The Biggest Disconnect , the team and fans or the team and Reality?

[Rymanofthenorth]

http://www.csnwashington.com/pages/redskinsvideo?PID=auqlQ5dJGPmezF4yv_b2tuW9tfGBaTji

Shannahan again stating that this team doesnt need a complete rebuild and justifiying it by saying he feels better about this team than he did about the 95 broncos lmao.




Ok maybe he isnt used to having actually knowledgable fans questioning some of his more ridiculous moves because I cannot fathom how he can think this team is still not in need of a massive rebuild. I have stated openly that Shanny has ONE more offseason, to show us something anything that shows progress, frankly he has done the opposite since hes been here.

HIS decision to move to a 3-4 necessitates a complete rebuild on defence with only 2 out of the front seven being starter quality and one of those is a 2 down player. If we go into another year with the same scheme and do not massively change the personnel on this defence I will simply stop watching as my team of over 26 years gets humiliated constantly. Im not alone. Losing because someone is better than you is bad enough, losing because your coach doesnt know what he is doing is far worse.

The Offence NEEDS a rebuild on the line and at receiver and Running back, we could get by with Mcrapp or Rex but Mcrapp doesnt fit and Rex isnt a long term starting option. given our performance this season how could anyone remotely think otherwise? If we dont have a large infusion of talent on Offence I dont see much improvement on the table.

I know this interview was meant to placate angry fans and give us some hope, but for many of us it has done the exact opposite. My dads favourite saying is " don't piss on my head and then tell me its raining." and thats how many of us feel now. FFS just be honest and open, you will have the screamers with unreal expectations who think every year is a superbowl year but most Redskins fans are well aware of what this team is and where we are at. All these interviews do is alienate the intelligent fans while giving ammo to the unrealistic koolaid drinkers.

Im honestly not sure if the team honestly doesnt realise how bad we are or if they think we are that stupid that they can continue to sell us on the " one player away" philosophy that has led us to this point. They either dont have a grasp on their own fanbase or on reality. Neither bodes well for US the fans.

 

[fansince62]

he's not going anywhere without a Quality QB. and that rules Rex out immediately.

he doesn't have much in the way of draft resources to work with. this leaves FA to fill a lot of the holes.

it might be the case that he is thinking "we aren't the dregs. this isn't blow it up time...it's 'improve' time." I agree that....on appearance....there is something funny in the water out at Redskin park. The separation between playing close and being able to win 10-12 games in a season is more than just a player tweak or two.....an athletically limited QB executing the portion of the scheme he is physically capable of aint going to cut it.

I would be interested in learning what he thinks is needed to win IN THE NFC EAST. the bar may be higher there than he is admitting.

 

[Boone]

There is no benefit in him saying 'we're blowing it up', even if in his mind, the team does need a major rebuild. All saying so would accomplish (beyond making fans 'feel better') would be to ensure we get far less for players we may ultimately choose to shop.

I think one thing we have to recognize about coaches like Gibbs and Shanahan is that they never say what they are really thinking.

Look at last year's draft - no one knew who we were picking until we picked. And if you recall, one of the first things Shanahan did upon arrival to DC was sent more than a few Redskins packing (if memory serves, 10 players were almost immediately released). If that's not 'rebuilding', I don't know what is. And I think we'll see more of that this offseason now that the coaches have had a full season to evaluate what they have.

So I guess what I'd argue is, lets pay more attention to what this staff does, and not as much on what they say.

 

[fansince62]

There is no benefit in him saying 'we're blowing it up', even if in his mind, the team does need a major rebuild. All saying so would accomplish (beyond making fans 'feel better') would be to ensure we get far less for players we may ultimately choose to shop.

I think one thing we have to recognize about coaches like Gibbs and Shanahan is that they never say what they are really thinking.

Look at last year's draft - no one knew who we were picking until we picked. And if you recall, one of the first things Shanahan did upon arrival to DC was sent more than a few Redskins packing (if memory serves, 10 players were almost immediately released). If that's not 'rebuilding', I don't know what is. And I think we'll see more of that this offseason now that the coaches have had a full season to evaluate what they have.

