The Denver Post says Shanahan Appears Headed to Redskins

[Miles Monroe]

im not a fan of shanny..

what did he do without elway?

and we DONT have elway here..

I'll take him over Gruden in a milisecond, because I know Holgrem and Cowher are out of the question for the most part.

 

[beamish]

got zero respect for the newspaper rags in denver, especially the sports columnists.

 

[Sarge]

I'll take him over Gruden in a milisecond, because I know Holgrem and Cowher are out of the question for the most part.

Yep. The danny better get this right, because if Shanny goes soemwhere else the pickin's are slim for big name coaches. Although I would trust Allen to pick a good O-Coordinator for coach if need be

 

[Henry]

im not a fan of shanny..

what did he do without elway?

and we DONT have elway here..

1999: 6-10
2000: 11-5
2001: 8-8
2002: 9-7
2003: 10-6
2004: 10-6
2005: 13-3
2006: 9-7
2007: 7-9
2008: 8-8

10 years. 6 winning seasons. 1 Division Championship. 3 wildcard spots. One playoff win.

Better than what we've been, but not a by a ton.

Of course, he also won two SBs with Elway. I know that seems like nothing, but keep in mind that Elway had been in the league for 12 years without winning a SB before Shanahan took over, so it's not like all a coach had to do was show up and tell Elway to throw the ball around.

I think he's a good coach. Not a great coach.

He wouldn't be my first choice, but I'd take a good-not-great coach and a GM over Snyder's latest experiment-du-jour. And I'd probably take him over Gruden.

 

[Neophyte]

Well, having Terrell Davis run for 2,000 yards and Shannon Sharpe collect 90 catches helped a lot out in Denver

More importantly, Davis had a line that blocked well enough for him to run for 2,000 yards.

He wouldn't be my first choice, but I'd take a good-not-great coach and a GM over Snyder's latest experiment-du-jour. And I'd probably take him over Gruden.

Agreed. I would rather someone completely new. A hungry coordinator who wants to prove himself as a head coach but failing that, I think Shanahan is the best of the retreads. More importantly, I think what he did in Denver best fits with the personnel we already have here so will require less of a rebuild job.

 

[Elephant]

Agreed. I would rather someone completely new. A hungry coordinator who wants to prove himself as a head coach but failing that, I think Shanahan is the best of the retreads. More importantly, I think what he did in Denver best fits with the personnel we already have here so will require less of a rebuild job.

I mentioned something along these lines the other day. I think this team would be best served if they hired an assistant for Allen in the personnel department like DeCosta in Baltimore or Williams in Tampa. Names don't matter to me as much as ability.

Then allow Allen to hire "his" coach, someone young and eager. I have said it a few times, but I'll say it again, I like Brian Shottenheimer. Again, the name doesn't matter as long as it is someone who is young and/or hungry!

Allow Allen and the new HC to work together to assemble a staff of experienced proven offensive and defensive coordinators. I like what Baltimore did. They got a young coach, and gave him 2 proven coordinators. That group took them to the AFC Championship game in their 1st season together.


Whoever the coach is, they have to have a strong personality, no more medium!

 

[Boone]

We're all over the map here

First of all, getting someone 'hungry and new' brings along with it the possibility of total failure. Say we bring in Russ Grimm. Yeah - there would be a certain appeal to that. But there's also the possibility he'd be in way over his head and be just as erratic and ineffective as Jim Zorn has been. Finding a successful head coach in the NFL is a lot like finding a franchise QB. You're as liable to stumble onto one as deliberately find one. Just look at how many 'can't lose' prospects from dominant college football programs have utterly failed as NFL head coaches. And how many 'coordinators of the year' from NFL teams get head coaching gigs, but can't keep them. Lets be serious - no one is going to oppose 'finding the next Joe Gibbs' - the problem is, you've got to find him You all prepared to go through 2 or 3 more Jim Zorns before we strike gold? I don't think so.

