The first Jayden Daniels Super Bowl window has shut. Hard.

[Riggo44]

but I simply can’t subscribe to the idea that with everything that has happened to this point, that blowing out a staff and starting it all over the best plan for the success of the team.

But Procus, what about Mike Vrabel?!

(who isn't doing anything more than Quinn and Daniels did last year...only against an even easier schedule)

 

[Chris]

Three of this year’s darling teams and darling QBs have faced the 3 easiest schedules so far this season based on strength of schedule.

New England- .376 (historically bad?)
Denver- .439
Chicago- .446

(Not dissimilar to another team from last season that is currently meeting in Ashburn.)

 

[Primus Porcus]

"A leader of men" is what people used to say about Ron Rivera. It's not good enough.

What we really need is someone smarter than the average bear. Someone forward-thinking, who realizes that the longer term goals of the team, and health of the franchise QB, are 100x more important than trying to win a few meaningless games in an attempt to save his job.

Shanahan made that same mistake, and chose himself over what was best for the future of the team.

No more washed up losers. No Pete Carrol. No Mike Tomlin, and no Todd Bowles. We need an under 50, rising star in the league.

What makes you think Quinn playing Jayden in a lost game had anything to do with 'saving his job.' That's a massive assumption. I don't think he's concerned at all about losing his job right now. He's clearly identified a change that was needed on the defensive side of the ball and taken it over. Whitt is likely the only terminated coach this offseason, and we will see what direction they take there. IF Kingsbury ends up departing for a HC job, then we will see what happens there, but i'd imagine it's not going to be an overhaul of the staff.

Nothing has happened to lead us to believe that Quinn's job is unsafe, so again, playing Jayden was not an act of desperation. Reps and plays matter. Jayden's injury on his NON THROWING arm was a freak accident where someone who weights 200+ LBs landed on it and knocked it out of place. Jayden continuing to get first team reps, play live defenses, identify coverages, read defensive backs, change protections, identify matchups, and grow overall as a QB is more valuable NOW than it will be in 5 years. Players talk about Quinn a lot differently than they did about Rivera. Rivera was also the defacto GM and essentially Team President. Quinn is the HC who has a set GM in place to manage those long term goals. Quinn needs to have the mentality, and extend that mentality, to the players that your goal is to win every play no matter what.

Just because the last guy wasn't good at his job, doesn't mean this guy isn't. We can't say that 'every leader of men is a failure' just because one is. If that's the case then you might as well never do anything because there are always examples of successes and failures in every aspect of everything. To act like one coaching style can never work because Ron Rivera had the same coaching style is like saying you can never throw the football because it got intercepted one time. There is no single, clear equation on what it takes to win. There are so many variables and factors, like cooking. So many ingredients that you have to properly work in order to bring a dish together. All of those same ingredients, done incorrectly, could come out tasting like shit. Some recipes work, some don't. Getting the right ingredients, and using them correctly into the right recipe, and then executing that recipe correctly make it happen. I dont know about you, i've eaten some pretty terrible Beef Brisket, but that doesn't mean i'll never try eating it again....

 

[Riggo44]

That's a massive assumption.

"Trust me, bro!" is the only substantiation needed 'round these parts.

 

[Riggotoni]

The biggest difference between Quinn and Rivera is that Quinn isn't picking the roster... something at which that Rivera was singularly horrendous.
It shouldn't be too difficult to pick up a top 10 MLB in free agency. A replacement for Ertz will be much more difficult. Sinnott is looking like a career backup at best.
And we will need to land a top notch edge rusher in the draft.

 

[burgold]

I have to imagine that the DBs coach is on the hot seat. They missed on Forbes potential, Mike has declined under his coaching, and in general the DBs just look lost or at any rate always leave someone WIDE open.

 

[method man]

I have to imagine that the DBs coach is on the hot seat. They missed on Forbes potential, Mike has declined under his coaching, and in general the DBs just look lost or at any rate always leave someone WIDE open.

The secondary coaches are Whitt’s men - one was his former colleague in GB (Simmons) and the other is his former boss’s son (Donatell)

I think odds are likely they are both gone.