So I guess what I'd argue is, lets pay more attention to what this staff does, and not as much on what they say.

be careful amigo...since watching what they did this past season is not a confidence inspiring exercise.

but..in the spirit of the New Year....I can sit back and see what happens. It's his show for the next 2-3 years so we're here for the ride. I'm especially interested in what happens at QB...though I must confess for sometimes non-football reasons -> I feel like puking every time I watch Grossman drop back to pass. he does well at times...but he just looks so un-athletic and throws such a duck long ball that it's just hard to watch (kinda like watching JC for different reasons last year).

in the end....we are all assuming that they have a plan/strategy. ok...we'll see it unfold some more during the off-season.

 

[Rymanofthenorth]

There is no benefit in him saying 'we're blowing it up', even if in his mind, the team does need a major rebuild. All saying so would accomplish (beyond making fans 'feel better') would be to ensure we get far less for players we may ultimately choose to shop.

I think one thing we have to recognize about coaches like Gibbs and Shanahan is that they never say what they are really thinking.

Look at last year's draft - no one knew who we were picking until we picked. And if you recall, one of the first things Shanahan did upon arrival to DC was sent more than a few Redskins packing (if memory serves, 10 players were almost immediately released). If that's not 'rebuilding', I don't know what is. And I think we'll see more of that this offseason now that the coaches have had a full season to evaluate what they have.

So I guess what I'd argue is, lets pay more attention to what this staff does, and not as much on what they say.

I think most our players trade value is pretty much moot at this point Boone.
Our draft was a forgone conclusion when Williams was available, I think the only question was whether or not we would pull a saints and give the rams our draft for bradford (I would have been ok with that actually). I was also ok with the majority of our cuts, the only problem was we didnt replace them with younger guys with upside, we just found more old guys from somewhere else. thats not rebuilding iMHO. thats changing our old guys for new old guys.

Im with on watching to see what they do, but I will admit my confidence in these guys is more than shaken right now.

 

[stevenaa]

No coach is ever going to say a team needs a massive rebuild. It would lower team moral further, hurt the marketing of the team and lower trade values. There's absolutely nothing to gain other than placating a group of fans.

 

[servumtuum]

After watching numerous press conferences, interviews, and reading what others on other fan forums have said about him, I have pretty much concluded than Shanahan will tell you only what he wants to tell you, and only in the way he wants the information to be framed. This is simply how he operates. He plays everything close-to-the-vest and treats the dissemination of information in a "need-to-know" basis as he perceives it.

Regarding Boone's comment about "fan knowledge" versus how much attention to it should be paid goes, my inclination is in a direction of maybe listen to what they're talking about but ignore how they're saying it. In other words, make your moves and ignore the emotional reaction.

Regarding the thread title, ryman I would suggest that the disconnect with reality is also present in a lot of the fan response.

I also think stevenaa makes a very good point. If we are going to consider trading a player the last thing we need to do is anything that would reduce that player's trade value to a potential buyer-we want the other team to be willing to give up as much as we can-like a draft pick higher than might be expected-when the trade is made.

 

[Rymanofthenorth]

i agree serv , there is a large portion of our fanbase who listen to that interview and think, well we will be right back in it next year. I also agree that we dont want to hurt our players trade vlaue, but thats out the window now we have killed the trade value of all of our most valuable players lol.

 

[FuriousD]

Ryman: The biggest disconnect is fans and reality but you neglected to add that into the title, for your own reasons I'm sure. Never the less:

Ryman - gripping again > check
Ryman - Doesn't like Shanahan > check
Ryman - Doesn't like anything Shanahan has to say > check
Ryman - Doesn't like the 3-4 > check
Ryman - Nothing positive to say > check
Ryman - Nothing new to say > check

 

[fansince62]

Ryman: The biggest disconnect is fans and reality but you neglected to add that into the title, for your own reasons I'm sure. Never the less:

Ryman - gripping again > check
Ryman - Doesn't like Shanahan > check
Ryman - Doesn't like anything Shanahan has to say > check
Ryman - Doesn't like the 3-4 > check
Ryman - Nothing positive to say > check
Ryman - Nothing new to say > check

my my...attacking another poster! how original on your part!!!

while we're on the subject...I see nothing in positive in your post.

pot.kettle.black.

