or 2nd round pick on WRs, Pats go spend 20 million on Diggs, ha, the joke is on you because no one makes lemonade out of lemons like as my boss calls me Adam "fng" Peters.

B. We got Jayden Daniels and you don't! For example, Bears keep signing weapons and drafting them high and go get your depth and ha you can even grab our depth WR -- but it doesn't matter how many weapons you add, Caleb will do Caleb -- and Jayden is Jayden and he doesn't need a first round WR or TE or high 2nd round WR -- we will grab dudes released by other teams, use midround picks as to WRs, and be even better than you! We will turn the NFL's trash into treasure, just you watch!

 

[clskinsfan]

Maye 19-21 256 yards and 5 TD's today......

 

[ntotoro]

Too bad he has such lousy mechanics...

(That was sarcasm)

 

[Dlts20]

I don't believe it has at all

 

[Conn]

Imagine us even being competitive in a game where Daniels threw for less than 5 yards in a half. Eagles did it 3 times this year, and won all 3 games. That’s how far apart these rosters are.