 

[Boone]

I have to imagine that the DBs coach is on the hot seat. They missed on Forbes potential, Mike has declined under his coaching, and in general the DBs just look lost or at any rate always leave someone WIDE open.

No one is on or off the hot seat because of anything related to Forbes imho. First of all, he's played a few good games in a very limited role, but I don't think he's starting for anyone or going to the Pro Bowl anytime soon. I think with where he was at the time of his release, basically looking like he absolutely could not play the position at the NFL level and with his confidence completely shattered, I have to believe that would've been the move made by just about any GM in the NFL. I just don't think there is a 'mistake' there to be 'owned' by anyone. But yeah, your overall point - it hasn't been good. As Chris has done a great job highlighting, the trade for Lattimore has been a disaster, and although injuries haven't helped, the secondary has regressed (and that is pretty incredible given how bad it was last year). The DC and secondary coaches have to be looked at.

 

[UK Skins]

Watched the Rams game last night, Forbes was being beaten like a drum. Definitely no loss there.

 

[prodigy]

I think people need to ease up on the rookie contract window concept. sure, it's a great chance to build up a roster while you aren't paying a premium for your qb...but if Jayden is him, smart drafting, prudent extensions for in-house talent, and good FA signings will always keep the window open. in the last 6 or 7 Superbowls, I don't think any of them have been QBs on a rookie contract. it's a myth and you guys are spinning your wheels in a hurry to go nowhere by wanting constant wholesale overhauls. do it right.

 

[Neophyte]

You know how teams often go from last to first in their divisions? By firing their entire staffs. See the Bears.

Or maybe by playing a last place schedule? Just a thought.

 

[SkinsLife]

its funny .. i remember arguing with a bunch of idiots on ES years back that Quinn hire was a clone of Rivera hire. likable def guy thats not particularly good at anything. Now, all the same things are being said about Quinn.
1. well respected around the league
2. leader of men
3. well liked by his team.. oh yeah.. where has that got us??
.... terrible at everything else (talent eval, game planning, coaching hires, rookie development)

Its comically sad how many fans on here want to stand by with this shit coaching staff for 4 years, because they have developed a Stockholm Syndrome like attachment for the sake of general stability and affliction to change... yet again.

 

[skinsinparadise]

There was plenty of euphoria post the 2024 season -- with national talk about how Quinn is an elite culture builder. I posted a long expose on what Quinn did to rebuild the culture and it was a great read from Golong. Peters was mentioned by some as the executive of the year for reshaping a botttom of the league roster to one that came one game from the playoffs in one year. Jayden was the next great QB and compared by some as a future Mahomes. Some were saying this team's resurgence was worthy of a movie. They were the sexy team with the schedulers who gave them a zillion prime time games. On and on.

So some hyperbole from me to make a point -- then we got Peters IMO taking for granted the 2024 WR depth and weakening it -- that along with the injuries to that spot IMO was the #2 reason the season was derailed. You got NE adding weapons like T. Diggs and T. Henderson among others. You got the Bears who already loaded Caleb with weapons his rookie year -- this year add Burden and Loveland with early picks and beef up the O line. All hands on deck for the Bears as for exploiting the rookie contract.

If I had to say one thing many national observors got wrong in 2024 that while they started in that off season by saying the Bears took care of Caleb much more than Washington did for Jayden -- once the narrative turned the other way in favor of Jayden having the better year, they switched and said the opposite that Peters did a better job. But he didn't. the issue with Caleb was coaching not personnel. The Bears needed to upgrade the O line more but they went at it with all hands on deck. Washington did not. And the Bears doubled down on it this year. Washington at best did a wash as for supportng cast for Jayden and weakened their depth.

Look I give credit to Peters reworking the O line and its part of the reason why I have faith in this next season. But the Bears and Pats worked BOTH the O line and passing weapons. I think the Bears and the Patriots actually kicked Peters ass as far as taking care of their franchise QB and chasing their window. Peters IMO was the least all in of those front offices. I find it ironic and apt that their best backup WR last season signed with the Bears.