I think characterizing Shanahan as a 'retread' is off base frankly. As someone astutely pointed out, there were a lot of years of John Elway - but it took Shanahan to get them a Super Bowl win with him. The guy knows how to coach. A lot of the negatives associated with Shanahan rise from the fact that Denver dumped him. But we all know, sometimes coaches (no matter how good) just run their course with a franchise. I think that was the case with Denver. And I suspect a few years removed from being 'the guy' for an NFL team results in its own kind of hunger. If Shanahan does get the gig, he's going to have something to prove and his reputation will be on the line. In some ways, he'd have more pressure on him than a rookie NFL coach - because the last job he had, he lost, and now has to show that was a mistake. The difference is, unlike our current head coach, a guy like Shanahan knows all about those kinds of pressures and can handle them.

Finally - we're all missing one point. There may be better coaches than Shanahan out there - a few anyway. But they don't want to come to DC, and for good reason. Count me as one who believes we'd be extremely fortunate to get a coach of Shanahan's ability and experience, given who and where the Redskins are, and our current ownership.

 

[Lanky Livingston]

I'm with Neo - I'd actually like to see them bring in the younger Ryan from Cleveland. He definitely has whipped those guys into shape, and anyone who can motivate the BROWNS to play hard has got some fire.

 

[Elephant]

Boone, I can't speak for anyone else, but my argument is not against Mike Shanahan, as much as, another big figure who will come in and because they have had success in the past will expect to assume certain responsibilities. I am not saying he is not a good or qualified coach, but is he a good coach and scout and personnel guy? Look, he had some success without Elway, but regarding the 2 SB's that he won, the team was already assembled.

I am like NEO and Lanky, I have mentioned Ryan in Cleveland as well. But a young coach will have a much better chance of success if he is given all the right parts. Zorn was given Sherm Smith to help him with the offense, not good enough! If he had brought Sherm Lewis from the start last year, who knows?

I am just tired of the successful coaches from other teams coming in and assuming too much responsibility. If he comes in to be coach and coach only, then OK.

 

[servumtuum]

Another possible component I'm wondering about is the dynamic that will be operating between whoever the new HC might be and Snyder. I know, now that we've got Allen, there will be to some extent a buffer between the HC and Snyder, certainly more than there was with Vinny, but it seems to me that-as impressed as he seems to be with "Big" names-Snyder would be somewhat less likely to fall back into trying to micromanage the team himself if the HC carried some name-recognition clout with him

 

[Neophyte]

We're all over the map here

Indeed. Seriously all over.

First of all, getting someone 'hungry and new' brings along with it the possibility of total failure. Say we bring in Russ Grimm. Yeah - there would be a certain appeal to that. But there's also the possibility he'd be in way over his head and be just as erratic and ineffective as Jim Zorn has been. Finding a successful head coach in the NFL is a lot like finding a franchise QB. You're as liable to stumble onto one as deliberately find one. Just look at how many 'can't lose' prospects from dominant college football programs have utterly failed as NFL head coaches. And how many 'coordinators of the year' from NFL teams get head coaching gigs, but can't keep them. Lets be serious - no one is going to oppose 'finding the next Joe Gibbs' - the problem is, you've got to find him You all prepared to go through 2 or 3 more Jim Zorns before we strike gold? I don't think so.

Very true. A franchise QB makes a huge difference. Just look at Norv these days. He is suddenly a winning machine in his third go around at SD and the big difference I can see is that he has a franchise QB to work with. Of course, he also has an All Pro TE and an All World RB. Much like he had in Dallas when he was the Coordinator everyone feared.

I think characterizing Shanahan as a 'retread' is off base frankly. As someone astutely pointed out, there were a lot of years of John Elway - but it took Shanahan to get them a Super Bowl win with him. The guy knows how to coach. A lot of the negatives associated with Shanahan rise from the fact that Denver dumped him. But we all know, sometimes coaches (no matter how good) just run their course with a franchise. I think that was the case with Denver. And I suspect a few years removed from being 'the guy' for an NFL team results in its own kind of hunger. If Shanahan does get the gig, he's going to have something to prove and his reputation will be on the line. In some ways, he'd have more pressure on him than a rookie NFL coach - because the last job he had, he lost, and now has to show that was a mistake. The difference is, unlike our current head coach, a guy like Shanahan knows all about those kinds of pressures and can handle them.

