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The Biggest Disconnect , the team and fans or the team and Reality?

youre reaching way too hard in my opinion to say he was a Dolphin last year when he was barely even on the practice squad. He never played a single down with the team!!

And this is supposed to prove he's the same calibre as a guy who did make a team and did play downs for it?

and the fact that Austin had 3 mediocre years before he "broke out" means nothing to you because he "is a #1".

No. But I doubt the validity of comparing reception averages between a #2 and a #1 WR.

we had a QB nightmare. First our coaches lose faith in one of them and then Grossman becomes the other one.

First of all, it's 'have' not 'had.' :)

And second of all, it's a coaching nightmare, not a QB one.



You know what, I don't like arguing about how not great our players are. If you guys want to be optimistic, go ahead. That's not a terrible thing.
 
Shanahan's presser supports Henry somewhat:

RedskinsInsider Redskins Insider
Shanahan also said Ryan Torain won't return as No. 1 back but should have chance to compete for that spot
 
Shanahan's presser supports Henry somewhat:

RedskinsInsider Redskins Insider
Shanahan also said Ryan Torain won't return as No. 1 back but should have chance to compete for that spot

That may mean nothing more than that the aren't sure whether they're bringing back CP or not versus a real assessment of Torain's skills.
 
I would hope it means that there is no clear no. 1 running back at this point and that it will be an open competition.
 
Which (I think) is what Henry was saying. Not that Torain wasn't impressive, but that his expectations as an UDFA were so low that we may be thinking he played better than he did. Had he had a breakout stud season, I would imagine Shanahan would have entertained the possibility of naming him the starter. He had a good season, not a great one. So he gets to fight for his position. AS HE SHOULD.

Henry is just saying, I think, that we should be pleased with Torain, but it's not like we found the next Clinton Portis. He is a good, not great player who can hold the position down reasonably well for us.

Good for us. Just don't get carried away.
 
I completely agree, what im most worried about is what I call Kemo syndrome, last offseason going against Rabach, Kemo looked like the answer at NT, we quickly found out this was not the case but stuck with him anyway.

Im worried that lick and monty (who are decent and solid backups) will get put in as starters because they were better than the guys they replaced, but they still arent great starters. same with armstrong, hes a great #3 a solid to decent #2 but I doubt hed be a good #1. we need to proceed as if its a complete rebuild otherwise we will end up "just good enough" and thats not good enough anymore.
 
I completely agree, what im most worried about is what I call Kemo syndrome, last offseason going against Rabach, Kemo looked like the answer at NT, we quickly found out this was not the case but stuck with him anyway.

Im worried that lick and monty (who are decent and solid backups) will get put in as starters because they were better than the guys they replaced, but they still arent great starters. same with armstrong, hes a great #3 a solid to decent #2 but I doubt hed be a good #1. we need to proceed as if its a complete rebuild otherwise we will end up "just good enough" and thats not good enough anymore.

We don't have enough picks for a complete rebuild. Shanny is going to have to decide if Lichty and Monty are serviceable until we get good enough to win, or if they are must-replace now.

I have a feeling we will be concentrating more on defense this off season to keep the 3-4 going.
 
and that makes me sad, basically adding another year to our suffereing because of ego.

Lick and monty are decent/serviceable in short bursts but neither showed to be a long term solution. I agree we will need to grab some free agents either way, im just hoping we grab the right ones.
 
Goaldeje, you are wise.

That is what I am saying. :)
 
Hmm conflicting messages and actions, being told by our supposed multiple SB winning HOF coach that the team is good and can be competitive wouldnt have had anything to do with the expectations? or signing a multiple probowl QB and then bragging him up? what about shoring up the Oline by drafting and letting shanny pick his own Oline for the interior? I suppose thats not at all a reason for fans to get back on the bandwagon?

There are fans who have a disconnect with reality but thats because the team plays on our emotions, we dont WANT to be ****ty we WANT to be good.

The truth is some of us have been lied to so often that we are just tired of it all.


That first paragraph is a rambling, incoherant mess and I'm not even going to attempt to deciper it.

But I do want address the concept that you seem to be laboring under the mistaken impression that Shanahan owes the fans the "truth" if and when you think they deserve it. And more importantly, you feel victimized or duped when he doesn't comply with your wants and needs! Ergo, if he's not going to tell you the truth, he must be telling lies.