 

[Henry]

There is no benefit in him saying 'we're blowing it up', even if in his mind, the team does need a major rebuild. All saying so would accomplish (beyond making fans 'feel better') would be to ensure we get far less for players we may ultimately choose to shop.

I think one thing we have to recognize about coaches like Gibbs and Shanahan is that they never say what they are really thinking.

Look at last year's draft - no one knew who we were picking until we picked. And if you recall, one of the first things Shanahan did upon arrival to DC was sent more than a few Redskins packing (if memory serves, 10 players were almost immediately released). If that's not 'rebuilding', I don't know what is. And I think we'll see more of that this offseason now that the coaches have had a full season to evaluate what they have.

Turnover is not automatically rebuilding, Boone. This team has not gone through a true rebuild in over a decade. Rebuilding necessarily includes several large infusions of youth. One of the other first things Shanahan did upon arrival was trade away two draft picks for a 33 year-old QB. If that is rebuilding I don't know what is.

So I guess what I'd argue is, lets pay more attention to what this staff does, and not as much on what they say.

While I agree, we fans are once again forced to hope things are not as they seem, which has not really worked out for us lately. And sadly, we can no longer even add the rationalization that because THIS front office doesn't have 'that track record' our hopes might actually be justified this time.

You all will have to forgive me for being particularly cranky at this point. I can not tell you how furious I am about the embarrassment that is the McNabb Saga. Or the three-headed-geriatric-runningback experiment. Or the Joey Galloway experiment. Old players at key skill positions that did nothing to help us in the present while stunting our potential for the future. I am absolutely furious that somehow I, a 40-year-old nobody who's never taken a snap past the eighth grade, who has no more than a layman's ability to evaluate talent, that even I could see this coming from a mile away. I am no football guru by any means, but when I look at my old posts from the offseason questioning the moves the front office was making and seeing all my fears realized ... it burns me up to no end. These guys are supposed to know a lot more than me! Why didn't they? What the hell is going on over there?

I can't pay attention to what Shanahan says because if I do I'm gonna gnaw my freakin hands off. Based on this past offseason I have little faith in his ability to rebuild this team and little faith that he understands what is actually wrong with this team or has any clue how to fix it. I can't listen to him speak right now. Not right now. Maybe in a few months when we've put some distance between us and this awful, awful season and I can find some way to muster a little hope. Right now though, I'm fresh out. And I don't want to hear his voice for awhile if that's ok.

 

[Rymanofthenorth]

Ryman: The biggest disconnect is fans and reality but you neglected to add that into the title, for your own reasons I'm sure. Never the less:

Ryman - gripping again > check
Ryman - Doesn't like Shanahan > check
Ryman - Doesn't like anything Shanahan has to say > check
Ryman - Doesn't like the 3-4 > check
Ryman - Nothing positive to say > check
Ryman - Nothing new to say > check

Hmm conflicting messages and actions, being told by our supposed multiple SB winning HOF coach that the team is good and can be competitive wouldnt have had anything to do with the expectations? or signing a multiple probowl QB and then bragging him up? what about shoring up the Oline by drafting and letting shanny pick his own Oline for the interior? I suppose thats not at all a reason for fans to get back on the bandwagon?

There are fans who have a disconnect with reality but thats because the team plays on our emotions, we dont WANT to be ****ty we WANT to be good.

The truth is some of us have been lied to so often that we are just tired of it all.

Ryman- Right again
Ryman- tired of being lied to
Ryman- waiting for ACTIONS not words before getting excited


Henry, thats exactly how I feel, and for the record, the reason I respect your opinions even when they are at odds with my own, is that you actually think them through and back them up, I wish everyone would simply say what THEY think rather than the platitudes we hear from the media and team.

Boone, my first post here was about contradictions. what do you honestly think we can take from this season? what did we learn? are we going to rebuild for real or are we going to recycle again?

 

[fansince62]

Turnover is not automatically rebuilding, Boone. This team has not gone through a true rebuild in over a decade. Rebuilding necessarily includes several large infusions of youth. One of the other first things Shanahan did upon arrival was trade away two draft picks for a 33 year-old QB. If that is rebuilding I don't know what is.