All those things are true, Boone. And my problem with Shanahan is not the coaching part. It is the talent evaluation part. Someone else built the team he won two Super Bowls with, most of it anyway. He doesn't see it that way though and will want to be the guy as far as picking the talent is concerned. Denver's record in Shanahan's last 3 years is the result of him having control over personnel. He picked Plummer to be Elway's replacement and didn't get it done with him. Then he picked Cutler to take over and Cutler showed zero improvement in his years with Denver.

I would also point out that I don't think Mike will feel more pressure to get it done then Gibbs did and it didn't help Gibbs pull it out. In the end, I think talent evaluation is what did Joe in too.

Not to say he can't be successful here. Maybe he can and, like I said, of the former Head Coaches out there I think he is best available. Certainly the best for Washington with his run heavy version of the WCO. I actually think his offense would fit our current personnel pretty well.

Finally - we're all missing one point. There may be better coaches than Shanahan out there - a few anyway. But they don't want to come to DC, and for good reason. Count me as one who believes we'd be extremely fortunate to get a coach of Shanahan's ability and experience, given who and where the Redskins are, and our current ownership.

This is incredibly valid and probably a bigger point then most of us know. By all reports, Spags turned us down to go back to being a DC in NY and then took the Rams job where there were all sorts of issues including a seriously ugly ownership question. How bad are the Skins really for a guy to turn us down but take the Rams job?

 

[Boone]

I am increasingly convinced that Joe Gibbs didn't have the authority during his 2nd gig that many of us assumed he did. I'm not saying he wasn't pulling the trigger to a large extent (his preference for Brunell and how emphatically he made that choice are an example). But in terms of shopping for groceries, I'm not sure Gibbs was calling those shots. I hope I am right in my belief that we are only seeing the beginning of the changes that are coming. Bruce Allen wouldn't be here if he wasn't going to have nearly total control of things - I believe that. And his rep is one of pulling in and surrounding himself with very talented individuals. I think that if the Shanahan rumors are true, that's just the beginning of that process. I don't think we'll be able to judge the sum-total impact of what's going on until we see how the org is restructured.

 

[beamish]

- would love to have russ grimm here, but much like cowher, i don't think he would be able to stand danny.

- regarding shanahan the talent evaluator, as best as i can recall, he DID construct those super bowl championship teams -- smelway wouldn't be sporting any shiny hardware without shanny and tyrell davis. once horsemug retired, bowlen lost that sense of urgency to spend big bucks, shany was left to rebuild through the draft and some of those picks didn't pan out. that's my recollection anyway.

- i believe shanahan is better than a good coach, i believe he's a great coach, i'm just worried that his time has also passed much like St. Joe.

 

[Henry]

winning the AFC West isnt that impressive IMO. and to only win once when the divisions has had the names like Ryan Leaf, Trent "Concussion" Green, and Al Davis in it doesnt really impress me at all.

Ryan Leaf was QB of the Chargers for a grand total of one season during that span. For eight of those ten years the Chargers had Drew Brees of Philip Rivers under center. The Chargers have been one of the most talented teams in the NFL over the past five years.

From 1999-2002 the Gruden-built Raiders were still a force in the league. It wasn't until after Gruden left and the Raiders went to the Superbowl in 2002 that Davis completely and irrevocably lost his mind.

Say what you will about Trent Green, but he and the Vermeil-coached Chiefs had the #1 offense in the league in either yards or points for four straight years, from 2002-2005.

The AFC West has fallen apart over the past three years, but before then it was actually pretty strong. It's not like the NFC East has been some great powerhouse over the past ten years. Our division was pretty much across-the-board terrible from 1999-2004.

Winning with Elway, Sharpe, Davis, Smith and co was pretty easy. John was a GREAT QB and was on a mission that first year to get his title. and then after that it just happened all over. Shan did coach them and Im sure he did a good job but as soon as Ol Horsey left he didnt really do much.

All coaches look smarter when they have a HOF QB at their disposal, but not all coaches win Superbowls with them. Holmgren only won one SB with Favre. Shula never won one with Marino. Dungy only won one with Manning. Reid has never won one with McNabb. I think you sell a coach short when you suggest it's easy to win back-to-back superbowls under any circumstance.