This smacks of some type of anxiety disorder.

He's not beholden to you. He only has one boss and it's not you. Now, for the sake of public appearances, he may give lip service to the importance of the fans for obvious reasons but that doesn't mean he's obligated to share a damn thing with you.

You don't get to see his cards. You don't get to chose his cards. You don't get to play his cards and you certainly don't get to chose his words. Come to think of it,... I'm willing to bet there isn't even a suggestion box at Redskins Park but I could be wrong; I've never been there.

Do you ever watch Shanahan's press conferences? They're often hard to watch. Time and time again, a different reporter will ask the same question and Shanahan will contort to give them something and tell them nothing. Not because he's hell bent on lying to the world but because he's intensely guarded. That's just who he is. He's not going to give anything away that give someone (anyone) an advantage over him.

Why is this hard to understand?
 
the incoherent mess is easy to understand for anyone who reads at more than a grade 3 level. it was a response and needs to be read that way. someone stated that I should have said the fans have such a disconnect with reality as if that somehow excuses the mess that was made this year, I set that straight.

if anything most fans around here are knowledgable enough not to fall for BS , but when someone with the credentials that shannahan brought here flat out bull****s us, its hard not to fall for it when its something we all wanted to hear.

I am constantly amused when someone says garbage like " The team doesnt owe you an explanation" or " the coach doesnt tell the truth because thats the way he is" as if that means anything. Guess what its 2010 not 1940, people question, and if you have been a fan for longer than 5 years, you would know that we have gone through very similiar situations before, so some of us are far more likely to question. more importantly, the gap between coaches and fans information wise is almost nil , aside from scouting reports and broken down film, the internet has removed that barrier, its also made it almost impossible to keep a secret. Shannahan needs to learn that lying isnt ok just because you get paid 7 million. he thinks he is gaining an advantage, thats clear, its also clear that if he is, its not much of one.

I have news for you even up to the nineties things could be swept under the rug, but this is the information age, and if you think Coaches being openly dishonest is gonna fly in the nations capital anymore? you are dead wrong.

every time he makes a mistake, tells a lie, twists the truth, someone is gonna call him on it, even if you want to put your head in the sand , that doesnt mean anyone else is going to.

YOUR attitude seems a lot like Snyder, feed the fans enough crap to keep selling jerseys, be just good enough to keep the teams value high, dont bother to tell us the truth because the team doesnt OWE us the truth.

I dont get to play the cards, mores the pity, I know at least 5-6 people on this forum who I would trust more right now to run this team than the people who are doing so. Thus far Shannahan has shown me that he regularly allows his ego to override whats best for the team. Thats a huge nono and its what got his ass kicked out of denver.

why is this so hard to understand?
 
So 2011 is the age of information entitlement as well as instant gratification? Is that it?

Do you feel entitled to know everything he's thinking, as he thinks it? Should he be up there every day telling the fans exactly what his plans are in advance? Who he plans to release. Who he plans to resign. Who he plans to target in free agency. Who he plans to draft.

Hell, why not post his playbook online so you can approve that as well!

You want it all out there, layed out for your personal consuption?

I'm just curious; is he AS HEAD COACH entitled to hold anything back?
 
That first paragraph is a rambling, incoherant mess and I'm not even going to attempt to deciper it.

But I do want address the concept that you seem to be laboring under the mistaken impression that Shanahan owes the fans the "truth" if and when you think they deserve it. And more importantly, you feel victimized or duped when he doesn't comply with your wants and needs! Ergo, if he's not going to tell you the truth, he must be telling lies.

This smacks of some type of anxiety disorder.

He's not beholden to you. He only has one boss and it's not you. Now, for the sake of public appearances, he may give lip service to the importance of the fans for obvious reasons but that doesn't mean he's obligated to share a damn thing with you.

You don't get to see his cards. You don't get to chose his cards. You don't get to play his cards and you certainly don't get to chose his words. Come to think of it,... I'm willing to bet there isn't even a suggestion box at Redskins Park but I could be wrong; I've never been there.