So I have maybe a contrarian view that Peters sort of arrogantly half assed the off season and didn't even remotely go all in. The "all in" Peters argument is because of three trades that cost them draft picks. But the Lattimore one was a go all in late in the 2024 season, The Tunsil trade happened when Stanley resigned with Baltimore -- they wanted a good LT and there wasn't one in FA. And Deebo was just a rental for a 5th round pick. I judge "all in" by do you spend your cap money aggressively and they don't.

Some agents in the NFL agreed (via Standig)

• “Give them credit for staying focused on rebuilding the roster, but why not be more aggressive with the QB on a rookie deal when you might already be the second-best NFC team? At the very least, they should have filled in some gaps or replaced a few older players. Instead, they have tons of 2026 free agents, meaning in your third year, you're still filling too many holes.”
• “Certainly, the team where a sophomore slump comes to mind.”

Then you got Quinn treating camp as a glorified walk through so the team is rested for the playoffs. While we kept hearing post the 2024 season that edge is their top need. What do they do? They basically swap Allen for Kinlaw. Swap Von Miller for their best pass rusher in 2024, Fowler. Add a cheap FA in Wise and bill him as this be all and end all run stopper even though it wasn't his rep. And that's it. Definitely not a go all in attempt. They swap Chinn for a cheaper journeyman safety. Their solution at CB is to double down on Lattimore for 18 million. And draft Amos -- that's a good pick but they didn't really go to town on anything but O line.

Overall it felt like Peters and Quinn thought they have Mahomes and since he overcame a meh defense last year and can make it work with any WR off the street give me a Chris Moore, Michael Gallup or KJ Osborn and you'll find the next Zaccheus because Jayden doesn't need these monster players that Caleb, etc does to be successful.

Conn mentioned that its possible that Josh Harris doesn't want to spend big money in FA. I don't know but I don't dismiss it. Sheehan keeps bringing it up as a maybe. I hope a reporter asks Peters about it in a press conference because IMO we need to hold Harris' feet to the fire. The Pats spent almost triple what Washington did in FA last year. I get older veterans are cheaper but they need to have the balls to sign more expensive younger free agents.

Then even with all this and a tough schedule, they start 3-2. Then the injuries get out of hand and the season falls apart. But part of my optimism for the future and I'll post on it next is I don't think its rocket science as to how this happened and in turn I think its easy to fix. It's not easy to fix in terms of the typical fan who obsesses on EVERY position becoming strong or ideal depth everywhere -- but that's fantasy. Every team is going to have weaknesses. You can deal with a Will Harris at FS or even a Sainristil at outside CB IMO if you got a big time pass rush as an example.

 

[SkinsLife]

I hope for Harris spending is not an issue.. because after this year he might really be against it.
After 2024
1. Older fans were barely coming back and were still warming up to the new name and team
2. younger fans were just starting to accept the new team and success
Now after 25
1. Oder fans are loosing hope - same old washington
2. younger fans losing excitement and moving on

It will now be even harder to sell seats and merch... means even less cash for Harris. .. and then we become like Bills and Cinci with cheap ass owners who are afraid to spend and doomed towards a decade of mediocrity

 

[skinsinparadise]

I'll start with I think the Stockholm Syndrome or more on point PTSD is with our fan base because of the Dan Snyder years.

We get the hot model all of a sudden going out with us, what a year -- and there were legit reasons for it, we are in shape for once, we look better, we feel like hey this is finally the new reality.

And then the next year, we break our leg, can't work out, gain weight and lol the model won't go out with us anymore.

And it's natural to think this year, the bad luck year is really us because we are used to being the uncool nerds.

But personally, I don't think so. I get the cynicism. Cyncism is about protecting yourself from disappointment so you for example don't ask the model out anymore and tell yourself this isn't me anyway, I'll just recall that one fun year as a fluke. And be bitter again about this reality.

But 2024 truly happened. Jayden IMO is truly a franchise QB. Yeah if you lose your franchise QB for more than half the season. And you only have one serious weapon and they are out for more than half the season. And your main weakness edge gets exposed by losing your top 3 guys the season will go off the rails.