Again, I'm not saying Shanahan's a great coach. I've always thought he was a bit over-rated. But let's not get carried away with downplaying his accomplishments. Whatever you or I think about him he's an established presence in this league who's opinions carry some weight, and who, with the help of a solid GM may ... MAY ... be able to bring some legitimacy back to this Redskins in a way that only Gibbs has been able to do since Snyder bought the team.

Bottom line is whomever we pick I will still remain highly skeptical until we actually put together a team that consistently doesn't suck.

 

[Lanky Livingston]

Raiders went to the SB in 2002.
Posted via BGO Mobile Device

 

[Sarge]

I am increasingly convinced that Joe Gibbs didn't have the authority during his 2nd gig that many of us assumed he did. I'm not saying he wasn't pulling the trigger to a large extent (his preference for Brunell and how emphatically he made that choice are an example). But in terms of shopping for groceries, I'm not sure Gibbs was calling those shots. I hope I am right in my belief that we are only seeing the beginning of the changes that are coming. Bruce Allen wouldn't be here if he wasn't going to have nearly total control of things - I believe that. And his rep is one of pulling in and surrounding himself with very talented individuals. I think that if the Shanahan rumors are true, that's just the beginning of that process. I don't think we'll be able to judge the sum-total impact of what's going on until we see how the org is restructured.

I've said that all along Boone. There's no way, NO WAY that two men who built their fame and fortune with a pioneering O-Line didn't address that problem during their return.

After all, there were cool receivers to be had...............

 

[Billfishead]

I've had mixed feelings concerning Shanahan. Part of me thinks that he wouldn't have been successful without Elway. On the other hand, he has produced excellent running games, with outstanding O-lines with many different running backs. His coaching ability seems to far out way his ability to be both a GM/Coach.
If we bring in talent evaluation help, in addition to Shanahan, I think we could be in great shape for years to come.

 

[Henry]

you're kidding here, right? You think the AFC West was stronger then then NFC East? Really? Because living out here in SD I dont even think you could get a Chargers fan to agree with that.

The NFC East was a joke before Parcells, Gibbs and Coughlin showed up. An absolute joke. My point was not that the AFC West was a great division. Just that let's not pretend our terrible record over the last decade was due to the fact that we had to play a lot of tough teams ourselves.

Most divisions don't have a perennial 12-win team in them. The Colts ... the Pats ... maybe the Steelers ... that's about it. The rest of the time teams go up and down and divisions have good years and bad years. The AFC West is one of those divisions. Just like ours. Again, I never said Shanahan was a great coach, but if he can put up 6 winnings and only 2 losing seasons in the AFC West over ten years, he could do it here. And that would at least be better than we've been. A lot better, actually.

 

[Henry]

Ok, this is getting silly. I'm finding myself talking about Mike Shanahan far more than I really wish to. I don't really think all that much of the guy. But I suppose I should follow the course of this odd tangent to the end.

8-8 wins the AFC West.

8-8 gets you fourth place in the NFC East.

Which is why Shanahan got fired. The guy isn't a top-notch coach.

But citing one season out of a decade of seasons doesn't make much of a point. Though your example is consistent with my statements of 'the AFC West has fallen apart over the past three years' and 'teams go up and down and divisions have good years and bad years.'

I dont think its about Shan with us now but more that you are trying to state that the AFC West is some tuff div when its clearly not. When you play teams like the Chefs, Donkeys and Faiders 6 times in a year you are going to have a decent record. You come in to our div and play the Bums, Gnats and Iggles 6 times it isnt nearly as easy.

Over the course of the past decade, there were absolutely times when playing our division was easier. Hell, in 2004 we had three 6-10 teams.

If you want to argue that the NFC East is better now, I completely agree.

 

[The Burgundy Ghost]

I'm not a big fan of Shanahan for the most part.

But, my hope is that if he does come here, he will look at the O-line as a priority.

I will give him credit that he and his FO addressed the O-line frequently in Denver and built a line tio run his scheme and win with RBs like Davis, Gary, Droughns, Bell, Portis.

Most of these guys (with exceptions to Davis and Portis) would never crack 1,000yds in a season.

Now will his Zone schemes/smaller linemen work in the NFCE?
I'm not sure. But many people though Andy Reids mostly pass WCO would fail miserably in the NFCE at one time as well.......