Do you ever watch Shanahan's press conferences? They're often hard to watch. Time and time again, a different reporter will ask the same question and Shanahan will contort to give them something and tell them nothing. Not because he's hell bent on lying to the world but because he's intensely guarded. That's just who he is. He's not going to give anything away that give someone (anyone) an advantage over him.

Why is this hard to understand?


of course...another description for this would be paranoid...but I digress.

I'm onboard bubba! this is carte blanche to attack Shanahan and everything he does without riposte because...in standard blogese..."none of us know what he is thinking." can't be right...can't be wrong. since we don't know whether he is dissembling or not....can't use his statements as an authoritative source. not the best way to go through life - untrusted...oops...guarded - but...hey...we all create phantom threats at one time or another.

and we all know that coaching a professional football team demands secrecy proximate to...say.....handling nuclear weapons!

strawman arguments.
 
Ya Ryman count me out as well. One of the things that I like about this staff as opposed to many staffs before is just the kind of disinformation you dislike. It's driven me nuts how we used to show our cards time and time again and get burned for it by being outmaneuvered by another team. SO B.S. away Shanny, more power to ya in my book.

Then again I'm 5oo miles from D.C and the local frenzy so maybe that's part of it. I'm so disconnected it doesn't really matter.
 
Ya Ryman count me out as well. One of the things that I like about this staff as opposed to many staffs before is just the kind of disinformation you dislike. It's driven me nuts how we used to show our cards time and time again and get burned for it by being outmaneuvered by another team. SO B.S. away Shanny, more power to ya in my book.

Then again I'm 5oo miles from D.C and the local frenzy so maybe that's part of it. I'm so disconnected it doesn't really matter.

hey CT...let's think this through. every team has the tape. they know the overall scheme...they know the tells...they know plays being emphasized during a season.

what they don't know is the gameplan....which plays will be called when. most teams should know how adjustments will be made - it's inherent in the logic of move, counter-move....all depends on how quickly a staff percieves what is going on.

so the argument isn't binary. it isn't "pore out your soul and diagram your strategy and every play you intend to use on a chalkboard or pass nothing at all". there's some middle ground where a coach can speak to what everyone knows anyway - e.g., RG will start against the Gints; the safeties/cbs need to manage hand-offs better; we run a mix of man-to-man and cover two; we like to run to set up the pass; Torrain runs best off the perimeter...we need to get him more involved in North/South in the center of the line; it's all stuff anyone can see; we're gonna stick with the 3-4 (kinda like "we're shifting to the 3-4...no?). it's pointless to dissemble the obvious...it makes the coach look silly. it all comes out anyway with all the player/team analyses that are available to fans these days. having the coach ocassionally speak to these sorts of things...which give nothing away...serves the important function of bond building with the people who ultimately pay many of the bills.....the people coaches want to enlist as vocal support at games.....the people the owner wants to buy trinkets & condiments/drinks & seats at hefty prices. it's just a smarter way of doing PR and community building. there's a lot more going on than what happens on the field in this business.

the other part I'll mention only in passing since it's sure to inflame. Some of us actually search out info and want to be informed. others like being herded. all depends on personality type I guess.... :) .....
 
What the coach says or doesn't say is immaterial. If we win games Shanahan can say whatever he wants and it will be considered charming. If we continue to lose, he could hand out copies of his personal manifesto and we'd think he was an imbicile.

Just win and all of this goes away.
 
I see where you're coming from FS but I'm not buyin it. Those are all fringe benefits for fans but not having any of those things doesn't take away from the fan experience, at least it hasn't from my perspective. Good PR? Yea probably, but necessary for the success of a franchise that has sold out since 67 and can sell out during a 4-12 campaign led by Jim Zorn and can sell out during the Spurrier years? I guess I'm old school in this regard and just don't think what we feel matters too much and certainly don't think we need to know anything other than what we pick up as fan/amateur armchair analysts. I kinda miss the old days where we DIDN'T know every little thing about the teams.

Henry has it right...if we win it doesn't matter, if we lose EVERYTHING is under the microscope.
 
What the coach says or doesn't say is immaterial. If we win games Shanahan can say whatever he wants and it will be considered charming. If we continue to lose, he could hand out copies of his personal manifesto and we'd think he was an imbicile.

Just win and all of this goes away.

winning? details. details.......:blush:
 

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