I don't absolve Quinn and Peters I just posted a long post above this one as to where they went wrong. But this isn't a hard fix IMO. The Bears can walk and chew gum at the same time -- upgrade both the O line and passing weapons. So Peters needs two seasons to do it. I am disappointed that he wasn't more aggressive. But at this point he'd have to be a moron to not notice what the Bears and Pats did to help their young franchise QBs -- and would have to be a moron to understand that you can't have a team that's a serious contender with just one scary offensive weapon. Look at Dallas with the 2 stud WRs. Philly. Heck even NY when Nabers is back has better offensive weapons.

Most NFL observors thought this team would go to town at DE actually both in FA and the draft. They did neither. Again Peters I think would have to be a moron to know he can't double down on this.

And if by chance Harris is being conservative with the purse strings he needs to let it go. Going back to my nerd-fan analogy. You can't have the nerd double down and feel like a nerd two years in a row. If that happens they are going to lose belief. Invest in the fans by allowing the team to build a big time roster. And look I don't know if its Peters or Harris putting the breaks on spending but whomever it is, they have to go all in to help their franchise QB.

I still think Quinn is a good coach, I'll trust Peters for now. And yes I still believe in Jayden. I used to death this summer the corny Rocky 3 analogy that it feels like because of arrogance they've lost their edge. What is disappointing about that is they IMO were the walking stereotype of an upstart team due for a sophomore slump. But sticking to the Rocky 3 analogy, you got your ass kicked by Mr. T. Most of it was because of bad luck but some of it was their doing. Now what?

By reputation Quinn, Peters, Daniels are workaholics and competitive as heck. I am willing and excited to see what they do to come back. And I think they will do it as long as Jayden stays healthy.

I don't see a ton of similarity between Quinn and Rivera. Yeah they were D coordinators. Yeah nice guys. But Quinn by reputation is self aware, open to change and works his ass off. Rivera from what I heard at least in Washington didn't work very hard, was stuck in his ways and not an open to change kind of dude.

 

[Chris]

The amount of sheer speculation offered by this/every fanbase without even a modicum of evidence is astounding.

Now Harris is a target?

 

[NoCalSkins]

Perhaps the most disappointing of this season's stumble from grace is that the NFC really doesn't seem to have any teams running away from the pack of contenders. Pretty much every team that is forecast to make the playoffs currently has a reasonable argument for why they might end up in the SB. If last year's Commanders ended up in this season's playoffs I'd be pretty confident in their chances to get to the ship. The highs & lows of fandom....

As far as the "Super bowl window" goes. I think next season is going to be the barometer for what we can expect to see for Jayden's remaining time on his rookie contract, which I assume would include the fifth year extension before the huge contract talks begin. The NFL salary cap era is designed with parity in mind. The great equalizer in most situations is if you can find a QB that is at least Top 10, but hovering in or around Top 5. Going into this offseason there are going to be a lot of variables that make it hard to predict what we should even expect yet and if we consider the first "window" of Jayden's career to be seasons 1-5, I don't think the window is shut at all.

 

[Conn]

The amount of sheer speculation offered by this/every fanbase without even a modicum of evidence is astounding.

Now Harris is a target?

Harris is not a target, but I have posts in my history recently here where I talked about this: AP in a presser this offseason right before FA, seemingly to get the local media to simmer down when they were talking about our abundance of cap space, said that we don’t just pay attention to the salary cap—we also have a “cash cap” that matters.

That stuck with me and I simply said I’d be keeping an eye over the next few years, because we haven’t spent like I thought we would two offseasons in a row with Harris + AP at the helm. Not wanting to overpay for a BS “Dream Team” old Eagles style is one thing. On board with that. But I started to suspect we were being a bit more tight with the guaranteed money we’re willing to put into escrow than the elite owners. And who knows, it could be a short term thing because of the insane cash and equity outlay this large ownership group has put out buying the team, renovating the current stadium, and lobbying people on the new stadium issue (and expects to continue putting out for the new stadium project now).

So it’s just simply that I’m watching that now, and curious about it, and posted about it reminding people of that direct comment from AP. He was very frank and it was right before FA last year, and at that moment I knew we weren’t signing any of the big names people had expected until that very moment. And we didn’t, despite the advantage of coming off of the hot NFCCG season with Daniels as the golden boy. We kept it to mid range and lower signings with the at the time controversial Kinlaw signing as the big dog brought in.