While I agree, we fans are once again forced to hope things are not as they seem, which has not really worked out for us lately. And sadly, we can no longer even add the rationalization that because THIS front office doesn't have 'that track record' our hopes might actually be justified this time.

You all will have to forgive me for being particularly cranky at this point. I can not tell you how furious I am about the embarrassment that is the McNabb Saga. Or the three-headed-geriatric-runningback experiment. Or the Joey Galloway experiment. Old players at key skill positions that did nothing to help us in the present while stunting our potential for the future. I am absolutely furious that somehow I, a 40-year-old nobody who's never taken a snap past the eighth grade, who has no more than a layman's ability to evaluate talent, that even I could see this coming from a mile away. I am no football guru by any means, but when I look at my old posts from the offseason questioning the moves the front office was making and seeing all my fears realized ... it burns me up to no end. These guys are supposed to know a lot more than me! Why didn't they? What the hell is going on over there?

I can't pay attention to what Shanahan says because if I do I'm gonna gnaw my freakin hands off. Based on this past offseason I have little faith in his ability to rebuild this team and little faith that he understands what is actually wrong with this team or has any clue how to fix it. I can't listen to him speak right now. Not right now. Maybe in a few months when we've put some distance between us and this awful, awful season and I can find some way to muster a little hope. Right now though, I'm fresh out. And I don't want to hear his voice for awhile if that's ok.

Youch! settle down brotha! as the resident Skins cynic.....I'm somewhat optimistic abt the future with this team. we have no other options. we're stuck for another 2-3 years. it would be pure insanity to change yet again.

we have to ride this one out.

 

[Henry]

I don't want anyone fired or run out of town. Our franchise's reputation is in tatters right now and that would only make it worse. No, like you say we are going to have to ride this out. I do hope these guys figure it out, but whether or not they eventually do this year was a complete waste, and that's too bad.

 

[fansince62]

I don't want anyone fired or run out of town. Our franchise's reputation is in tatters right now and that would only make it worse. No, like you say we are going to have to ride this out. I do hope these guys figure it out, but whether or not they eventually do this year was a complete waste, and that's too bad.

yea.....it wasn't a total waste...some talent was found....but relative to what a reasonable person believes should have been accomplished...and throwing away all those draft picks for nothing......it "wasn't all it could be"

 

[Goaldeje]

yea.....it wasn't a total waste...some talent was found....but relative to what a reasonable person believes should have been accomplished...and throwing away all those draft picks for nothing......it "wasn't all it could be"

No, but when is it ever?

I think the biggest problem, in retrospect, was the unreasonable expectations the McNabb trade set up for us. Shanahan essentially told us all he was in a win-now mentality, and the problem with that is that we didn't win now. Sadly, had we simply gone with Rex, I think we could have won about the same number of games, maybe more, and saved the draft picks.

Shanahan vastly overrated McNabb's talent, the team's talent, or both.

None of those options are particularly reassuring.

 

[Lanky Livingston]

Do coaches/GMs ever literally say "We're going to blow this roster up." I don't think they do - it just sort of happens. And if people recall, there was a massive bloodletting last offseason. I expect more of that this offseason.

 

[Henry]

yea.....it wasn't a total waste...some talent was found....but relative to what a reasonable person believes should have been accomplished...and throwing away all those draft picks for nothing......it "wasn't all it could be"

Eh. You always find 'some' talent every year. Every team does. What matters is if you find more than you lose, or more than the other teams at your level. I think the answer to both of those questions was an emphatic 'no.'

 

[Lanky Livingston]

I think the Redskins *potentially* found a couple players to build an offense around in Armstrong and Torain. Torain needs to stay healthy, and Armstrong needs to get more consistent; but I can definitely see them developing into a nice 1-2 punch (assuming we get a QB that can get the ball there consistently).

 

[Henry]

Armstrong and Torain did very very well considering that they were undrafted free agents. But they are not players that you build a team around. They are nice complimentary players. I find it a little sad that we have to look to those two as indication that we found young talent for the future. I like them both, but in a rebuild year we should have a lot more and a lot better.