So it’s just something to keep an eye on. I’ve been the one posting about it but I’m still generally high on Harris. It’s a data point to watch as the sample size grows

 

[prodigy]

Harris is not a target, but I have posts in my history recently here where I talked about this: AP in a presser this offseason right before FA, seemingly to get the local media to simmer down when they were talking about our abundance of cap space, said that we don’t just pay attention to the salary cap—we also have a “cash cap” that matters.

That stuck with me and I simply said I’d be keeping an eye over the next few years, because we haven’t spent like I thought we would two offseasons in a row with Harris + AP at the helm. Not wanting to overpay for a BS “Dream Team” old Eagles style is one thing. On board with that. But I started to suspect we were being a bit more tight with the guaranteed money we’re willing to put into escrow than the elite owners. And who knows, it could be a short term thing because of the insane cash and equity outlay this large ownership group has put out buying the team, renovating the current stadium, and lobbying people on the new stadium issue (and expects to continue putting out for the new stadium project now).

So it’s just simply that I’m watching that now, and curious about it, and posted about it reminding people of that direct comment from AP. He was very frank and it was right before FA last year, and at that moment I knew we weren’t signing any of the big names people had expected until that very moment. And we didn’t, despite the advantage of coming off of the hot NFCCG season with Daniels as the golden boy. We kept it to mid range and lower signings with the at the time controversial Kinlaw signing as the big dog brought in.

So it’s just something to keep an eye on. I’ve been the one posting about it but I’m still generally high on Harris. It’s a data point to watch as the sample size grows

I may be incorrect and it's a different ownership group, but based on 76ers (not sure about the devils) I don't think he's shy on spending. it seems like it has to be the right player. my only concern would be if the "right player" is a Joel Embiid, Ben Simmons, or Paul George kind of player.

 

[skinsinparadise]

The amount of sheer speculation offered by this/every fanbase without even a modicum of evidence is astounding.

Now Harris is a target?

He is not really a target for me. But he might become one if they don't spend in FA this season and we find out it's because of him. I'll give credit for Conn for responding to a post I made about Peters spending money. He wondered if Peters has a leash on how much citing Peters saying in a Q and A that he's on a cash budget when it comes to FA.

That typically means you are restricted as to signing bonuses-guaranteed money as to what you dole out because that's the money you have to put upfront and if so that limits your chances to landing the bigger ticket FAs.

Harris has been great -- upgraded the facilities, upgraded the stadium, secured a new stadium in DC - seems like a good guy, etc. I've loved him as an owner.

But if by chance he doesn't want to spend bigger in FA, he needs to get over it. If its true. And its not just Conn on this point. Sheehan keeps bringing it up on his show. He doesn't know if its true but he thinks its possible.

IMO he's been beyond awesome as to investing in this team. And if by chance he's hesitant to do the same in FA he needs to get over it. If its not him and its Peters he needs to get over it, too IMO.

If you are going to have all the cap room what's the point if you go medium with it? I'd be ok with going medium if its a loaded roster but it isn't.

And while I don't think all the praise for Peters after season 1 was misguided -- I do think one key point was misguided and that is that he did more to help Jayden than the other teams did for their young QBs drafted that year. IMO ALL of those teams have better supporting casts than Jayden and by a good margin -- Minny, NE, Atlanta, Chicago. It took NE two years to do it. But overall the thesis that this team did more to help Jayden was basically about Kliff >> the Bears offensive coordinators. Because otherwise IMO the other GMs kicked Peters ass as far as helping their young QBs.

But I do like everything I've read and heard about Peters so I don't think we will have anything close this off season to a round 2 of lets ride with Noah Brown as the Z and if he gets hurt no worries we got Chris Moore. Or lets sway Kinlaw for Allen and D. Wise-J. Martin for Fowler and watch our pass rushing woes be fixed.

Again, some hyperbole on my end to make a point. But I expect Peters is going to attack edge and WR like he did O line next off season. And if he does and Jayden stays healthy I'd expect to be back in the post season.